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Adjustments I'd like to see for Balance

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
I recently started playing Wizard 101 again and made yet another balance wizard for myself. I really enjoy this school as it is ideally suited for use of secondary school spells. The lack of prism is offset by the fact that you can attack with a secondary school... at least in the beginning. By the time I picked up power play, I had been reminded of all the pet peeves I have with this school. Here is my list of issues and proposals for adjustment:

1. Weakness: among the trainable charm spells, it stands alone at 90% accuracy in a sea of 100%. Why? The death equivalents plague and virulent plague are 100% accuracy so what's the big deal? It feels like this is a hold over from an earlier time in wizard 101 and I suggest that it be amended to 100% like all the other charm spells.

2. Power Play: I cannot understand why this spell would ever have been placed at 4 pips. Whenever a global spell is cast, there is a risk of helping your enemies, only with this spell is it a certainty. Unlike every other global this gets less helpful as your wizard matures. At a certain level, this spells is likely to ONLY help your enemies because you cannot exceed 100% power pip chance. The only possible scenario I can come up with is when questing in a large party but under those circumstances, ANY of the other school global spells would be more beneficial. My suggestion is to make it 2 pips and create a field that gives you two white pips every time you would get a power pip (leaves existing power pips in play). That makes this spell strategically interesting, useful when fighting the "bubble war", reduces the pain of elemental traps and blades, and gives balance the opportunity to make effective use of secondary school spells even at higher levels. Failing this, how about an elemental damage global that increases any elemental damage by 25%?

3. Spectral Minion: The cost of 4 pips to randomly summon any of the 3 pip minions from the elemental schools is problematic in many ways. Each of those minions is dramatically different to play with making it ridiculous to plan a deck around. I have two possible suggestions for this spell. The first is to make it an X spell like one of the myth minions where it is 2 pips for storm, 3 for the ice, and 4 for fire. If this doesn't work, then I would suggest an improved mander with an identical personality and substantially more health. Either of those would definitely be worth the 4 pips.

Continued next post...

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Continued from previous post...

4. Hydra: Really only useful against a tower shielding enemy. Against a creature with balance resistance (since balance doesn't have a prism), it is problematic. In order to blade and trap it without wasting pip slots it takes four rounds (balance blade and three hex), complicated by the fact that any attack will trigger the blade and a trap. The workaround is elemental blade and trap, but those both cost a pip each. Having higher power pip percentage doesn't help if you have to potentially waste the equivalent of up to six pips for what functions on your spell as a single blade and trap. Keep in mind that balance enemies make heavy use of elemental shield starting as early as Krokotopia so unlike minotaur, this spells doesn't help a balance bypass shields. While not a problem with chimera (because you can use armor pierce at that point), it dramatically limits usefulness. Spectral blast is far more suited against balance since you can balance blade, hex, hit, and repeat. Finally, damage per pip is only 95. Chimera and spectral blast are around 113. I have two suggestions for this spell. First, make each head do damage in line with its school, so 275 storm, 220 fire, and 183 ice. Second, consider either randomizing the head attack pattern or adjusting it so that your strongest head hits first.

Concluded in next post...

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Continued from previous post...

5. Elemental/Spirit Blade/Trap: I don't think these should cost any pips. I seriously doubt this will ever change since the majority of other schools train these outside of their specific blades/traps to stack damage and it is seen as a way to slow them down for those extra boosts. However, in every other case when a pip is added to a blade or trap, you either get significant damage boost (like feint) or it makes the blade/trap all enemies (windstorm, bladestorm, etc.). I understand that these give boosts to multiple schools at once (hence the cost of a pip) but from a balance perspective, these are used as one boost. Even in the case of spectral blast, one has to assume that if you use a second blade there is a second corresponding elemental shield waiting there for it. At a bare minimum, I'd like serious consideration to at least making the traps 0 pips as these are critical in providing a blade/trap/hit option for balance.

That's it, those are my suggestions. If anyone has questions or constructive criticisms, I'd be happy to entertain them. Thanks for reading.

Explorer
Aug 25, 2012
66
I would agree with number 1 the most..I never thought about how weakness has less accuracy than plague, but is weaker, in the sense that it only affects one target instead of all enemies.

Survivor
Jul 17, 2010
14
1. I agree! It is annoying when it fizzles, and Balance wizards don't normally get accuracy from gear so that 10% chance to fail is pretty much with you the whole time.

2. I like the idea of tri-damage bubble. An "elemental bubble" would be a great complement to our elemental blade and trap spells. When we are grouped with multiple elemental wizards, it would allow several of them to get a damage bonus instead of only one. Perhaps a "spirit bubble" variant could exist as well?

3. Minions in this game are garbage. Unless KingsIsle does some massive overhaul of how minions work, very few minions are ever worth using. They are an inferior substitute to another player. I am indifferent to this spell being changed because as minions currently are I still wouldn't be using it.

4. Yes! YES! I've always been disappointed by Hydra's lack of power. It's spirit "cousin" Chimera is much better because it deals 1020 total damage for 9 pips, but Hydra only does 570 damage for 6. Most Balance wizards just use Spectral Blast all the way until they get Chimera because hydra just isn't worth using. They could just add like 25-30 damage to each head to make it better.

5. Also a good point. Most high leveled Balance wizards have at or near 100% pip chance, which makes 1-pip cost spells like those sort of a waste. What if Balance wizards only got a 0-pip version of these spells from class or storyline quests? It would be like how Life wizards get Fairy and all other schools get Pixie on unicorn way. All other schools would learn them from Niles like they do now. Perhaps Niles could give Balance wizards the quests for the exclusive spells?

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Gamlic on Mar 30, 2014 wrote:
1. I agree! It is annoying when it fizzles, and Balance wizards don't normally get accuracy from gear so that 10% chance to fail is pretty much with you the whole time.

2. I like the idea of tri-damage bubble. An "elemental bubble" would be a great complement to our elemental blade and trap spells. When we are grouped with multiple elemental wizards, it would allow several of them to get a damage bonus instead of only one. Perhaps a "spirit bubble" variant could exist as well?

3. Minions in this game are garbage. Unless KingsIsle does some massive overhaul of how minions work, very few minions are ever worth using. They are an inferior substitute to another player. I am indifferent to this spell being changed because as minions currently are I still wouldn't be using it.

4. Yes! YES! I've always been disappointed by Hydra's lack of power. It's spirit "cousin" Chimera is much better because it deals 1020 total damage for 9 pips, but Hydra only does 570 damage for 6. Most Balance wizards just use Spectral Blast all the way until they get Chimera because hydra just isn't worth using. They could just add like 25-30 damage to each head to make it better.

5. Also a good point. Most high leveled Balance wizards have at or near 100% pip chance, which makes 1-pip cost spells like those sort of a waste. What if Balance wizards only got a 0-pip version of these spells from class or storyline quests? It would be like how Life wizards get Fairy and all other schools get Pixie on unicorn way. All other schools would learn them from Niles like they do now. Perhaps Niles could give Balance wizards the quests for the exclusive spells?
2. Two tri-bubbles could certainly work or perhaps only spirit... because it would be VERY advantageous for the spirit group considering life and death don't have a trained damage bubble and this would be a trainable spell in the balance tree. I would suggest that either of them be at 20% because that puts it perfectly in line with bladestorm where you have 1 pip for a storm and 2 for a global. It would also make balance look, well, more balanced at the beginning of the game. Aside from blades and traps at Niles, we don't get a spirit spell until Chimera. It would also be nice to have a little more help boosting chimera.

Having said that, I still prefer converting power pips to 2 white pips. It feels more in line with the original intent of this spell (pip manipulation) as well as the retired balance spell "dampen magic". Think about how it could affect some of the higher level boss fights... Limit everyone to 7 pips max? That's an interesting proposition. They wouldn't even have to change the name because you're making a power pip play. LOL. I suppose the treasure card version could have this effect plus 10% pip chance? At a bare minimum, the existing spell should cost no more than 2 pips.

3. I hear what you're saying about minions... however, I disagree. I use minions on every wizard (I have at least one of every school) I have. They aren't meant to be equivalent to a player when you consider the pip cost. Think about this... at three pips if your minion attacks a couple of times, takes some hits and then dies, was that not a great deferred investment of three pips? If the minion doesn't die you can convert it to either health or pips with one additional pip. How many pips is a 100% shield worth to you? Speaking from an ice perspective, the most shielding 3 pips can buy you is a 525 point frozen armor (at least without going to treasure cards). I tend to train buff minion and shield minion as well. Used strategically, those spells dramatically augment your minion... but I'm really veering off topic here so I'll stop there.

4. Being kind of a "purist", I have never liked how spectral blast does elemental damage consistent with the schools it deals damage from while hydra and chimera deal identical damage from 3 different schools. I would far prefer that both hydra and chimera deal damage consistent (or proportionately consistent) with the baseline damage of each school. Like I was saying, I only use hydra when fighting tower shields.

5. Hmm... that could work, potentially. The concern would be preventing balance from learning both for massive stack potential. The tools balance wizards have been given for fighting same school enemies are obnoxious to say the least. I know they are supposed to be the teamwork school, but I play everything solo first. Its just how I am.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Oh, Oh! I just had another idea for PowerPlay. Again, no matter how you slice it this should be a 2 pip spell and my preference would be for the power pip to 2 white pip conversion... but, what if instead of being +35% power pip chance, this was -35% power pip chance? This would provide the option for 2 things... namely a purpose for greater than 100% power pip chance gear and for strategic use at higher levels. While your party (and your balance in particular) can accelerate use of spells with pip manipulation like "donate pips" the enemies are now slowed down quite a bit (especially if if you use the -45% treasure card version). Just another suggestion...

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2737
1.) Weakness is 90%, because it is 0 pips. You are building pips while debuffing your opponent (that is the offset). Comparing Plague and Virulent Plague is not exactly equal, since they cost pips (and should be 100% accurate due to that cost). Plus, there's always Precision you could add....lol.

2.) I agree about the cost for Power Play. It is one of the most despised spells for me. However, I don't consider it as bad as you do. Power Play still has an mechanism to rob my opponent of the ability to do increased global damage, healing, of infection. The 4 pip cost is very steep for that minor advantage. I also believe your suggestion is overpowered. I agree with Power Play being 2 pips, but keeping the same effect or increasing Balance only damage. Being 2 pips and adding pips, like your suggestion, is not only a better option than Donate Pips or Empower, but you get Power Play at a much earlier level. Plus, it is a global spell, so it would technically have to give everyone that advantage.....and we don't solve the problem that we have with the increased Power Pip percentage (not providing something unique to Balance).

3.) I personally set my Balance deck up to support all minions I could possible generate. I also always try to cast that spell with Empowerment up. So if I do get a minion I can't currently use (like Water Elemental late in the fight), it becomes an instant heal spell with Sap Health (500 health for 3 pips).

4.) I understand what your saying about Hydra, but I think the issue/complaint is really an extension of item #5 (1 pip cost of boosters).

5.) Yup, Balance is paying the price for other schools, but the bright side is that besides maybe a Life Wizard....a Balance wizard is always going to have a spot in a group. It is one of the best schools for grouping. If those spells weren't trainable by other schools, I doubt they would be 1 pip.

https://www.wizard101.com/game/balance-school

Explorer
May 13, 2013
58
gtarhannon on Mar 24, 2014 wrote:
Continued from previous post...

5. Elemental/Spirit Blade/Trap: I don't think these should cost any pips. I seriously doubt this will ever change since the majority of other schools train these outside of their specific blades/traps to stack damage and it is seen as a way to slow them down for those extra boosts. However, in every other case when a pip is added to a blade or trap, you either get significant damage boost (like feint) or it makes the blade/trap all enemies (windstorm, bladestorm, etc.). I understand that these give boosts to multiple schools at once (hence the cost of a pip) but from a balance perspective, these are used as one boost. Even in the case of spectral blast, one has to assume that if you use a second blade there is a second corresponding elemental shield waiting there for it. At a bare minimum, I'd like serious consideration to at least making the traps 0 pips as these are critical in providing a blade/trap/hit option for balance.

That's it, those are my suggestions. If anyone has questions or constructive criticisms, I'd be happy to entertain them. Thanks for reading.
I can't exactly agree with you on this part. I agree that it should be 0 pips for both. That is in a BALANCEperspective. For other schools, I think they should keep it at one pip since they have their regular school blade(s) . Though I guess the elemental/spiritual blade and trap should be named differently in a balance's perspective.... Maybe balental blade for elemental and balintual blade for spiritual

Pokebow
Lvl22 (I'm getting there)

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Oran of Urz on Apr 3, 2014 wrote:
1.) Weakness is 90%, because it is 0 pips. You are building pips while debuffing your opponent (that is the offset). Comparing Plague and Virulent Plague is not exactly equal, since they cost pips (and should be 100% accurate due to that cost). Plus, there's always Precision you could add....lol.

2.) I agree about the cost for Power Play. It is one of the most despised spells for me. However, I don't consider it as bad as you do. Power Play still has an mechanism to rob my opponent of the ability to do increased global damage, healing, of infection. The 4 pip cost is very steep for that minor advantage. I also believe your suggestion is overpowered. I agree with Power Play being 2 pips, but keeping the same effect or increasing Balance only damage. Being 2 pips and adding pips, like your suggestion, is not only a better option than Donate Pips or Empower, but you get Power Play at a much earlier level. Plus, it is a global spell, so it would technically have to give everyone that advantage.....and we don't solve the problem that we have with the increased Power Pip percentage (not providing something unique to Balance).

3.) I personally set my Balance deck up to support all minions I could possible generate. I also always try to cast that spell with Empowerment up. So if I do get a minion I can't currently use (like Water Elemental late in the fight), it becomes an instant heal spell with Sap Health (500 health for 3 pips).

4.) I understand what your saying about Hydra, but I think the issue/complaint is really an extension of item #5 (1 pip cost of boosters).

5.) Yup, Balance is paying the price for other schools, but the bright side is that besides maybe a Life Wizard....a Balance wizard is always going to have a spot in a group. It is one of the best schools for grouping. If those spells weren't trainable by other schools, I doubt they would be 1 pip.

https://www.wizard101.com/game/balance-school
1. The problem I have with that theory is the inconsistency. If we expand this to also include trainable wards then the only other spell that is 90% accuracy is ice armor which doesn't make sense when frozen armor is 100%. Compound this with the well established phenomenon that adding a pip makes it an "all" spell but doesn't affect accuracy:

-black mantle & smokescreen
-storm trap & windstorm
-balance blade & bladestorm
-tower shield & legion shield
-precision & guidance
-Guiding Light & Brilliant light (technically 2 pips but they are the only healing tokens and no change in accuracy)

It makes no sense to me weakness alone should be 90% compared to plague at 100%.

2. I'm not certain from your response that you are understanding my suggestion. What I want is power pipconversion. Every time you would have gotten a power pip, I want you to get 2 white pips instead and white pips remain unchanged. This would limit you to 7 pip spells once all currently showing power pips have been used. My suggestion would only accelerate how fast out of school spells can be cast. It could help minimize the cost of elemental/spirit blades/traps when you have high power pip percentage on gear. Given the drawbacks (namely no spells above rank 7), this doesn't feel overpowered to me for 2 pips. However, I would be happy if the only change made was reducing the current spell from 4 pips to 2.

3. The best I can achieve is a generic setup for spectral minion. Having everything I would want for each type makes an unwieldy deck where I am discarding constantly and relying on reshuffle to get me through bad luck. I keep a sap health, but I'm not sure what empowerment buys you. Could you explain what you mean here?

4. The elemental blade/trap pip cost is annoying, but my real issue with hydra is the inconsistent damage per pip. I always have a problem with things like this. Case in point:

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/halstons-laboratory/why-is-ice-colossus-damage-so-low-27295

Now, I doubt it was because of my post but they did change it to be more consistent in a later update. That's what I'm looking for in hydra.

5. I don't disagree, I was mostly putting it out there and just whining. :D

Defender
Oct 10, 2010
103
gtarhannon on Mar 30, 2014 wrote:
Oh, Oh! I just had another idea for PowerPlay. Again, no matter how you slice it this should be a 2 pip spell and my preference would be for the power pip to 2 white pip conversion... but, what if instead of being +35% power pip chance, this was -35% power pip chance? This would provide the option for 2 things... namely a purpose for greater than 100% power pip chance gear and for strategic use at higher levels. While your party (and your balance in particular) can accelerate use of spells with pip manipulation like "donate pips" the enemies are now slowed down quite a bit (especially if if you use the -45% treasure card version). Just another suggestion...
gtarhannon.... Power Play is absolutely useless as you say, I agree wtih this completely.
At a minimum, it has to be two pips just to take down an Aura you don't want. The Death
aura was dropped down to 2 pips, I can see absolutely no reason why the Balance should
not be dropped to 2 pips also. It make sense to have the Life Aura up higher, because
they have "Fantastic" healing gear to start with. They have to have some limitations,
otherwise they would dominate in PvP, etc.

Here is my complaint, Life has Brown Spider, it has an Aura Boost of 25% for all LIfe
attack spells. Death has Red Ghost, which has three Boosting Aruas for all Death
attack spells. That leave Balance the only school in the game, without a
Boosting Aura of any type..... and that in itself seems unfair.

A school that has a massive disadvantage with it's Balance Blades and traps.
A school that has medium damage spells, and cannot attack like Fire or Storm.
Just, overall, it doesn't seem right.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
IcicleWar on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
gtarhannon.... Power Play is absolutely useless as you say, I agree wtih this completely.
At a minimum, it has to be two pips just to take down an Aura you don't want. The Death
aura was dropped down to 2 pips, I can see absolutely no reason why the Balance should
not be dropped to 2 pips also. It make sense to have the Life Aura up higher, because
they have "Fantastic" healing gear to start with. They have to have some limitations,
otherwise they would dominate in PvP, etc.

Here is my complaint, Life has Brown Spider, it has an Aura Boost of 25% for all LIfe
attack spells. Death has Red Ghost, which has three Boosting Aruas for all Death
attack spells. That leave Balance the only school in the game, without a
Boosting Aura of any type..... and that in itself seems unfair.

A school that has a massive disadvantage with it's Balance Blades and traps.
A school that has medium damage spells, and cannot attack like Fire or Storm.
Just, overall, it doesn't seem right.
I hear what you're saying but I don't like the idea of a balance damage specific global. There are so few shields that block balance damage and there is tremendous critical chance and gear damage boost available. I have suggested (above) perhaps a spirit global that boosts any spirit spell by between 20 and 25% for 2 pips. Since power play is trainable by other schools, this would give life and death a trainable option as well as make hydra and any spirit second school much more useful. This is decidedly not my preference, however. I really would like the global to stay somewhere in the spirit of pip manipulation and to that end, I'm proposing a power pip conversion global. This would simply convert power pips into 2 white pips allowing anyone in that global to cast second school spells faster and would inherently limit spells to 7 pips or below. For the record, I think that all globals should be 2 pips.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2737
gtarhannon on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
1. The problem I have with that theory is the inconsistency. If we expand this to also include trainable wards then the only other spell that is 90% accuracy is ice armor which doesn't make sense when frozen armor is 100%. Compound this with the well established phenomenon that adding a pip makes it an "all" spell but doesn't affect accuracy:

-black mantle & smokescreen
-storm trap & windstorm
-balance blade & bladestorm
-tower shield & legion shield
-precision & guidance
-Guiding Light & Brilliant light (technically 2 pips but they are the only healing tokens and no change in accuracy)

It makes no sense to me weakness alone should be 90% compared to plague at 100%.

2. I'm not certain from your response that you are understanding my suggestion. What I want is power pipconversion. Every time you would have gotten a power pip, I want you to get 2 white pips instead and white pips remain unchanged. This would limit you to 7 pip spells once all currently showing power pips have been used. My suggestion would only accelerate how fast out of school spells can be cast. It could help minimize the cost of elemental/spirit blades/traps when you have high power pip percentage on gear. Given the drawbacks (namely no spells above rank 7), this doesn't feel overpowered to me for 2 pips. However, I would be happy if the only change made was reducing the current spell from 4 pips to 2.

3. The best I can achieve is a generic setup for spectral minion. Having everything I would want for each type makes an unwieldy deck where I am discarding constantly and relying on reshuffle to get me through bad luck. I keep a sap health, but I'm not sure what empowerment buys you. Could you explain what you mean here?

4. The elemental blade/trap pip cost is annoying, but my real issue with hydra is the inconsistent damage per pip. I always have a problem with things like this. Case in point:

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/halstons-laboratory/why-is-ice-colossus-damage-so-low-27295

Now, I doubt it was because of my post but they did change it to be more consistent in a later update. That's what I'm looking for in hydra.

5. I don't disagree, I was mostly putting it out there and just whining. :D
2.) Yup, I misread your suggestion the first time. That proposal is not overpowered and would certainly provide some advantage to Balance (but then there is no point fixing item #5 then...lol).

3.) If you cast Spectral Minion while Empowerment is up, you get a free white pip for doing so (you are casting a four pip spell with Spectral Minion after all). This technique gives you a "free" white pip to quickly cast Sap Health if you need it on the next turn.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Oran of Urz on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
2.) Yup, I misread your suggestion the first time. That proposal is not overpowered and would certainly provide some advantage to Balance (but then there is no point fixing item #5 then...lol).

3.) If you cast Spectral Minion while Empowerment is up, you get a free white pip for doing so (you are casting a four pip spell with Spectral Minion after all). This technique gives you a "free" white pip to quickly cast Sap Health if you need it on the next turn.
2. I see you have discovered my master plan Mr. Bond... LOL.

3. Oh my. Ok, its time to dust off empowerment. I don't know if it ever changed, but the last time I used it I could have sworn it was only useful when you were hit by a spell of rank 4 or above. I haven't had this spell in my deck for a long, long time. :D

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Pokebow on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
I can't exactly agree with you on this part. I agree that it should be 0 pips for both. That is in a BALANCEperspective. For other schools, I think they should keep it at one pip since they have their regular school blade(s) . Though I guess the elemental/spiritual blade and trap should be named differently in a balance's perspective.... Maybe balental blade for elemental and balintual blade for spiritual

Pokebow
Lvl22 (I'm getting there)
Hey Pokebow. I didn't mean to ignore you... I somehow skipped over this post. I sort of like what you're saying, but, I'm always concerned about extra complexity. When you consider how KI implemented a different fairy vs. pixie, it implies that they would need to make 4 more spells for balance. The problem is with that is this: The elemental/spirit blades/traps are handed out by a trainer, not a mainline quest. It is one thing to give out different versions of a spell from a mandatory quest reward, but it is quite another to have a trainer show multiple versions of the same card.

I'm not aware of any spell that functions differently for one school than it does for another, and I'm not aware of a single trainer who shows one list of spells to one kind of school but a different list to another. The bottom line here is I just don't know how it would be reasonably implemented. To me, it feels like an all or nothing proposition and to be honest, I really doubt it will change. One of the advantages with my suggested re-write of power play, however, is that it helps to minimize the 1 pip cost of elemental and spirit blades and traps. Should KI move in that direction, I'd have far less heartburn about the pip cost.

Champion
Mar 19, 2009
429
1. I didn't know this issue existed. That is extremely unfair.
2. I hate Doom and Gloom and Power Play, and moderately dislike Sanctuary, but I don't think of Power Play as as much of an issue in worlds like Zafaria, Avalon, and Azteca, where it doesn't make a difference to the enemies as much, but only if you're like me and have a frustratingly low power pip chance.
3. I didn't read this as carefully as I should've, but your X pip solution sounds cool, but maybe a 3 pip spell doing the same thing would be OK. I personally don't use minions in boss duels or difficult street fights, as that messes up my plans.
4. I always think of Hydra as being no good, but I think it should stay as it is, and Kingsisle should ass another 6 Pip balance spell gained between levels 40 and 50, and I think the same way about Earthquake. These newer spells would be better. They would also not be learned from Alhazred or Cyrus.
5. This problem is the worst. They should all be 0 pip, I doubt very many people use all of the three classes.

Balance isn't as awesome as I thought it was.