Hey! So, this is my first actual post to the message boards. So if this is in the wrong place or the wrong format or something, please bare with me. I've just been doing a lot of thinking lately about Third Arc, the Arcanum, new schools, and other such things, and wanted to get some ideas flowing.
To start with, i'm finished with Polaris, but I haven't begun Mirage. I know the general concept of what we're after in Mirage (I say it that way to avoid spoilers haha),and the general idea of the Cabal, sort of. But thats all, so if anything I say turns out different due to an event in Mirage.. Well, that's why I'm in the message boards. :) However, this is where i'm going to put my *SPOILER ALERT* because I will be talking about some events through second arc, Wintertusk, and up to the end of Polaris, and a small bit from Mirage.
So lets begin! In Khrysalis, we free Old Cob, who we learn later to be Grandfather Spider, a primordial being, representing, or at least harnessing, the power of Shadow. He is about as old as Bartelby. Possibly just as powerful, if not more powerful. Now we have to think... If Old Cob is represented by Shadow, what school does Bartelby represent? Well, in Mirage, we learn about the Chronomancers, or Time Wizards. And i'm told that somewhere in the world of Mirage, we see the use of time magic, even if we can't learn it ourselves yet. Bartelby's eyes of time lead me to believe this is his "School of Origin".
Bartelby and Cob are not the only beings we know of from their time, however. Lady Nightstar, or Grandmother Raven, we meet in Wintertusk. What school is she? Her rivalry, for lack of a better word, with Spider, as well as her reference to "Sensing purity of heart" in Polaris leads me to believe she is a Shadow-opposite, or Lighf.
Now Light magic is a sensitive topic. Because many people believe it's a school of it's own. Many people believe light is the unison of the Astral Magics. Many people believe that the Astrals, AND the 7 schools, make up light magic. What is your opinion?
We've now talked about the third arc trio of magic, Light, Shadow and Time. This is a realization many people havw come across already, and one many haven't. But there's a school of magic even less people have heard of, and that's Cantrips.
I really don't know where this rumor came from. I believe it has a confirmed source. But it's said to be a school of illusion, and where the boss cheats come from.
This leads me into my final topic; The electrified door in the Arcanum. Many people say it belongs to the Cabal, and this may well be true. But above the door is a symbol like the school symbols on the classrooms. I havent seen a symbol in that style anywhere else in the Arcanum. Is this door maybe a school of Cantrips? Does thaf tie into the Cabal's endgame somehow maybe? Other thoughts, theories, or ideas?
Thank you for reading this. :) What do you think third arc is going? How do these new magics come into play? I can't wait to hear your ideas!
Re: Shall we talk about the future of magic again?
Overtaker99 on Dec 14, 2016 wrote:
Hey! So, this is my first actual post to the message boards. So if this is in the wrong place or the wrong format or something, please bare with me. I've just been doing a lot of thinking lately about Third Arc, the Arcanum, new schools, and other such things, and wanted to get some ideas flowing.
To start with, i'm finished with Polaris, but I haven't begun Mirage. I know the general concept of what we're after in Mirage (I say it that way to avoid spoilers haha),and the general idea of the Cabal, sort of. But thats all, so if anything I say turns out different due to an event in Mirage.. Well, that's why I'm in the message boards. :) However, this is where i'm going to put my *SPOILER ALERT* because I will be talking about some events through second arc, Wintertusk, and up to the end of Polaris, and a small bit from Mirage.
So lets begin! In Khrysalis, we free Old Cob, who we learn later to be Grandfather Spider, a primordial being, representing, or at least harnessing, the power of Shadow. He is about as old as Bartelby. Possibly just as powerful, if not more powerful. Now we have to think... If Old Cob is represented by Shadow, what school does Bartelby represent? Well, in Mirage, we learn about the Chronomancers, or Time Wizards. And i'm told that somewhere in the world of Mirage, we see the use of time magic, even if we can't learn it ourselves yet. Bartelby's eyes of time lead me to believe this is his "School of Origin".
Bartelby and Cob are not the only beings we know of from their time, however. Lady Nightstar, or Grandmother Raven, we meet in Wintertusk. What school is she? Her rivalry, for lack of a better word, with Spider, as well as her reference to "Sensing purity of heart" in Polaris leads me to believe she is a Shadow-opposite, or Lighf.
Now Light magic is a sensitive topic. Because many people believe it's a school of it's own. Many people believe light is the unison of the Astral Magics. Many people believe that the Astrals, AND the 7 schools, make up light magic. What is your opinion?
We've now talked about the third arc trio of magic, Light, Shadow and Time. This is a realization many people havw come across already, and one many haven't. But there's a school of magic even less people have heard of, and that's Cantrips.
I really don't know where this rumor came from. I believe it has a confirmed source. But it's said to be a school of illusion, and where the boss cheats come from.
This leads me into my final topic; The electrified door in the Arcanum. Many people say it belongs to the Cabal, and this may well be true. But above the door is a symbol like the school symbols on the classrooms. I havent seen a symbol in that style anywhere else in the Arcanum. Is this door maybe a school of Cantrips? Does thaf tie into the Cabal's endgame somehow maybe? Other thoughts, theories, or ideas?
Thank you for reading this. :) What do you think third arc is going? How do these new magics come into play? I can't wait to hear your ideas!
First of all, welcome! Second, my main character's still in Avalon, but I've read a lot into the lore of this game. However, if anything I say is wrong, please correct me.
So then, Spider. Trapped in Khrysalis, by Raven. Presumably led Morganthe there to use her to do his bidding, but she wouldn't free him, and so he was still trapped, only with Shadow magic released across the Spiral, which helpfully (for Cob at least) led us right to him; wherein we free him. Yes, he has very strong ties to Shadow magic, be it his own, or one of his children's (I'll come back to that), we're not entirely sure.
But on Bartleby, you've overlooked a few notes. First of all, Raven made his eyes of the past and future, meaning he himself has no canon use of Chronomancy, but Raven does (interesting). Second of all, he sang into existence the Dragons, Giants, and Titans. So his school of magic is one of three possibilities. 1: We don't know it yet. 2: All 3 primary 'Bartleby schools' (Fire, Ice, Storm) as I call them. OR 3: Balance, as it's the combination of all the Bartleby schools. I personally think it's option 1, and that (with all of the Grandparents) he has no 'magic' persay. Only the ability to create new ones.
If I'm perfectly honest, given the warning we receive from her in Polaris regarding using knowledge for the good of the Spiral or her wrath will find us, combined with the plot twist at the end of Mirage (SPOILERS: Mellori was sent by Raven to stop Spider, but he saw it coming and beat her): I think Raven will become an enemy to us. At some point, but I don't think she'll stay one for long.
Now I personally don't think Light will ever be canon, at least not as an opposite to Shadow. After all: you can't have a Shadow without Dark and Light. If anything, they'd have to introduce two new schools instead of one. Time is a tricky one because I don't know much about it. But Cantrips, yes, very interesting. I'll add more when I have more room to type.
Re: Shall we talk about the future of magic again?
Blaze, for someone on Avalon, you really know your stuff, nice job.
Very nice point about Bartelby; Grandmother Raven created his eyes of time. I didn't consider this when writing the post. Any one of your speculations as to Bartelby's type could be true, I feel. But at the same time, Grandmother Raven could have made eyes of time for him for a reason; An amplification to his power maybe, if he were to possess aspects of the school of time. (I say aspects because of your theory that possibly the ancients don't have magics, just ability to create magics. Which also makes sense, in it's own context.) In this scenario, Raven wouldn't neccesarily have Chronomancy either. (But she could! Maybe thats how she made the eyes. Maybe she found another way.)
In another scenario, Raven is the one with influence over Chronomancy. This could mean Bartelby is a representation of Light magic. You say you don't see a true Light school being canon, and I respect that. However the astrals are a form of light magic; Maybe Bartelby is astral-oriented?
Re: Shall we talk about the future of magic again?
Overtaker99 on Dec 15, 2016 wrote:
Blaze, for someone on Avalon, you really know your stuff, nice job.
Very nice point about Bartelby; Grandmother Raven created his eyes of time. I didn't consider this when writing the post. Any one of your speculations as to Bartelby's type could be true, I feel. But at the same time, Grandmother Raven could have made eyes of time for him for a reason; An amplification to his power maybe, if he were to possess aspects of the school of time. (I say aspects because of your theory that possibly the ancients don't have magics, just ability to create magics. Which also makes sense, in it's own context.) In this scenario, Raven wouldn't neccesarily have Chronomancy either. (But she could! Maybe thats how she made the eyes. Maybe she found another way.)
In another scenario, Raven is the one with influence over Chronomancy. This could mean Bartelby is a representation of Light magic. You say you don't see a true Light school being canon, and I respect that. However the astrals are a form of light magic; Maybe Bartelby is astral-oriented?
Thanks for your thoughts :)
Interesting note about the eyes possibly being used to amplify his power. Personally, I think they were just a gift of knowledge (knowing everything that has happened and will happen), but neither of our opinions have been fully canonised. And about the astral magics being light magic, I have issues with the idea of a Light magic because it's been used to mean many different things. Some view it as Merle's magic, others as an opposite to Shadow, others as Raven/Tree's school. Now, according to the Triangle of Magic, create , create , and create . The Astrals are formed from 2 Spirits and 1 Elemental, all of which are what I call 'Bartleby Magics'. But the other triad on there that combines to make a school would be either the Elementals or Spirits creating . Now given the theme of where was made (KT), I think it's , which leaves to make something related to and Astrals. This is where the idea of a Light school could be canonised, but not quite as Bartleby's magic. As he isn't strictly or Astral or Elemental or Spirit. He's the origin of them all.
Now if all of that can come from 3 Bartleby Titans, then what of the 3 Spider Titans? Because in order for my theory to hold up, Spider can't control Shadow, but have only made Shadow along with 2 other magics when he created Bat, Rat, and Scorpion. Well, obviously, one of them would be Shadow, but what else. Well the game practically gave one of these away in calling Scorpion a 'master Alchemist': so Scorpion's school could easily be Alchemy. That leaves Bat & Rat with Shadow and... Cantrips. A tricksy term.
Comes from Scottish, meaning a witch's trick, so presumably a school of trickery and cheating and manipulation. And WHO displays this better than the Rat in Polaris? As Airdale Guthrie would say: 'a mad creature of corrupting influence! He steals into men's minds and makes them his puppets!'. And of course, if a Bat and Shadow don't go hand in hand, then I don't know what does.
create 
, 
create 
, and 
. The Astrals are formed from 2 Spirits and 1 Elemental, all of which are what I call 'Bartleby Magics'. But the other triad on there that combines to make a school would be either the Elementals or Spirits creating 
. Now given the theme of where