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Dual School Mastery Amulets

AuthorMessage
Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
On quote: 'Exactly.You understand what many do not. Sub-classes and such would be a much healthier option for the game in my opinion'.

That sounded kinda supercilious, LOL. I'm sure it wasn't meant that way.

Another quote: 'Sub-classes would be a great addition to the game, but we're already too far away from the beginning to make adjustments such as those. It's like adding another primary school, it's too late.'

Sooooo the , , and schools, according to some people, are not considered to be sub-classes

* Crickets *

Point is, these sub-classes do exist, it's just that they can't quite, for the most part, keep up with the existing Exalted meta (especially ). Sure, let's Polymorph and lose all our resist for SIX turns, without being able to change it back. Sure, let's use a spell worth 3 power pips for 400-ish damage and a slightly lame aftereffect. (Here's to you, Shift spells).

Sure, let's use Fortify: -15% Incoming for 4 Rounds, that will be pierced, Nova'd or Critical'ed upon. The only auras that are worth training for Exalted PVP are Vengeance, Conviction, and Infallible.

Sure, let's use Shadow sentinel, that takes care of critical block, but increases backlash on heals (which totally defeats the purpose of it being a defensive spell).

Sure, let's use Shadow Seraph, that increases incoming damage by 25%, and provides a lousy 100HP absorb for each time you heal. (200 per heal spell rank is more like it, so Availing Hands = 800, while Minor Blessing = 0 or 100).

There really is next to no problem with adding mastery jewels for the utility spells such as Satyr, Earthquake, Loremaster, Shift , etc. It's not about uniqueness, it's about functionality.

If I have to devote a third of my training points to and get a mastery just to prevent the blade-stackers from sending me a 2000-6000 Damage DOT spell that can't be Triage'd off (cause still no TC), I should at least be able to heal it off efficiently.

It is not OP, it is logical.

Survivor
Mar 31, 2009
17
mastery amulets and sub classes.....

i personally think 4 is enough sub classes, when you get to exalted you barely even use too of the for, but i still do think moon and star are still needed (moon makes you quiet giddy in celestia and does help in cl, and star finished at fort rachias and was needed till fort rachias). the 4 sub classes at the moment are perfect the way they are and shouldn't get altered. as for mastery amulets... they are fine existing but now they are being used over what should be the line, if we added dual school mastery, the best 100 people on the boards will be some rich snobs. proper amulets and good honest skill would become obsolete. remember Grandmaster+ pick on master and below, picking on people for they dont have dual amulet would be birthed! dual amulet would turn into a god mode plus a way to check if you have enough money in your pockets to spare on crowns items

Defender
Nov 12, 2013
110
By sub-classes I meant branches off from the original school, but you people wouldn't know that since you never asked me what my cause was, but only assumed. People interpret things differently so take that in mind. My cause is for mastery jewels and against dual mastery school amulets. Intrepidatius's argument is, correct me if I'm wrong, against all forms of mastery and seeks their complete removal from the game, which in my opinion is nearly impossible.

Fine, if mastery was removed please tell how will myth and ice heal? They can't! The only way possible is to have a fully functional healing pet, but as you know not everyone has one to depend on. The reason they created the dorms is to give ideas for the improvement of the game. I don't see you giving any alternate ideas to mastery. I don't see you giving any spells to fill in the gaps of the schools. I only see you criticizing everyone else's ideas as if your way is superior to all others.

We are trying to move the game forward, removing mastery would be taking a huge step back, and no one (except you) wants that. I rest my case. A simple error does not make one ignorant, in fact it does just the opposite.

Delver
Jul 17, 2009
261
I love the idea of double school mastery amulets. I play by myself all the time, and that would come in handy. The best part is it's not needed to play, so if you won't like it you don't have to use it. For PVP's well, they can have a separate PVP area for those who use the double mastery amulet, and you can't access the regular PVP if you have it equipped.
I would love to have a mastery amulet and one of the other amulets that gives stats fused together at times too.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Arcanexo on Aug 22, 2015 wrote:
By sub-classes I meant branches off from the original school, but you people wouldn't know that since you never asked me what my cause was, but only assumed. People interpret things differently so take that in mind. My cause is for mastery jewels and against dual mastery school amulets. Intrepidatius's argument is, correct me if I'm wrong, against all forms of mastery and seeks their complete removal from the game, which in my opinion is nearly impossible.

Fine, if mastery was removed please tell how will myth and ice heal? They can't! The only way possible is to have a fully functional healing pet, but as you know not everyone has one to depend on. The reason they created the dorms is to give ideas for the improvement of the game. I don't see you giving any alternate ideas to mastery. I don't see you giving any spells to fill in the gaps of the schools. I only see you criticizing everyone else's ideas as if your way is superior to all others.

We are trying to move the game forward, removing mastery would be taking a huge step back, and no one (except you) wants that. I rest my case. A simple error does not make one ignorant, in fact it does just the opposite.
You still are not listening or understanding, it seems. You are championing a preference, something that you would like to see implemented, but that preference is unhealthy for the game. Anything that lessens a uniqueness of one class and gives it to another, weakens the game. Every class must stand on their own merits and weaknesses to survive. The more they rely on other wizard classes, the more blurred the lines between the classes become. Let me try and explain it differently so you can understand: If you think adding extra mastery is not a problem, then why stop there? Let's just make an all-mastery amulet, the wearer of which can use any spell from any school. By doing this, most group play would become obsolete, and this would spell doom for the game. It doesn't matter how many people like this idea vs. those who don't. The point I am trying to make to you, is that a simple preferential majority has often spelled doom for games, when that preference was realized. I have seen first-hand what makes mmorpg's work, and what does not, and this is an example of a idea(preference), that does the opposite of what's intended.
You also keep mentioning healing. I have soloed (mostly) every school to exalted, and heals were never part of my deck for any class. If you play/structure your wizard correctly in solo content, you don't need heals. I have never suggested that you, or anyone else who champions this cause, is not trying to move the game forward;I am trying to explain to you, and others who agree with you, that this idea will have the reverse effect. As for your comment about ideas, I have indeed suggested in several threads about specialty and sub-classes over the years. Gemma just suggested it here first. You also keep thinking wrongly this is my way, and that's not true. I champion what is healthy for the game, despite my preference on an issue. Lastly, opinions don't define ignorance, it's the lack of understanding the issue that does.

Mastermind
Mar 13, 2010
328
Just because you strongly believe something doesn't make it right. Just because you strongly want something doesn't make it good for the game. Just because you strongly dislike something doesn't make it wrong. Just because you think something was the worst decision ever doesn't mean it was bad for the game. Repeat this, guys, because everyone in this thread is taking their own opinionsas fact.

On to this particular thread.

There is nothing about this particular idea that could enhance the game in any way, in my opinion. Do players want it? Sure. That doesn't make it good for the game. In general, things that make gameplay easier are not good for the game. If everyone could walk around with the health of Ice, the healing abilities of Life and the hitting ability of Storm there'd be little to no challenge left to the game.

I admit that all of my characters except Storm have at least one mastery. None have been used regularly, ever. Life pulls out her death mastery for Shane Von Shane, Fire pulls out the life mastery only when she ends up in Team Up without a healer. Death and Balance will use their shared Life Mastery when they Jade to help heal, but that's rare.

To me, this is like removing cards from gear. Sure we want it. Not good for the game. You have to take the cons with the pros. You have to accept that your ability to heal yourself to full health with two pips means you have fewer hard-hitting attack spells. Your ability to one-hit kill anything means you better get lucky with power pips or you'll be dead before you get to hit. You have to take the shadow traps to get the benefits of Malistaire gear. (Yes, in that situation you can farm for different similar gear that comes with other cards, but farming.)

There's a huge push for ultra-customization, ultra-I-don't-need-to-play-this-MMORPG-as-a-multiplayer game, but if nobody needs to play with anyone else, there will be no game. Some have always soloed. It hasn't ever been everyone soloing.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
PaigeGoldenspear on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Just because you strongly believe something doesn't make it right. Just because you strongly want something doesn't make it good for the game. Just because you strongly dislike something doesn't make it wrong. Just because you think something was the worst decision ever doesn't mean it was bad for the game. Repeat this, guys, because everyone in this thread is taking their own opinionsas fact.

On to this particular thread.

There is nothing about this particular idea that could enhance the game in any way, in my opinion. Do players want it? Sure. That doesn't make it good for the game. In general, things that make gameplay easier are not good for the game. If everyone could walk around with the health of Ice, the healing abilities of Life and the hitting ability of Storm there'd be little to no challenge left to the game.

I admit that all of my characters except Storm have at least one mastery. None have been used regularly, ever. Life pulls out her death mastery for Shane Von Shane, Fire pulls out the life mastery only when she ends up in Team Up without a healer. Death and Balance will use their shared Life Mastery when they Jade to help heal, but that's rare.

To me, this is like removing cards from gear. Sure we want it. Not good for the game. You have to take the cons with the pros. You have to accept that your ability to heal yourself to full health with two pips means you have fewer hard-hitting attack spells. Your ability to one-hit kill anything means you better get lucky with power pips or you'll be dead before you get to hit. You have to take the shadow traps to get the benefits of Malistaire gear. (Yes, in that situation you can farm for different similar gear that comes with other cards, but farming.)

There's a huge push for ultra-customization, ultra-I-don't-need-to-play-this-MMORPG-as-a-multiplayer game, but if nobody needs to play with anyone else, there will be no game. Some have always soloed. It hasn't ever been everyone soloing.
Well said. You articulated far better than I did.

Geographer
Mar 12, 2013
923
It's possible that you could get dual school, or even 3-school mastery and it wouldn't break the game.

One way is through use of some rate limiting step, to raise the opportunity cost of casting off-school spells to where you need to budget your turns carefully to maximize the mastery aspect.

For example, imagine an All-Spirit mastery amulet that gives you Myth, Life, and Death mastery; but at the cost of having to spend a shadow pip in addition to the "mastery" pip cost for that spell.

This means that whenever your wizard (any school except Life, Myth, or Death) uses Satyr, it will cost 2 power pips instead of 4, but also cost a shadow pip. Same for when he or she uses earthquake, rebirth, scarecrow, or doom & gloom.

This would allow NEW amulets: an Elemental Mastery amulet, a Spirit Mastery amulet, a Moon, Sun, Star, etc.

On the flip side, it's possible that mastery amulets of any kind, close the door on schools such as Ice and Myth getting healing spells.

Imagine if mastery amulets never came to be. Life, of course, would be a popular school because its heals are almost all trained at levels 48 and below, and it can solo very well. Balance and Death would also be very strong choices, because they have healing spells as well as high health buffers and reasonable damage.

That leaves 4 schools which only get healing spells for themselves (Link/Power Link); or only after level 75; or none at all. They may simply be out of luck when it comes to soloing, or forced soloing for spell quests.

It is easy to see that without mastery amulets, players of those 4 schools would put a LOT of pressure on KI to create an exclusive Myth heal, or an Ice heal, or a better, earlier Storm heal, or a fire spell that heals others.

And they just might have gotten it. What a strange Spiralverse it could have been if at level 55, you pulled a myth heal out of Skabrok's loot bag, or an ice Heal over time X spell.

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
PaigeGoldenspear on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
Just because you strongly believe something doesn't make it right. Just because you strongly want something doesn't make it good for the game. Just because you strongly dislike something doesn't make it wrong. Just because you think something was the worst decision ever doesn't mean it was bad for the game. Repeat this, guys, because everyone in this thread is taking their own opinionsas fact.

On to this particular thread.

There is nothing about this particular idea that could enhance the game in any way, in my opinion. Do players want it? Sure. That doesn't make it good for the game. In general, things that make gameplay easier are not good for the game. If everyone could walk around with the health of Ice, the healing abilities of Life and the hitting ability of Storm there'd be little to no challenge left to the game.

I admit that all of my characters except Storm have at least one mastery. None have been used regularly, ever. Life pulls out her death mastery for Shane Von Shane, Fire pulls out the life mastery only when she ends up in Team Up without a healer. Death and Balance will use their shared Life Mastery when they Jade to help heal, but that's rare.

To me, this is like removing cards from gear. Sure we want it. Not good for the game. You have to take the cons with the pros. You have to accept that your ability to heal yourself to full health with two pips means you have fewer hard-hitting attack spells. Your ability to one-hit kill anything means you better get lucky with power pips or you'll be dead before you get to hit. You have to take the shadow traps to get the benefits of Malistaire gear. (Yes, in that situation you can farm for different similar gear that comes with other cards, but farming.)

There's a huge push for ultra-customization, ultra-I-don't-need-to-play-this-MMORPG-as-a-multiplayer game, but if nobody needs to play with anyone else, there will be no game. Some have always soloed. It hasn't ever been everyone soloing.
You make this your opening statement....

"because everyone in this thread is taking their own opinions as fact."

Then you turn around and do the exact thing you just described.

"Sure we want it. Not good for the game."
"In general, things that make gameplay easier are not good for the game."
"There is nothing about this particular idea that could enhance the game in any way, in my opinion."

Just thought I should point out you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing too.

Defender
Nov 12, 2013
110
Intrepidatius on Aug 23, 2015 wrote:
You still are not listening or understanding, it seems. You are championing a preference, something that you would like to see implemented, but that preference is unhealthy for the game. Anything that lessens a uniqueness of one class and gives it to another, weakens the game. Every class must stand on their own merits and weaknesses to survive. The more they rely on other wizard classes, the more blurred the lines between the classes become. Let me try and explain it differently so you can understand: If you think adding extra mastery is not a problem, then why stop there? Let's just make an all-mastery amulet, the wearer of which can use any spell from any school. By doing this, most group play would become obsolete, and this would spell doom for the game. It doesn't matter how many people like this idea vs. those who don't. The point I am trying to make to you, is that a simple preferential majority has often spelled doom for games, when that preference was realized. I have seen first-hand what makes mmorpg's work, and what does not, and this is an example of a idea(preference), that does the opposite of what's intended.
You also keep mentioning healing. I have soloed (mostly) every school to exalted, and heals were never part of my deck for any class. If you play/structure your wizard correctly in solo content, you don't need heals. I have never suggested that you, or anyone else who champions this cause, is not trying to move the game forward;I am trying to explain to you, and others who agree with you, that this idea will have the reverse effect. As for your comment about ideas, I have indeed suggested in several threads about specialty and sub-classes over the years. Gemma just suggested it here first. You also keep thinking wrongly this is my way, and that's not true. I champion what is healthy for the game, despite my preference on an issue. Lastly, opinions don't define ignorance, it's the lack of understanding the issue that does.
The reason that mastery exists is the lack of spells for the schools, each desperately needs the necessary support that is not provided. Over the years I have created numerous amounts of spells for each school, which give new elements that were not there before. If sub-classes were implemented it would require an immense amount of dedication and creativity, I would like to see its arrival but it's highly unlikely at this point; unless KI decides to rebuild the game entirely from scratch.

First of all it appears you are not hearing me correctly. I never stated I was in support of mastery and/or dual mastery amulets, I am in favor of mastery jewels. Second of all, whether you have mastery jewels or amulets, both are limited. In the amulets case you cannot learn spells past rank 6 and only those that require training points. In the jewels case you would most likely have a limited amounts of sockets, probably no more than 2.

All in all, I will always favor sub-classes more than mastery, but since mastery is currently in-game I try to further its development; not backtrack. It all depends on how much the creators want to work for it.

I am going to create a topic on sub-classes and I want you to post regarding your standpoint on the subject, since the idea seems interesting and intriguing.

Defender
Nov 12, 2013
110
Just so you guys know I made multi-heal spells for fire, death, and storm; with a self-heal for myth. I had no ideas for ice sadly. They are on this thread; you have to look closely.

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/the-dorms/advanced-spell-ideas-8ad6a4194e6cf2ba014e70241438121a

Mastermind
Mar 13, 2010
328
Mr Talon on Aug 24, 2015 wrote:
You make this your opening statement....

"because everyone in this thread is taking their own opinions as fact."

Then you turn around and do the exact thing you just described.

"Sure we want it. Not good for the game."
"In general, things that make gameplay easier are not good for the game."
"There is nothing about this particular idea that could enhance the game in any way, in my opinion."

Just thought I should point out you are doing exactly what you are accusing others of doing too.
No, I specifically say they're *my opinion*.

Unfortunately the chat box limits the number of characters one can type, so I didn't state "my opinion" each time. However, I give an example of what this particular implementation would do, and why *I think* it would be bad for the game.

Edited: It appears that you missed my entire point, regardless. My point was that the attitude in this thread - and in many of rhe sigfeation threada, honestly - is "Hey, I want this. It would be good for me" with no regard for whether the idea would enhance the game. This game. This UNIQUE game. Most of the ideas I see remove all of the uniqueness and anything that requires any thought, strategy or cooperation. I believe doing those things to games destroys them.

Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
Interesting. So far, I see that the overall approval rating of Multiple School Masteries is not exactly the open and shut case that I had expected. More support it than do not, for sure; however I can't fathom why this would seem like such a horrible change (if implemented) to some.
Yeah, we know that the school classes should stay separate. Truly, we do. Is this actually an issue? Past Celestia or so, Ravenwood spells are really only useful for their utility purposes, not so much for damage, with a few exceptions.

For those of you that somehow still disagree:

, , and do not have any native heals as of Exalted (minus Link / Power Link, and perhaps Shift if you're on the receiving end of it). For those of you that disliked the idea of Mastery Amulets in the first place, do you mean to tell me that you would have been fine with no Life Mastery whatsoever, forcing these schools to waste four turns to get a measly 860 HP base heal?

doesn't count for obvious reasons, although they don't have a true heal either; only drains.

All through Azteca, on my Balance, I used my Mastery and Hybrid gear (plus the Virulence aura later on) to get through bosses averaging 20,000+ health, not including the minion. (No, Chimera does NOT work effectively at 340 Damage per head unshielded and a staggering pip cost of 9, please spare me). This would not have been a viable strategy if Mastery Amulets did not exist.
It is quite obvious that, at the end of the day, despite your opinions to the contrary, the developers thought that it would be a better idea to introduce Mastery Amulets to the game than to leave them out. Period. Don't try to argue. Off-school spells are trainable for a reason (hint: to be trained), otherwise we would simply quest along like so many other games existing now, getting the spells that the trainer gave us and that would be that.

Mastery Jewels would be a great addition to the game, because the game was created with diversity and variety in mind.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
"It is quite obvious that, at the end of the day, despite your opinions to the contrary, the developers thought that it would be a better idea to introduce Mastery Amulets to the game than to leave them out. Period. Don't try to argue."-Exabytes

Therein lies the fatal flaw to your logic, and to many others opinions. A lot of people assume (incorrectly), that the creators of a game/product, always know what's best for it, and that is hardly the case. There are countless examples of games/company's doing the absolute worst things to their creations, and then having to retract, modify, etc. the damage caused by this implementation; they sometimes succeed in these endeavors, other times they do not. I can tell you from experience, that suggestions/implementations as these have never shown a positive impact in any game I am familiar with. Although seemingly innocuous at the time when implemented, they hasten the downfall of mmorpg's without question. If you have ever read, or talked with the creators of the once almighty Everquest, you would know what I am speaking of. I understand that some people like the idea of a dual-mastery, but what they don't understand is these "likes" come at a price. They hasten a games downfall. If implemented, would it kill Wiz101? I do not know. I do know it would certainly add a big piece of straw to the camels already encumbered back. I would rather efforts to improve the game focus on areas that haven't shown a detrimental effect, such as specialty classes, or such. I will concede one thing though: These suggestions would work for pvp; I see no problems with dual-mastery there, though a pvp overhaul would be better, but I don't see that happening. This is my last response to this post, I feel like I am beating the proverbial dead horse on this issue. Lastly consider this, I am not voicing a simple opinion based on likes/dislikes. I speak from direct knowledge/experience with this issue, and can tell you dual-mastery is a bad idea.

Survivor
Aug 21, 2015
14
Exabytes on Aug 27, 2015 wrote:
Interesting. So far, I see that the overall approval rating of Multiple School Masteries is not exactly the open and shut case that I had expected. More support it than do not, for sure; however I can't fathom why this would seem like such a horrible change (if implemented) to some.
Yeah, we know that the school classes should stay separate. Truly, we do. Is this actually an issue? Past Celestia or so, Ravenwood spells are really only useful for their utility purposes, not so much for damage, with a few exceptions.

For those of you that somehow still disagree:

, , and do not have any native heals as of Exalted (minus Link / Power Link, and perhaps Shift if you're on the receiving end of it). For those of you that disliked the idea of Mastery Amulets in the first place, do you mean to tell me that you would have been fine with no Life Mastery whatsoever, forcing these schools to waste four turns to get a measly 860 HP base heal?

doesn't count for obvious reasons, although they don't have a true heal either; only drains.

All through Azteca, on my Balance, I used my Mastery and Hybrid gear (plus the Virulence aura later on) to get through bosses averaging 20,000+ health, not including the minion. (No, Chimera does NOT work effectively at 340 Damage per head unshielded and a staggering pip cost of 9, please spare me). This would not have been a viable strategy if Mastery Amulets did not exist.
It is quite obvious that, at the end of the day, despite your opinions to the contrary, the developers thought that it would be a better idea to introduce Mastery Amulets to the game than to leave them out. Period. Don't try to argue. Off-school spells are trainable for a reason (hint: to be trained), otherwise we would simply quest along like so many other games existing now, getting the spells that the trainer gave us and that would be that.

Mastery Jewels would be a great addition to the game, because the game was created with diversity and variety in mind.
Do you play other mmos? Are you soloing with your balance? My two cents: Like, Interpidatius, I have to disagree with dual school mastery amulet idea. Originally, I am OK with mastery amulets at the expense of crowns (additional real money.) Just the fact that you can get them as drops as well (waterworks comes to mind) is enough to become "hybrid" and "versatile". With the release of exalted mastery amulets from Tartarus, and those other ones that gives additional stats from Darkmoor, there is already enough tools for the hybrid aspect. I am unhappy with these newer mastery amulets, but I'll live with it. If a dual school mastery amulet exists, why have different schools of magic in the first place? Each school has their own pros and cons which makes them unique. With other mmos I've played, once a class is chosen, you are that class only and you will get shunned even just for trying to even play in the style of another class. I am not judging you, which is why I asked those two questions. I understand that this game is more casual but a dual school mastery amulet is an absolute no. With that being said, I agree with your other post, that the school needs catching up.

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Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
HalfBakedBean on Aug 28, 2015 wrote:
Do you play other mmos? Are you soloing with your balance? My two cents: Like, Interpidatius, I have to disagree with dual school mastery amulet idea. Originally, I am OK with mastery amulets at the expense of crowns (additional real money.) Just the fact that you can get them as drops as well (waterworks comes to mind) is enough to become "hybrid" and "versatile". With the release of exalted mastery amulets from Tartarus, and those other ones that gives additional stats from Darkmoor, there is already enough tools for the hybrid aspect. I am unhappy with these newer mastery amulets, but I'll live with it. If a dual school mastery amulet exists, why have different schools of magic in the first place? Each school has their own pros and cons which makes them unique. With other mmos I've played, once a class is chosen, you are that class only and you will get shunned even just for trying to even play in the style of another class. I am not judging you, which is why I asked those two questions. I understand that this game is more casual but a dual school mastery amulet is an absolute no. With that being said, I agree with your other post, that the school needs catching up.

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LMAO...I love your user name! It ranks up there with The Epic Duck.

Survivor
Aug 21, 2015
14
Intrepidatius on Aug 28, 2015 wrote:
LMAO...I love your user name! It ranks up there with The Epic Duck.
yeah like yours too :)

Survivor
May 14, 2012
3
I think dual school mastery is ok,but what they need to fix is take away some common school specialty tc(or make it rarer )such as rebirth, shatter, virulent plagues,smokescreen. So they can still use off school spells with power pips, but have no access to super good spells of other schools. Just like how other school can still satyr and unicorn to heal,but they dont have good source of rebirth tc.I feel like life school has loss its uniqueness because everyone can jade,everyone can have high heal boost easily and they can spam rebirth too.Everyone has a standard healing boost with good gear too.But when it comes to secondary attack school, we can never find best gears with decent off school damage boost, so it's always much more advantageous to have own school damage gear+mastery for healing rather than own school gear+mastery for hitting,I'm speaking from high lvl perspective about this,since the good spells like mana burn,loremaster,enfeeble,bad juju,talos are rare/non-existing as tc or not allowed in pvp,shouldnt we cut down the tc I mentioned earlier too? They're the most useful ones from wt i know. I believe we can reduce spamming in pvp,make mastery amulets not as op, and still make each school retain its uniqueness in this way.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
amoeboid on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
I think dual school mastery is ok,but what they need to fix is take away some common school specialty tc(or make it rarer )such as rebirth, shatter, virulent plagues,smokescreen. So they can still use off school spells with power pips, but have no access to super good spells of other schools. Just like how other school can still satyr and unicorn to heal,but they dont have good source of rebirth tc.I feel like life school has loss its uniqueness because everyone can jade,everyone can have high heal boost easily and they can spam rebirth too.Everyone has a standard healing boost with good gear too.But when it comes to secondary attack school, we can never find best gears with decent off school damage boost, so it's always much more advantageous to have own school damage gear+mastery for healing rather than own school gear+mastery for hitting,I'm speaking from high lvl perspective about this,since the good spells like mana burn,loremaster,enfeeble,bad juju,talos are rare/non-existing as tc or not allowed in pvp,shouldnt we cut down the tc I mentioned earlier too? They're the most useful ones from wt i know. I believe we can reduce spamming in pvp,make mastery amulets not as op, and still make each school retain its uniqueness in this way.
Excellent post. I have touched on this subject many times before, and you can also read it in another current post of mine:

https://www.wizard101.com/forum/the-dorms/how-wizard-spellsclasses-should-be-set-up-8ad6a4164f4a30c2014f66bf15fc1545?reset=1

Explorer
Jul 21, 2015
70
For Me I Want To Use Fire Spells But They Cost Too Many Pips But On A Fire Wiz I Want A Death Mastery But Don't Want To Buy Another Master Amulet

So ...

& Mastery

Tradeable
No Auction
Sellable

Elijah Drake 6, 33

Explorer
Jul 21, 2015
70
Blaze5364 on Aug 13, 2015 wrote:
I guess you mean amulet stitching?
well... Stitching You Give The Looks Of One Item To The Stats Of Another

Explorer
Sep 19, 2012
50
mittensk on Aug 23, 2015 wrote:
I love the idea of double school mastery amulets. I play by myself all the time, and that would come in handy. The best part is it's not needed to play, so if you won't like it you don't have to use it. For PVP's well, they can have a separate PVP area for those who use the double mastery amulet, and you can't access the regular PVP if you have it equipped.
I would love to have a mastery amulet and one of the other amulets that gives stats fused together at times too.
am amazed there are so many naysayers in this thread..this is an excellent idea why be so verbose? ok to keep it simple..ki games ARE unique and just because another mmorpg has died because of blah blah doesnt mean this one would too...many people get dropped spells from loremaster they would love to use if only for animation purposes and the higher shadow tower learned shift spells can put you in the same situation as well..you only can earn a certain amount of training points so whats the big deal?

I feel dual class amulets COULD be viable if there were some limitations..maybe crafted only or something new like melding in which its similar to using a stitch and yet you are actually combining 2 sets of something for a fee..including gear(covers ears to be able to think over the screaming).. I call this progression vs. regression syndrome, progression enhances and encourages diversified gameplay thus happiness of customers whereas regression stagnents the game and causes things to become boring at which time boring games die faster.
This is a fun family game and as such can we please be sweet and polite to each other as well as(even I need this) attempt to keep our words simple and cleanly to the point so that all wizards, regardless of age or mentality can easy understand?
This issue, we can all agree has been considered for a long time..years and discussed quite loudly at times..I agree that the timing in the past mightve not been correct but for todays budding wizard? well why not? Just because most will want one style of "op" dual school mastery amulet to craft/meld/farm etc, doesnt mean ALL would, and even better if they did! Makes it all the easier to combat it in pvp lol, you as a wizard could diversify and come up with a new plan of attack etc..many bosses now act as if they are double even triple school, so knowing how to counteract that is a good thing..wave of the future is to keep improving on what you have.. keep learning/trying/failing/moving on.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
stormyjensilverdra... on Oct 26, 2015 wrote:
am amazed there are so many naysayers in this thread..this is an excellent idea why be so verbose? ok to keep it simple..ki games ARE unique and just because another mmorpg has died because of blah blah doesnt mean this one would too...many people get dropped spells from loremaster they would love to use if only for animation purposes and the higher shadow tower learned shift spells can put you in the same situation as well..you only can earn a certain amount of training points so whats the big deal?

I feel dual class amulets COULD be viable if there were some limitations..maybe crafted only or something new like melding in which its similar to using a stitch and yet you are actually combining 2 sets of something for a fee..including gear(covers ears to be able to think over the screaming).. I call this progression vs. regression syndrome, progression enhances and encourages diversified gameplay thus happiness of customers whereas regression stagnents the game and causes things to become boring at which time boring games die faster.
This is a fun family game and as such can we please be sweet and polite to each other as well as(even I need this) attempt to keep our words simple and cleanly to the point so that all wizards, regardless of age or mentality can easy understand?
This issue, we can all agree has been considered for a long time..years and discussed quite loudly at times..I agree that the timing in the past mightve not been correct but for todays budding wizard? well why not? Just because most will want one style of "op" dual school mastery amulet to craft/meld/farm etc, doesnt mean ALL would, and even better if they did! Makes it all the easier to combat it in pvp lol, you as a wizard could diversify and come up with a new plan of attack etc..many bosses now act as if they are double even triple school, so knowing how to counteract that is a good thing..wave of the future is to keep improving on what you have.. keep learning/trying/failing/moving on.
1) The reason for the naysays is because it is an unhealthy idea for the game. This is something that goes beyond simple preferences of likes/dislikes. It erodes the distinction of the wizard classes even further, and for mmorpg's that spells doom.

2) No, there is nothing viable about dual mastery.

3) I am direct and to the point. I see no reason to "sugar coat" anything.

4)Using the excuse of diversity, is simply an attempt to reword the argument for the use of dual mastery. Let me be very clear: dual mastery is a terrible idea for the health of the game, no matter how you change the words.

Delver
Mar 31, 2015
203
I thought you were going to stop beating the proverbial dead horse, Intrepidatius.

And, HalfBakedBean, I DID solo on my Balance for most of Azteca (and indeed for most of the game), despite clicking Team Up; there weren't too many players questing at Azteca when I was playing there.

The most potentially OP combination I can think of would be a or wizard with and mastery. Indeed, as it currently stands doesn't even need a mastery at all, but that's no fault of ours.

But Balances with and / / mastery (take your pick) can be almost as dangerous, once shields become shields again, not just pierce debuffs...

Or a , with and anything.

If Pierce wasn't so much out of control (in terms of PVP), it wouldn't really be that much of a problem to have dual mastery. One missed shield won't cost you the game. Plus using a secondary school for damage purposes becomes all but obsolete by Level 100.
(My Balance was a special case however, having no prisms for those 20,000+ Bosses. But I digress).

If you haven't noticed, I am certainly in favor of a Moon Mastery as well; in fact I think the game would benefit greatly from it. (Or a Moon Mastery jewel). But it can't be a standalone mastery; too many players need or seriously benefit from Mastery for a only Mastery to be viable in terms of gameplay. In fact it will benefit only the schools that have native heals / drains, which as of this moment are , , , and . (Power Link really doesn't count).

Also, when I initially created this thread, my reasoning to advocate dual masteries was mainly for utility purposes. While Triage, Enfeeble, and Shift continue to not exist as TC cards (or at least are so difficult to find / get as to not exist at all), the only real utility cards are off-school spells like Satyr, Earthquake, Shift Grendel, Reshuffle, etc.

I mean, guys. Test realm exists for a reason, no? Let's at least test the idea here on Test Realm, not on some other game, before blatantly naysaying.

Explorer
Sep 17, 2008
56
Typically, I don't post on the forums very often. I did want to give my input on this particular suggestion, however.

Healing isn't, in my opinion, what makes life unique. It is group healing. Those spells would remain in the purview of the life school regardless of dual mastery amulets. You cannot train up Myth's minion spells, either. And Fire's DoTs are unavailable after Fire Elf. And so on and so forth. Dual mastery amulets would not make these spells, spells that are unique and defining for their respective schools, suddenly available for training.

If the idea is that dual mastery amulets takes away people's je ne sais quoi or somehow infringe upon their school's specialty... that is a flawed theory.

As it is, mastery amulets are what allow characters to diversify their portfolios effectively. That and deck set up.

What kills a game? An mmorpg specifically? In my mind, it is the collection quests like those that you find in Zafaria. I have stopped playing and taken more breaks over that issue than I have for anything else in the game. That and cheating bosses. You know what? If I could get another mastery amulet and mix and match an additional school into my play style, I could at least use those collection quests as a chance to experiment with new spells. lol

Personally, I think that everyone here has made some good points for and against, but ultimately I say that the evidence against the idea is too weak and founded on too much speculation rather than fact. Dual mastery amulets would let wizards use more spells of their choosing effectively - that sounds like diverse game play to me.

I'm sorry if this isn't what some of you want to hear. It is just my thoughts on the matter.