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Can winter moon be a 4 pip spell?

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Nov 05, 2012
55
I take a look at loremaster and headless horseman and I have trouble thinking of a good reason why winter moon can't be a 4 pip spell. It's a spell most people have to craft if they don't pay crowns for it, and while it does a sizable amount of damage, it's still less than headless and handsome fomori. the stun really isn't a game changer, its good in pvp but not great especially when we have spells like fire beetle, gaze, medusa, (the list goes on and on and you get the point). So I'd like the spell to be reduced in pip cost, that is all.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
I'm completely opposed to this:

-Its already above Ice' s typical dpp.
-A stun on a 5 pip spell is a huge boon for PvP and this spell is already Ices premier combo set up.
-The ice school is already ridiculously top tier in PvP and does not need ANY buffs.

Explorer
Nov 05, 2012
55
Eric Stormbringer on May 14, 2018 wrote:
I'm completely opposed to this:

-Its already above Ice' s typical dpp.
-A stun on a 5 pip spell is a huge boon for PvP and this spell is already Ices premier combo set up.
-The ice school is already ridiculously top tier in PvP and does not need ANY buffs.
OK, let me retry this:
-it's not above ices dpp by much, crafted/unique spells all do more than their regular counter parts and frostbite, which does more as it's an overtime, is only 15 damage below it if I don't include the initial hit.

-the stun isn't all that, stun block shuts that down pretty well, it's nice if you hit first and move into a good set up, but the second the stun block comes in the extra stun doesn't help. Especially if they manage to put down 2 because at that point, winter moon is useless.

-whether or not a spell should get a buff really shouldn't hinge on whether or not that spells school is good in pvp. The meta of pvp changes with each new update, until weaver came out fire was on top (or at least that's how I hear it). But later this year whenever the new Empyrea spells come out the meta could be flipped on its head again and any school could be boosted (I'm including new possible crafted spells & shadow spells, along with the level 128 spells). The only reason mirage didn't break it was because the new divided spells just added damage and nothing else, heck Polaris could've upended things if we didn't only mostly get AOE spells. My point is, the pvp meta could flip on its head in a couple of months, and ices rank could be put down, all in accordance to whatever kings isle wants. When discussing the value of a spell, you can't pin it on something so totally random.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
piratical505 on May 15, 2018 wrote:
OK, let me retry this:
-it's not above ices dpp by much, crafted/unique spells all do more than their regular counter parts and frostbite, which does more as it's an overtime, is only 15 damage below it if I don't include the initial hit.

-the stun isn't all that, stun block shuts that down pretty well, it's nice if you hit first and move into a good set up, but the second the stun block comes in the extra stun doesn't help. Especially if they manage to put down 2 because at that point, winter moon is useless.

-whether or not a spell should get a buff really shouldn't hinge on whether or not that spells school is good in pvp. The meta of pvp changes with each new update, until weaver came out fire was on top (or at least that's how I hear it). But later this year whenever the new Empyrea spells come out the meta could be flipped on its head again and any school could be boosted (I'm including new possible crafted spells & shadow spells, along with the level 128 spells). The only reason mirage didn't break it was because the new divided spells just added damage and nothing else, heck Polaris could've upended things if we didn't only mostly get AOE spells. My point is, the pvp meta could flip on its head in a couple of months, and ices rank could be put down, all in accordance to whatever kings isle wants. When discussing the value of a spell, you can't pin it on something so totally random.
-I agree crafted/unique spells do more dpp. At 5 pips Wintermoon is already at more dpp- meeting trends. At 4 pips it becomes way above dpp(at 4 pips wintermoon's dpp becomes more than fire's)- making it unacceptable

-Stun blocks affect every spell with stun. Should all stun spells then be decreased by 1 pip? Of course not. Ice is also one of the 2 schools gifted with a 0 pip stun so it has a relatively easier time removing stun blocks than most other schools.

-The entire context of your argument is within PvP. Stun blocks are rare in PvE and most bosses are stun immune by default. When it comes to PvP, a schools tier position absolutely should have an influence on spell design. KI's goal should be to ensure that classes are balanced with each other as closely as possible. This means being aware of where a school tiers relative to it's peers and thus what tools should/should not be added. When the meta changes(which it usually does) KI should then adjust as necessary.