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Shadow Spells! (Sorry Prof. Falmea!)

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Shadow magic is definitely one of the things I'm most looking forward to! I've been grinding quests for the past few days, slowly but surely leveling up, in large part because I'm eager to get my hands on the Dark Shepherd spell, and the Shadow enhanced Death spells too of course.

I missed Falmea's Feedback Friday, I know, but I had to say something. Doh!

As someone who's always favored the Death school (and that's after trying out literally ALL of the other schools in depth) I feel like Shadow would be the perfect supplementary school, since it's so similar to Death.

I love the Shadow spells so much I even bought the Witch Hunter's Bundle, which is modeled after the Shadow spell teacher. I think what I want from Shadow is...more! Just...more.

There are so many Sun, Moon and Star spells, but Shadow spells are far less common and even less varied in usefulness.

Heck, I think even Monstrology adds more depth to the game than Shadow did. Though it's still confusing, trying to figure out which Animus spell to use. It's not exactly cut and dried.

The new "Trick" spell is definitely a step in the right direction. I'd be disappointed if it were the only new Shadow spell in the works right now.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
I think it's important to note: Shadow enhanced spells don't really feel like they're a part of the Shadow school.

They're just regular spells that do more and happen to cost a Shadow pip. Call of Khrulhu for example is just a super powered Scarecrow with awesome visual effects. Winged Sorrow is like any other spell, with the signature "Plague" effect as a bonus.

Qismah's Curse is literally exactly like all of the other spells of it's type, in that you can select who it hits as opposed to hitting just one or all. A nice improvement, but it still doesn't stand out.

You could remove the Shadow pip cost from these spells and they'd just be "Death" spells (or whatever school they fall under) because they don't really offer anything different from the spells that came before them.

The Dark Shepherd (Sentinel, Shrike, Fiend, Nova etc.) are the only spells that are unique among the Shadow school, though still similar to Death. "Backlash" is reminiscent of spells like Bad Juju, Empower and Dark Pact.

I guess what I'm saying is, Shadow needs to stand on it's own, have it's own unique purpose. Sun focuses on enhancing, Moon is polymorphing and shifting, and Star is all about auras.

What does Shadow do that no other school does? Maybe later all the different schools can branch out and do different things, but you gotta have a solid foundation, a concept to start with.

That's what I feel Shadow is really lacking.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Although perhaps a shadow's strength is that it doesn't stand on it's own? I mean, not usually anyway, haha. Nodding to the Shadow Trickster and other such entities.

Hmm...perhaps a Shadow spell that sticks to your opponent's shadow, or makes their own shadow work against them? Say, if they do things it dislikes it'll do more damage to them once the two turns are up, hence discouraging them from doing certain things. Very similar to spells like Dark Shepherd, except that it possesses your opponent instead of you, and it's influenced by it's dislikes instead of likes.

Survivor
Oct 17, 2011
38
Right, but the shadow-enhanced spells are not shadow spells. They call them shadow-enhanced and not shadow spells because they cost 1 shadow pip and an amount of regular pips. I also want to disagree with you if you are suggesting to add this school to the other 7 schools. Also, I think the shadow spells are balanced right except the new trick spell. I personally think all of the shadow-enhanced spells need revamps. Those are my thoughts.

-Daniel RavenSmith

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
garrett9939 on Aug 12, 2017 wrote:
Right, but the shadow-enhanced spells are not shadow spells. They call them shadow-enhanced and not shadow spells because they cost 1 shadow pip and an amount of regular pips. I also want to disagree with you if you are suggesting to add this school to the other 7 schools. Also, I think the shadow spells are balanced right except the new trick spell. I personally think all of the shadow-enhanced spells need revamps. Those are my thoughts.

-Daniel RavenSmith
Good point on the Shadow enhanced spells. They really aren't a part of the Shadow school- which is exactly what I was saying.

No, I am not suggesting the Shadow school join the original 7 schools. What on earth gave you that impression?

Although now that you mention it, I am one of those people who think they should introduce new starter schools. The Wysteria schools, such as Tempest, Spirit, Earth, Chaos, Order etc. and starter versions of the Astral schools and Shadow magic.

So even though I didn't bring it up, you did, I'd have to say yeah- totally. We're in disagreement there.

(Which is totally fine!)

Right now though, I'm merely insisting the Shadow school be on par with the other late game schools such as Sun, Moon, and Star. I personally do not believe the Shadow school is currently balanced- I'd say it's being neglected.

There are 6 Shadow spells as I'm writing this, while there are 25 Sun spells,19 Moon spells, and 23 Star spells. I'm personally ecstatic that they are finally showing Shadow some love, even if it doesn't start out perfect.

I still think Trick was a step in the right direction, even if it is allegedly unbalanced- it wasn't even meant to be released yet anyway, so it could be- but it was the first Shadow spell with a zero pip cost and some new effects, and that's promising.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Kinda disappointed that there's only two new Shadow spells.

Don't get me wrong, Donate Shadow is great, and Trickster looks interesting...

Here's hoping that this is just the opening of the flood gates, and that we can expect even more Shadow spells down the line.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Was "Trick" really unbalanced though? Lord of Winter/Mana Burn anyone?

Astrologist
Dec 31, 2009
1124
Necromancer Chris on Sep 28, 2017 wrote:
Was "Trick" really unbalanced though? Lord of Winter/Mana Burn anyone?
It was 0 pips, so yeah!

Defender
Dec 26, 2016
132
Necromancer Chris on Sep 28, 2017 wrote:
Was "Trick" really unbalanced though? Lord of Winter/Mana Burn anyone?
Mana Burn: Hits you gor every pip the target has and destroys three pips. Costs 5 pips

Lord of Winter: Hits you for nearly 1000 hp and steals one pip. Costs 10 pips.

Trick: Steals one power (...right?) pip. Costs 0 pips.

At least with Lord of Winter and Mana Burn it had a relatively high pip cost so it wasn't very easy to spam it. Trick on the other hand, you could have cast it with no cost, spamming it until you had enough pips to use an attack that could do some real damage.

Trick is still going to be in the game but I believe it's part of the Trickster spell. Don't know how it works yet but a lot of people assumed that the spell wasn't finished because of missing animation sequences, and the Trickster spell proves it.

Amber Dreamflower 120
Amber Frostflower 61
Mindy Rainflower 5

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
- what about that maycast? The "Steal Pips" spell- it's zero pips, and it can steal up to 3 pips.

Look up Dune Warrior's Chronospear.

Survivor
Mar 18, 2017
8
That's right. And even the basic spells- steal ward, pierce, steal charm etc
Not as impactful (situational.) but also 0 pips apart from the latter there. You could spam them just as easily.

I totally agree that shadow seems underwhelming currently. Hopefully new spells will be added soon. Even a basic one would be appreciated at this point- less than half the spells the other late game schools have.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Stuns are pretty op as well, if what you're going on is it's zero pip cost.

The fact that only a select few schools can actually use them (not counting item cards & treasure cards) means that schools like Ice have a significant advantage.

At least "Trick" would've been available to everyone.

Defender
Dec 26, 2016
132
Necromancer Chris on Oct 2, 2017 wrote:
Stuns are pretty op as well, if what you're going on is it's zero pip cost.

The fact that only a select few schools can actually use them (not counting item cards & treasure cards) means that schools like Ice have a significant advantage.

At least "Trick" would've been available to everyone.
Every time you get stunned, there's a stun block placed on you to prevent getting stunned twice in a row.

And then there's the trainable stun block spell, stun resistance gear/jewels, conviction aura, and the fact that stun spells are 5% less accurate than their school's normal accuracy. So if the caster get debuffed, they can still fizzle, but even if they don't, they can still counter those attacks.

The steal pip maycast is a maycast so it only has a chance to steal pips and there's ANOTHER chance that it's not going to steal the amount of pips you want. It's kind of like Wild Bolt in that sense.

To LightningwingSkye, steal ward and charm costs pips and don't have 100% accuracy, but with Aegis and Indeminity, you can still counter those attacks.

Trick can't be countered, doesn't have a pip cost, and has no counter attacks. And with the current shadow spells, which is also school that requires you to bend reality and try not to crush yourself with the backlash, I'd expect a lot more than a steal pip spell.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
thatgrumpypanda on Oct 2, 2017 wrote:
Every time you get stunned, there's a stun block placed on you to prevent getting stunned twice in a row.

And then there's the trainable stun block spell, stun resistance gear/jewels, conviction aura, and the fact that stun spells are 5% less accurate than their school's normal accuracy. So if the caster get debuffed, they can still fizzle, but even if they don't, they can still counter those attacks.

The steal pip maycast is a maycast so it only has a chance to steal pips and there's ANOTHER chance that it's not going to steal the amount of pips you want. It's kind of like Wild Bolt in that sense.

To LightningwingSkye, steal ward and charm costs pips and don't have 100% accuracy, but with Aegis and Indeminity, you can still counter those attacks.

Trick can't be countered, doesn't have a pip cost, and has no counter attacks. And with the current shadow spells, which is also school that requires you to bend reality and try not to crush yourself with the backlash, I'd expect a lot more than a steal pip spell.
I don't think it matters whether it steals less pips than you want- it has zero pip cost, it's gonna do shadow damage either way, and while trick only steals 1 pip it can steal up to 3.

Wild Bolt is a win or lose spell- Steal Pips/Mega Shadowstrike is a win or win harder spell. It's only drawback being that you can't count on it as much as you could a spell that is learned.

As for Trick having no counter, I'd have to disagree. Trick is basically it's own counter- they steal a pip, you steal it right back.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Well, I finally have my own Shadow spells. I have to rescind my initial complaint about the Shadow school lacking variety. Although I only have the Polymorph Shadow spells at the moment.

Shrike is perfect for bypassing tower shields and other resistances though it has the drawback of making it more difficult for you to be healed, Sentinal allows me to intercept damage for my teammates basically taking some of the hit for them, and Seraph makes any heal grant a damage absorbing shield to your entire team in addition to increasing your outgoing damage and healing by 25%.

I think all Moon spells should be reworked like this. Unless they plan to make them scale with your level like everyone keeps saying. In which case, there's still the issue of duplicate Polymorphs, like Cat Bandit/Storm Elemental/Pterodactyl.

There should only be one Polymorph from each school of magic, unless the Polymorph fulfills a different unique role. #MakeMoonSpellsMoreThanaGimmick

Back to Shadow though, I'm level 100 now and on my way to Darkmoor! Wish me luck!

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Wow. Call of Khrulhu makes an enormous difference. Like, seriously. Questing solo is actually doable again.

Defender
Jul 21, 2017
137
Dark Shepherd is underwhelming compared to Call of Khrulhu.

Survivor
May 13, 2011
18
Necromancer Chris on Oct 10, 2017 wrote:
Well, I finally have my own Shadow spells. I have to rescind my initial complaint about the Shadow school lacking variety. Although I only have the Polymorph Shadow spells at the moment.

Shrike is perfect for bypassing tower shields and other resistances though it has the drawback of making it more difficult for you to be healed, Sentinal allows me to intercept damage for my teammates basically taking some of the hit for them, and Seraph makes any heal grant a damage absorbing shield to your entire team in addition to increasing your outgoing damage and healing by 25%.

I think all Moon spells should be reworked like this. Unless they plan to make them scale with your level like everyone keeps saying. In which case, there's still the issue of duplicate Polymorphs, like Cat Bandit/Storm Elemental/Pterodactyl.

There should only be one Polymorph from each school of magic, unless the Polymorph fulfills a different unique role. #MakeMoonSpellsMoreThanaGimmick

Back to Shadow though, I'm level 100 now and on my way to Darkmoor! Wish me luck!
Disagree with that last bit. Storm Elemental and Cat Bandit are not duplicates, because the latter has no resist and does much more damage, whereas the former has 80% resist, which makes it useful for killing the minions of bosses (that aren't themselves . . or ), or against non- bosses that have cheats that do damage, like Ervin the Barbarian. If anything, the polymorphs that are duplicate are Cat Bandit/Draconian, but they have different boost/resist and do different schools of damage, which makes cat bandit great against enemies (who boost , but cat bandit boosts only and ), and draconian good against creatures (who boost ). Likewise, gobbler is a tank polymorph, but colossus is a useful damage-dealing polymorph against creatures (who boost ). Don't oversimplify -- each -school spell has its uses.

I don't have access to Azteca yet, so can't comment on the Aztecan polymorphs like Pterodactyl.

Cole SunPetal, Level 83

Explorer
Jul 18, 2011
78
has little cards because it boost a play style not just stats and other times without it you realise that the game is too hard or easy without those low shadow pip chances call of kuthulu would be too easy too cast