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About the "Deck Failing" Issue

AuthorMessage
Defender
Oct 16, 2014
189
I can't exactly remember where/when it was mention, but the issue of deck failing was brought up and the response was KI is currently trying to find a solution.

On that note I just wanted to mention that one of the reasons this happens often in W101 is because the game does not have any "Seek" cards. These cards search for a specific or general card and moves it to a new location (hand, deck, or discarded in this case).

Since Yugioh has many of these cards, here are some you can reference:
  • Pot of Greed
  • Graceful Charity
  • Creeping Darkness
  • Fairy of the Spring
  • Hidden Armory
  • Terraforming
  • Lighten the Load
  • Painful Decision
  • Reinforcement of the Army


Ex: Discard 1 Rank 10 spell, draw 2 Rank 5 spells.
  • Skeletal Pirate
  • Deer Knight
  • Lord of Night
  • Call of Khrulhu
  • Snack Attack (if at 5 pips)
  • Grim Reader (if at 5 pips)


Ex: Draw 1 charm.

  • (School)blade
  • Dragonblade
  • Bladestorm
  • Elemental Blade
  • Spirit Blade
  • Dark Pact
  • Supercharge

Survivor
Sep 26, 2021
3
I wonder how searchers could affect the game. It would obviously be more of a pvp thing, because in pve most decks are one row, or 7 cards so there's no chance for a deckfail.

But I like the concept and idea, and it could give some fascinating concepts to work with

One example I remember is how Dark Contract with the Gate was a d/d searcher spell that dealt 1000 damage to you every standby phase. It would be interesting to see something similar that dealt damage to pull a card. I'm not sure how this game would be affected by search power but it's certainly something I think the devs should experiment in.

A+ Student
Mar 31, 2009
1713
I know nothing about Yugioh, but that Pot of Greed was banned.

A+ Student
Mar 31, 2009
1713
In a more serious note. I do think that deck failing is an important mechanic. It adds an element of RNG that is beneficial to the game in my opinion. Your opponent not being able to play the card is incredibly useful. While, I don't think the entire game should be completely RNG, I do think there should be some small element to it though and not being able to draw your card is one of those ways. It does create "lows", but it also creates "highs" when it comes to playing the game. How often do you watch your Twitch Streamer and they're screaming "Oh no! They're going to X" and then they get so excited when the opponent is unable to do X" and they are able to counter and win. It's amazing when that happens for you, and obviously less so when it happens to you. Regardless, so long as it's equal across the schools, (which for the most part, I feel that it is). I feel that it should stay in some shape or form.

As far as John's proposed seek mechanic. I do feel like that would add another level of dimension and strategy to the game. Though it definitely would require significantly more programming time. I almost wonder if we could introduce spells that would summon to a spot similar how we have the "will-cast" on pets. Imagine a "Seek-cast" for example. Something that would let you like "draw the next two cards, pick one and discard the other" or something like that that would play into a little side board. I do like the aspect of adding interesting mechanics, utilities and effects to the game. I just worry about the balancing aspect (i.e. The Comment about Pot of Greed, being a Banned spell in Yougioh).

Defender
Oct 16, 2014
189
exp613 on Mar 21, 2022 wrote:
In a more serious note. I do think that deck failing is an important mechanic. It adds an element of RNG that is beneficial to the game in my opinion. Your opponent not being able to play the card is incredibly useful. While, I don't think the entire game should be completely RNG, I do think there should be some small element to it though and not being able to draw your card is one of those ways. It does create "lows", but it also creates "highs" when it comes to playing the game. How often do you watch your Twitch Streamer and they're screaming "Oh no! They're going to X" and then they get so excited when the opponent is unable to do X" and they are able to counter and win. It's amazing when that happens for you, and obviously less so when it happens to you. Regardless, so long as it's equal across the schools, (which for the most part, I feel that it is). I feel that it should stay in some shape or form.

As far as John's proposed seek mechanic. I do feel like that would add another level of dimension and strategy to the game. Though it definitely would require significantly more programming time. I almost wonder if we could introduce spells that would summon to a spot similar how we have the "will-cast" on pets. Imagine a "Seek-cast" for example. Something that would let you like "draw the next two cards, pick one and discard the other" or something like that that would play into a little side board. I do like the aspect of adding interesting mechanics, utilities and effects to the game. I just worry about the balancing aspect (i.e. The Comment about Pot of Greed, being a Banned spell in Yougioh).
You are correct. Every spell should not be available through seeking; the examples I gave were just example. Also you brought up a great topic: "Why is Pot of Greed banned?"

Someone already explained this better than I could, so I'll just quote that below (read before continuing). There 2 main differences from Yugioh that majorly affects if Pot of Greed would be banned in W101: drawing and deck thinning (search up if you don't know what this is).
  1. Yugioh has a minimum of 40 cards in the Main Deck while Wizard101 has a minimum of 1 card shared between the Main Deck and Side Deck.
  2. In Yugioh you cannot willingly discard a card from your hand. However in Wizard101 you can discard as many cards you want as long as they were not pulled during the same planning phase.
  3. In Yugioh you cannot willingly draw any amount of cards, only 1, while in Wizard101 you will have 7 cards at the start of your planning phase unless you have under 7 remaining in your Main Deck.
  4. Yugioh is very combo heavy, but in Wizard101 it is hard to pull off combos by yourself as you can only cast a single spell per turn. Stunning and Fizzling are the only ways to guarantee a combo. As well, Wizard101 has pips so you are limited by them.
  5. Due to the above, deck thinning is severely mitigated. Yugioh is more "I need these cards to win," while W101 is more "I need these cards to outplay my opponent.

In Yugioh, you could win on the first turn due to card drawing and deck thinning.

In Wizard101, you can't win on the first turn unless your opponent is very weak (lv.150 vs lv.30).

So I would say Pot of Greed would not be banned from Wizard101; the gameplay of Yugioh makes the card overpowered.

==========================================
(Post on StackExchange by corsiKa)

The simplest terms I can think to put it is:

Your deck requires 40 cards. Imagine you could have a 12 card deck - your 4 best cards, 3 copies each. You'd probably win every game against those 40-card deck losers, since you're always drawing your best cards and deploying them.

Every card you put in your deck makes you less likely to draw those game winning spells. So you replace them with some themed cards to bide your time until you DO draw into them. So it makes sense that a 15 card deck is weaker than a 12, and a 20 weaker than a 15. The important fact is that a 37 card deck is stronger than a 40.

Now imagine Pot of Greed just said "draw 1 card" instead of 2. What it would essentially do is let you get take your 40 card deck down to a 37, because every time you drew Pot of Greed, you would immediately exchange it for the next card.

So if it were draw 1 card, it would immediately be banned because it turns any deck from 40 into a 37 card deck. And if at draw 1 it's too powerful, then at draw 2 it must be even more powerful.

Another very simple way to put it is this: when it comes to making games fun, the key is to make interesting decisions. Pot of Greed has no interesting decision: you play it, you always benefit. It's not like a burn spell where you choose a monster to burn, or a monster that you choose "should I put this out now? Or wait for him to use up his monster kills..." Pot of Greed doesn't make games more fun. It makes them less fun.

Defender
Oct 16, 2014
189
Also these spells should be a limited amount and a one-time-use card (cannot reshuffle after use) so that the late game is more RNG focused.

Survivor
Aug 12, 2020
2
I think searchers and drawing cards with cost could be considered. Spells like Pot of Greed, Graceful Charity, etc are too powerful and probably shouldn't be added though.

Geographer
Sep 07, 2011
823
Deck management is an essential part of the game. For success in PvP, discard / draw / reshuffle and a bit of luck are the norm. You shouldn't have many fails in PvE unless you're carrying too many unnecessary cards. Most fights aren't going to last more than a few rounds, so keep it simple, but carry backups of your essentials, and some "just in case" treasure cards you can pull if needed. Deck segregation is useful in more complex boss fights, and essential in the arena.