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Show Me the Talents

1
AuthorMessage
Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
I have posted this before in the past, but I think it needs to be brought up again. When a pet is created, the future pet talents are created as well. The problem is we can not see those talents until we train them, and then they manifest. There is an inherent problem with this. It is frustrating beyond words to spend the time, gold, and crowns into the creation of a "good" pet, that randomly fails at mega with mana gift, crafty, etc. This is not only frustrating, but discourages additional hatches, from which players spend lots of time, and money. It would be much better for the players, and KI if we could see those future talents at the pets creation. Needless time and resources wouldn't be spent on a useless pet. I think this would encourage additional time and investment in the hatching process, rather than apathy, and anger. I would certainly spend more time and crowns with pets, and so would the members of my pet hatching group, and friends. I think it would be a win for the players, and KI as well. I can see no downside with this, although some argued weakly in the past that KI would lose money, but my research indicates their profits would increase. Show me the talents KI.

Survivor
Jun 28, 2015
2
I say no... Did your parents now what you would be when you grew up?....no......
That's the fun of it

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Your "research"? I'm sorry but asking your friends if they like the idea isn't research. It most definitely would lose them money in snack packs and energy elixirs. They might make up some with Hatching timer resets, but not nearly the same. The whole idea defeats pet hatching and training. You just want to remove all the work and get all the reward for nothing.

Explorer
Jul 20, 2014
63
This is an incredible idea! I have seen many variations of ideas as far as to improve the pet-hatching process, but this is by far the best. It doesn't require crowns, or gold. It gives no advantage to one group, over another group. It would help everyone not waste needless time, and energy on a failed hatch. I certainly agree that it would encourage more time and resources devoted to the hatching process. I think it would encourage everyone to participate more. I fully support this idea.

Survivor
Sep 26, 2013
35
jred1100 on Jul 10, 2015 wrote:
I say no... Did your parents now what you would be when you grew up?....no......
That's the fun of it
I disagree with your synopsis. Comparing the pet hatching formula to a parent/child relationship is akin to the apples and oranges comparison in mathematics. I'm also guessing from your reference to fun, that you are not an avid pet hatcher. If you were, you would understand the amount of time, resources, planning, skill, etc. that goes into this process. Under the best of circumstances, it requires a lot to make a good pet. His suggestion would help a lot of people not waste time, and resources on a lost venture. I fully support this suggestion, and think it would improve the pet process greatly.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
jred1100 on Jul 10, 2015 wrote:
I say no... Did your parents now what you would be when you grew up?....no......
That's the fun of it
I think your comparison is way off the mark, but I do appreciate your feedback.

Survivor
Sep 15, 2013
21
Eh I like it the way it is already. I like being surprised every time my pet gains a level. Seeing the talents beforehand would just take away the fun aspect of training a pet, just my opinion. Definitely a nice idea though.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
seethe42 on Jul 12, 2015 wrote:
Your "research"? I'm sorry but asking your friends if they like the idea isn't research. It most definitely would lose them money in snack packs and energy elixirs. They might make up some with Hatching timer resets, but not nearly the same. The whole idea defeats pet hatching and training. You just want to remove all the work and get all the reward for nothing.
You have no idea what research I did, you are simply guessing, and guessing wrong, as per usual in your posts. You say they would "definitely" lose money? You have no idea if they would lose or gain, thus you have once again made up your facts on a whim. Also please explain how this defeats pet hatching and training? It simply prevents people from wasting time and needless energy on a failed endeavor. You are also suggesting I want to to remove all work, and get all reward for nothing? Let me explain something very carefully. I work for everything I have, In-game and outside. I want absolutely nothing given to me, I prefer to earn it. Here In the game, my posts always reflect what's good for the game, not my own interests, unlike your own. I do not make up facts, or post blind opinions as facts.Do I need to cite some of your previous posts where you posted something that was factually wrong? Agree or disagree with my idea all you want, but don't post opinions as facts. It simply makes you look foolish. Also ,feel free to post a weak rebuttal, but I will no longer respond to ignorance.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
TigerLily073 on Jul 12, 2015 wrote:
Eh I like it the way it is already. I like being surprised every time my pet gains a level. Seeing the talents beforehand would just take away the fun aspect of training a pet, just my opinion. Definitely a nice idea though.
You do have a point there. You would lose the "surprise" aspect after each successive level gained. Would keeping it this way outweigh the problems associated at mega failures though? I lean toward solving the problem, but I concede your argument has validity.

Survivor
May 21, 2011
22
I think this is a great idea. To know that epic mega talent in the pool is the infallible I'm wanting to put on a specific pet and not a unicorn would make me very happy. I know a lot of time and effort was put into the talent order page, but not everyone has access to this nor has the knowledge how to read it. Personally, I find no fun in the "surprise" of a bad talent in pet training. It is tedious and boring to me. I would love to cut the time in half and spend the rest of the time working on my wizard and playing with my friends. I'm wagering a guess, but probably the majority of the people that use the test server are avid pet hatchers who set their "special" pets aside and wait for test to "see" the talents before wasting time, energy and crowns on a live fail. Seems better time could be spent there testing the actual test stuff. Good luck with your idea, I support it.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
MsStake on Jul 13, 2015 wrote:
I think this is a great idea. To know that epic mega talent in the pool is the infallible I'm wanting to put on a specific pet and not a unicorn would make me very happy. I know a lot of time and effort was put into the talent order page, but not everyone has access to this nor has the knowledge how to read it. Personally, I find no fun in the "surprise" of a bad talent in pet training. It is tedious and boring to me. I would love to cut the time in half and spend the rest of the time working on my wizard and playing with my friends. I'm wagering a guess, but probably the majority of the people that use the test server are avid pet hatchers who set their "special" pets aside and wait for test to "see" the talents before wasting time, energy and crowns on a live fail. Seems better time could be spent there testing the actual test stuff. Good luck with your idea, I support it.
A very good point! I don't use the test realm myself, but I have heard it's used as a hatching "tester" for many a pet aficionado. This time could be much better spent on testing specific areas of content, rather than devoted to an unofficial pet fail-safe.

Delver
Jun 29, 2011
213
Intrepidatius on Jul 12, 2015 wrote:
You have no idea what research I did, you are simply guessing, and guessing wrong, as per usual in your posts. You say they would "definitely" lose money? You have no idea if they would lose or gain, thus you have once again made up your facts on a whim. Also please explain how this defeats pet hatching and training? It simply prevents people from wasting time and needless energy on a failed endeavor. You are also suggesting I want to to remove all work, and get all reward for nothing? Let me explain something very carefully. I work for everything I have, In-game and outside. I want absolutely nothing given to me, I prefer to earn it. Here In the game, my posts always reflect what's good for the game, not my own interests, unlike your own. I do not make up facts, or post blind opinions as facts.Do I need to cite some of your previous posts where you posted something that was factually wrong? Agree or disagree with my idea all you want, but don't post opinions as facts. It simply makes you look foolish. Also ,feel free to post a weak rebuttal, but I will no longer respond to ignorance.
You told seethe42 they have no idea what research you've done regarding KI's profits and has guessed wrong, but you didn't support your argument by telling what exactly that research was. Could you please enlighten us?

Wolf Windrider

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Errol Everhart on Jul 14, 2015 wrote:
You told seethe42 they have no idea what research you've done regarding KI's profits and has guessed wrong, but you didn't support your argument by telling what exactly that research was. Could you please enlighten us?

Wolf Windrider
Certainly. I am a ranking member of a very large pet group in Wizard101. I am also affiliated with 2 other pet groups, and offer support in their endeavors. I am also a contributing editor to a Wizard support site, and submit advice to a "sister" site that I am not a member of, but am a frequent contributing guest. As you may or may not be aware, sites such as these draw members who are very passionate about their causes/gaming. For those people who live and breathe the stuff of Wizard101, pet functions are the major concern far and away, with pvp matters usually ranking a distant second. Of these sites, polls & opinions play a major part of activities. These polls are heavily dominated by pet considerations, and are debated frequently and fervently. Many suggestions are made, and they always draw a huge response. A recent post about "pet considerations" included the suggestion aforementioned here. It drew a quick response. 1147 were for it, citing various reasons, 108 were against, citing various reasons also. Please be aware the participants here are active paying members, and spend a great deal of time/crowns in the game. Whenever this subject has been brought up, it has garnered similar results. The data doesn't stop with polling however. Other games with similarities are also researched, and considered. Some of these are public, and financial studies are easy to obtain, others (like wizard) are not, but there are still ways to monitor fiscal success, such as media attention, support groups, awards, etc. Research doesn't stop there though. You have to know how to ask the "correct" questions, and submit a genuine "random sampling" for the most accurate results;to do so takes talent, practice, and proper training. Research still does not stop there. As the game environment grows/changes, so too must the questions be updated & resubmitted to stay accurate. The whole process is actually a lot more complex than questioning friends opinions, here and there. Thanks.

Geographer
Sep 07, 2011
823
I like the pet system as it is. I would be okay with ONE do-over level, earned by training not by payment, but knowing everything in advance seems too much.

This idea has been suggested before, and like many things that would make parts of the game much easier, it may be popular, but wouldn't be good for KI's business or for player participation. Uncertainty is part of the challenge, but also part of the fun.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Gemma Luna on Jul 14, 2015 wrote:
I like the pet system as it is. I would be okay with ONE do-over level, earned by training not by payment, but knowing everything in advance seems too much.

This idea has been suggested before, and like many things that would make parts of the game much easier, it may be popular, but wouldn't be good for KI's business or for player participation. Uncertainty is part of the challenge, but also part of the fun.
Ty for the feedback. The only thing I disagree with is " but wouldn't be good for KI's business or for player participation. " because the research myself, and others have done on this, clearly suggest the reverse. But, I will be the first to admit that even the best research is not a guarantee. I do believe from all the debate the pet process has initiated, that something needs to change to help the game. Many avid pet fans/trainers have already fled this game for greener pastures, and the exodus will continue unless things change for the better. "Show Me the Talents", may not be the best solution, but it is a proposal that tries to install a little more interest in what is, and can be a very tedious, and frustrating system that instills apathy, and does not inspire further participation. I have seen many other suggestions just as good, or better, but sadly KI has turned a deaf ear to all of them so far. As stated previously, good members have already left, more will continue to do so, unless certain needs are addressed, and no longer ignored.

Delver
Jul 15, 2011
288
I'd much rather see an elixir or a vendor with mechanics to remove an unwanted pet talent. Even if it drops a Mega pet back down to epic, I think it would get a lot of use. It keeps the current system in place and would give pet trainers a second chance at making an ideal pet. Of course, I think even after using such removal, that it wouldn't guarantee a trainer get the exact talent they wanted next.

Survivor
Sep 26, 2013
35
Tatiana Winterhear... on Jul 15, 2015 wrote:
I'd much rather see an elixir or a vendor with mechanics to remove an unwanted pet talent. Even if it drops a Mega pet back down to epic, I think it would get a lot of use. It keeps the current system in place and would give pet trainers a second chance at making an ideal pet. Of course, I think even after using such removal, that it wouldn't guarantee a trainer get the exact talent they wanted next.
I agree.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Intrepidatius on Jul 15, 2015 wrote:
Ty for the feedback. The only thing I disagree with is " but wouldn't be good for KI's business or for player participation. " because the research myself, and others have done on this, clearly suggest the reverse. But, I will be the first to admit that even the best research is not a guarantee. I do believe from all the debate the pet process has initiated, that something needs to change to help the game. Many avid pet fans/trainers have already fled this game for greener pastures, and the exodus will continue unless things change for the better. "Show Me the Talents", may not be the best solution, but it is a proposal that tries to install a little more interest in what is, and can be a very tedious, and frustrating system that instills apathy, and does not inspire further participation. I have seen many other suggestions just as good, or better, but sadly KI has turned a deaf ear to all of them so far. As stated previously, good members have already left, more will continue to do so, unless certain needs are addressed, and no longer ignored.
Again you cite invisible "research" from forum polls of phantom sites. You are basically asking kids, "Would you like chocolate cake for breakfast everyday?" Just because they say yes doesn't make it a good idea. People are not leaving the game because pet training/hatching is too difficult. There are many reasons players leave the game, that's not really one of them. Very few players devote their entire game time to pets like you imply.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Tatiana Winterhear... on Jul 15, 2015 wrote:
I'd much rather see an elixir or a vendor with mechanics to remove an unwanted pet talent. Even if it drops a Mega pet back down to epic, I think it would get a lot of use. It keeps the current system in place and would give pet trainers a second chance at making an ideal pet. Of course, I think even after using such removal, that it wouldn't guarantee a trainer get the exact talent they wanted next.
I like your idea as well. It keeps everything as-is, but allows for a "2nd chance". The only problem I see with it is that it gives yet another advantage to crowns users over those who cannot use them. I think the game is already way too dependent upon crowns. The crown suggestion would actually help me, because I mass purchase them very often; but as always, I side with what is healthy for the game, not my own personal interests. It is still a very good idea though.

Champion
Mar 27, 2011
405
Intrepidatius on Jul 14, 2015 wrote:
Certainly. I am a ranking member of a very large pet group in Wizard101. I am also affiliated with 2 other pet groups, and offer support in their endeavors. I am also a contributing editor to a Wizard support site, and submit advice to a "sister" site that I am not a member of, but am a frequent contributing guest. As you may or may not be aware, sites such as these draw members who are very passionate about their causes/gaming. For those people who live and breathe the stuff of Wizard101, pet functions are the major concern far and away, with pvp matters usually ranking a distant second. Of these sites, polls & opinions play a major part of activities. These polls are heavily dominated by pet considerations, and are debated frequently and fervently. Many suggestions are made, and they always draw a huge response. A recent post about "pet considerations" included the suggestion aforementioned here. It drew a quick response. 1147 were for it, citing various reasons, 108 were against, citing various reasons also. Please be aware the participants here are active paying members, and spend a great deal of time/crowns in the game. Whenever this subject has been brought up, it has garnered similar results. The data doesn't stop with polling however. Other games with similarities are also researched, and considered. Some of these are public, and financial studies are easy to obtain, others (like wizard) are not, but there are still ways to monitor fiscal success, such as media attention, support groups, awards, etc. Research doesn't stop there though. You have to know how to ask the "correct" questions, and submit a genuine "random sampling" for the most accurate results;to do so takes talent, practice, and proper training. Research still does not stop there. As the game environment grows/changes, so too must the questions be updated & resubmitted to stay accurate. The whole process is actually a lot more complex than questioning friends opinions, here and there. Thanks.
What site and what group? I'd be very interested to see that discussion, but searching didn't turn it up. It doesn't appear to be on any of the major fan sites with that title.

Thanks in advance.

Survivor
Jun 15, 2015
5
I like this, but would amend it to seeing only the mega talents.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
PatrichII on Jul 15, 2015 wrote:
I like this, but would amend it to seeing only the mega talents.
Interesting suggestion, and I think it has merit.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Dakota Death on Jul 15, 2015 wrote:
What site and what group? I'd be very interested to see that discussion, but searching didn't turn it up. It doesn't appear to be on any of the major fan sites with that title.

Thanks in advance.
Dakota, I have submitted answers to this twice now, including one that was very vague, just in case they don't want me to divulge certain places, or info. Neither has been posted. I'm afraid I cant help in that. Just continue your searches, the information is out there. Sorry.

Delver
Jul 15, 2011
288
Intrepidatius on Jul 15, 2015 wrote:
I like your idea as well. It keeps everything as-is, but allows for a "2nd chance". The only problem I see with it is that it gives yet another advantage to crowns users over those who cannot use them. I think the game is already way too dependent upon crowns. The crown suggestion would actually help me, because I mass purchase them very often; but as always, I side with what is healthy for the game, not my own personal interests. It is still a very good idea though.
The game's model uses a series of micro purchases. I'm fairly certain without a healthy and continuous stream of revenue from these micro purchases, this game would be a lot less interesting and have a lot less content. Considering it is free to play, requires no initial purchase, has an optional inexpensive subscription, I'd wager that most of their revenue stream is provided by the crown shop and the various game cards.

Anyways, there's an easy fix to my idea. If it's an elixir, make it craftable, but really annoying and complex like the celestia house. Or if it is a vendor, have the vendor add a quest that requires you to craft some really annoying and complex item. This would give everyone the opportunity to use the mechanic as well as encourage players to use the crown shop. Everyone wins.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Tatiana Winterhear... on Jul 16, 2015 wrote:
The game's model uses a series of micro purchases. I'm fairly certain without a healthy and continuous stream of revenue from these micro purchases, this game would be a lot less interesting and have a lot less content. Considering it is free to play, requires no initial purchase, has an optional inexpensive subscription, I'd wager that most of their revenue stream is provided by the crown shop and the various game cards.

Anyways, there's an easy fix to my idea. If it's an elixir, make it craftable, but really annoying and complex like the celestia house. Or if it is a vendor, have the vendor add a quest that requires you to craft some really annoying and complex item. This would give everyone the opportunity to use the mechanic as well as encourage players to use the crown shop. Everyone wins.
You have some very good, and creative ideas.

1