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Feedback Friday 3-17-17

1
AuthorMessage
Administrator
Hello everyone! It’s Friday, and it’s time for a new topic!

We just finished this month’s episode of KI Live, we hope you were able to make it (or if you missed it, it will be up next week in permanent format). This was asked of us, but I liked it so much I wanted to save this one for a Feedback Friday.

Leolastat86 (on Twitter) asked us: Will cheating bosses continue To be the norm or are you looking at new, better, ways to increase level difficulty?

We’re constantly brainstorming new techniques for monsters to learn to keep fights interesting. We came up with something really unique to try out for later this year, and I can't wait for everyone to see it (though I can't spill the beans yet). However, I wanted to turn this one to the community for suggestions. How would you increase difficulty in bosses – through new and interesting “cheats” or some other way?

A very green Friday and a happy weekend to everyone!


Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!Save

“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea
Community Leader
I think the best thing you guys can do to keep encounters interesting is to give the mechanics a chance to play out. I duo'd Mirage with a Storm wizard and (with the exception of the final bosses) breezed through the ENTIRE world without encountering any significant cheats.

Windows of power such as the +200% Feint on Jabberwock or the final fight of Darkmoor's 4 turn clock are exciting to play around with and keep fights interesting. I'd like to see more of these.

DuelCircle Organizer. The Slowpoke Sloth is the best.
Delver
Jun 14, 2016
246
Maybe some future bosses can have extremely high health? The Shadow Sentinel from the Omen boss fight had 99,999; maybe future bosses can have hundreds of thousands or millions of health points?

Another idea might be outsourcing AI to the players. I'd like to see an event where you revisit Wysteria for another Spiral Cup tournament, where you fight players disguised as NPCs around the spiral. The first few battles would give modest rewards, but later ones could offer things like crowns, pack items, and so on. But if you lose a fight, you're out of the tournament and you have to restart the questline.

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1475
Please no more cheats :(

I like the idea of the boss morphing into something else better than cheats.

I like the idea of a boss being completely immune to some types of spells. Maybe even immune to entire schools of spells. It would force a teamup or a henchman in some cases or the use of lots of treasure cards. So, maybe do that on an optional quest.

Also a random unknown spell if cast at the boss (changes each time) causes reinforcements to come in to help the boss.

Champion
Mar 25, 2011
420
Professor Falmea on Mar 17, 2017 wrote:
Hello everyone! It’s Friday, and it’s time for a new topic!

We just finished this month’s episode of KI Live, we hope you were able to make it (or if you missed it, it will be up next week in permanent format). This was asked of us, but I liked it so much I wanted to save this one for a Feedback Friday.

Leolastat86 (on Twitter) asked us: Will cheating bosses continue To be the norm or are you looking at new, better, ways to increase level difficulty?

We’re constantly brainstorming new techniques for monsters to learn to keep fights interesting. We came up with something really unique to try out for later this year, and I can't wait for everyone to see it (though I can't spill the beans yet). However, I wanted to turn this one to the community for suggestions. How would you increase difficulty in bosses – through new and interesting “cheats” or some other way?

A very green Friday and a happy weekend to everyone!


Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!Save
Always up for a new challenge

First Idea ~
How about a boss that toggles between using spells that help and hinder you. Shadow is fighting against the will of this boss, but this boss is trying to help you.

At the beginning of every 3 rounds, this boss with cast one of the following cheats:

Helpful Cheats:
"Use this to save me from shadow!" ~ Gives a universal +30% charm to all wizards
"Defeat the shadow within me!" ~ Gives a universal +40% negative ward to self
"Don't give up on me!" ~ Cast a 800 Rebirth on all wizards
Unhelpful Cheats:
"Only the shadow can help me now!" ~ Enfeebles a random wizard
"Ha ha ha! I will not be defeated!" ~ Cleanse all negative wards on self
"The shadow is cold..." ~ Stuns and casts a +40% negative ward on all wizards

There is no calculable sequence. There is a chance to receive 3 unhelpful cheats in succession or 5 helpful cheats.

Second Idea ~

A boss that can trigger all wizards to go into a random shadow form, whether or not they have trained it.

Every 5 rounds, the boss shouts "Let me empower the shadow within you!" and triggers all wizards to go into a random shadow form including shrike, seraph, and sentinel. Backlash and form benefits/cons would be applied accordingly.

Hope to see you all in the Spiral!
Nathan GreenEyes 120 PvP Commander
Nathan GreenEyes 116+ Hot in more ways than one (lol)
(Currently questing through Mirage)
Nathan GreenEyes 110 Couch Potato Hoarder
Ryan HexPyre 104 Always Dying

Survivor
Jun 20, 2010
4
I'd *LOVE* to see a "Bribe The Boss" option! For those of us who play solo, and so CAN'T defeat a cheating boss (since we can't control Henchmen), that would be a most welcome option. Would increase W101 income and would enable solo players to progress! Everybody wins! On a personal note, I'm stuck in Polaris..........after over 5 years of play and thousands of dollars spent in Crowns and Membership, I can't progress any further due to cheating boss at end of Polaris.

Survivor
Dec 11, 2013
15
I would add more charms with higher percentage points up to 500%, getting these charms would be facing gold key bosses, hiding in places like triton underwater, Aquila world, Wizard City Library, just to name a few. No PvP use though. I would also like to have an increase in accuracy percentages to get up to 100% availability. Monsters in worlds before Dragonspyre, need to be low to get a general idea of how to work the game. After Dragonspyre, it can get tricker and harder, I know because I need more help in those Worlds. Would it be possible to have Daily Assignment go Double after three time through the 15 day challenges?

Survivor
Oct 09, 2008
3
At the start of the round, the boss puts a damper or "erases" our Power Pip percentage by a significant amount where there are many white pips as Wizards are forced to use lower pip used cards to their advantages. Wizards are forced to start with a total of 4 pips: a Power Pip and two white pips.

An aura with the increase of pip (depending on the damper or 'erased' Power Pip percentage) will increase the chances of a Power Pip by their given amount. The effects of Empowerment () or Adapt () can also 'bypass', this cheat as well as spells from Sacrifice Minion for 3/4 pips (/), Empower () etc.

Wizards must use their pips sparingly as well as not overly relying on their Power Pips for a quick boss win.

Daniel SkullSword 120 (Farming Couch Potatoes and Blood Moss in Mirage)
Kieran DragonWraith 71(Speed Run for Calypso card)
Adrian 13 (Questing with Mycin Frost and Jasmine Star)
Kieran 11 (Farming Grub Guardian for their rewards)
Hunter GhostBlade (The extra baggage space)

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
614
I'm tired of cheats. The worse they got, the less I wanted to figure them out. Plus they cost me all of the friends I had in the game that I used to work through them with.

I know a lot of people like them, but they have finally driven me away the same way they did my friends. I was just too stubborn to walk away 2 years ago when they all did.

I never played this game to face an extreme challenge, I played it to have fun. I don't find cheating bosses fun at all.

Aside from suggestions that I (and many others) have made already about making scalable content, or making sure that the tools you need to be successful against new challenges are not only available in optional and extremely difficult side content, I don't have any alternate options because at this point I've just given up.

My membership expires this weekend, so I'm out of here. Back to an old offline favourite, Civ III. I've been playing it the past couple nights and am having a blast!

Survivor
Dec 07, 2016
1
Have a cheat where the boss casts dampen magic (the old tc that limits all casters to 3 pips) or something to that similar effect. It would also be interesting to have a boss that negates all stats from gear.

A+ Student
Mar 31, 2009
1713
Winnie the Pooh!

I already am terrible at bosses!

What about a boss that has a secret weakness? Like if you hit with a spell that does 0 damage the boss does 10000 damage to self.

What about a boss that turns you into a newt? (Much similar to Baba Yaga's Turn you to a Egg?)

What about one that is moon and uses all those Shift Spells from Khrysalis?

What about The Fates from Aquila and they Always Put Shields on One, Blades on another and heals on a third and then use Dimension Shift Every few Rounds?

Just some ideas

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Professor Falmea on Mar 17, 2017 wrote:
Hello everyone! It’s Friday, and it’s time for a new topic!

We just finished this month’s episode of KI Live, we hope you were able to make it (or if you missed it, it will be up next week in permanent format). This was asked of us, but I liked it so much I wanted to save this one for a Feedback Friday.

Leolastat86 (on Twitter) asked us: Will cheating bosses continue To be the norm or are you looking at new, better, ways to increase level difficulty?

We’re constantly brainstorming new techniques for monsters to learn to keep fights interesting. We came up with something really unique to try out for later this year, and I can't wait for everyone to see it (though I can't spill the beans yet). However, I wanted to turn this one to the community for suggestions. How would you increase difficulty in bosses – through new and interesting “cheats” or some other way?

A very green Friday and a happy weekend to everyone!


Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!Save
sigh.

if cheats are going to be "the norm", then please keep them out of the main quest line. not all of us have the time, energy, or resources to deal with them.

there are tons of ways to add difficulty without stonewalling people.

-von

Defender
Dec 06, 2009
115
One thing I have noticed is that at some point most bosses and minions stopped trying to defend themselves at all, it just became more and more, attack bigger and harder while they mostly rely on their resistance. Give bosses more defensive capabilities...and not just against their opponent school.

Another thought is a boss that can switch schools randomly during battle...maybe one that uses moon magic, only a lot more effectively than the current moon magic spells. That would mean a player would have to be more strategic in their deck to compensate.

A third thing would be a boss that can take out pets for a few rounds would certainly make things harder for people with super pets. Something like an attack that knocks a pet out for 3 rounds if it uses a May Cast ability.

Defender
Apr 06, 2013
123
Professor Falmea on Mar 17, 2017 wrote:
Hello everyone! It’s Friday, and it’s time for a new topic!

We just finished this month’s episode of KI Live, we hope you were able to make it (or if you missed it, it will be up next week in permanent format). This was asked of us, but I liked it so much I wanted to save this one for a Feedback Friday.

Leolastat86 (on Twitter) asked us: Will cheating bosses continue To be the norm or are you looking at new, better, ways to increase level difficulty?

We’re constantly brainstorming new techniques for monsters to learn to keep fights interesting. We came up with something really unique to try out for later this year, and I can't wait for everyone to see it (though I can't spill the beans yet). However, I wanted to turn this one to the community for suggestions. How would you increase difficulty in bosses – through new and interesting “cheats” or some other way?

A very green Friday and a happy weekend to everyone!


Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!Save
Just to say, I don't mind cheating bosses, but when they are in the main story quest line, it really bothers me as I usually quest alone and they make it hard to pass; plus I'm life which makes things more worse. The exception is only when you fight the final boss of the world and I am ok with that. In side quests, I am also ok with that. Now back to the topic, I figured instead of making them having cheats, just increase their health and increase their AI. If you want a boss to really cheat, have the boss polymorph; or create a new, unique polymorph for each boss that allows them to do their many cheats. For example, if a boss usually cheats by randomly casts weakness, self heal, etc, they would do most of that in move by having turn in change into polymorph and casts those cheats in that turn instead. Also have them a strategy for against us wizards as we usually do to them. For example, if you were a storm or fire wiz, the boss would spend much of their moves in placing some weakness on you. If ice, boss would want to casts pierce spells to pierce through the defense of ice. If life or death, they would casts infection or similar spells to that wizard. If myth, they use spells similar like smoke to make them fizzle and balance, casts spells on them to shatter shields , blades, etc. I also like that some bosses are immune to certain spells and you should make that more common.

-120
Alejandro

Champion
Feb 06, 2010
418
Professor Falmea on Mar 17, 2017 wrote:
Hello everyone! It’s Friday, and it’s time for a new topic!

We just finished this month’s episode of KI Live, we hope you were able to make it (or if you missed it, it will be up next week in permanent format). This was asked of us, but I liked it so much I wanted to save this one for a Feedback Friday.

Leolastat86 (on Twitter) asked us: Will cheating bosses continue To be the norm or are you looking at new, better, ways to increase level difficulty?

We’re constantly brainstorming new techniques for monsters to learn to keep fights interesting. We came up with something really unique to try out for later this year, and I can't wait for everyone to see it (though I can't spill the beans yet). However, I wanted to turn this one to the community for suggestions. How would you increase difficulty in bosses – through new and interesting “cheats” or some other way?

A very green Friday and a happy weekend to everyone!


Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!Save
Something simple, a duel circle where you have no idea whose turn it will be next.


A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1895
I'm all for intense cheating as long as it remains OPTIONAL and not on the main quest line. Or, if it's on the main quest line, please scale it to the number of wizards inside the instance. Some of us can't form functioning teams of four and shouldn't be punished for that.

Now, as for ideas....

No on insane levels of health. Just ... NO. Azteca dragged on endlessly with battles that took over 30 minutes because of the ridiculous health. No on long, boring slogs. I want a battle where I'm at high risk of dying if I don't defend myself while also setting up a hit. I want to fight smarter, not harder or longer.

So please, make the A.I. smarter.

Have them stacking blades on themselves instead of randomly giving the wrong school blade to one another. A Fire boss gives his +35% Fire blade to his Life sidekick and it goes to waste. Have the Fire boss blade himself. Have him use a Balance blade next. Give them Sharpen Blade and Potent trap. This will force us to defend ourselves instead of just stacking blades for a one-hit.

Have them heal their weakest team mate instead of casting a random heal. Have them shield their weakest instead of random casting.

Let huge bosses cloak themselves or Beguile us. Make it harder for us to figure out what they're planning.

Let them call up a minion like Baba Yaga did, only have that minion be a surprise triggered from something random that we did. Have 3 or 4 unique triggers and each one calls up a different minion, but then mix it up per instance so we never know which trigger is active when the battle starts. We'll be forced to innovate every single time.

In short, let them act more like PVP.

Yes, I'm going to HATE how hard that makes the battle, but PVP dynamics would create a real challenge that is based on a smart opponent rather than a cheating criminal.

Alia Misthaven

Survivor
Sep 16, 2008
18
I honestly can say that cheats never felt fun since it literally gave an unfair disadvantage (especially for solo players and players who can't get groups for a boss fight).

Card games are difficult to tailor without inserting new cards into the system and even then you don't want to rely on them being in a player's deck.

A few fun ideas I can think of are:

1) A boss decides to swap your deck with a specific one, you have to fight a specific deck against his specific one for a tactical fight. The only foreseeable issue with this idea is it would have to be for a solo fight.

2) a boss with minions that change the element you are going to strike and defend with and all swords and traps could become 'prismatic', meaning you need to time your strike to an element that you wish to hit with.

3) Group Boss Idea: Have all members fighting a boss in one area, however if there are more than one player in the team, half the team phase into another state where they fight a 'ghost' side of the boss and have to defeat this weaker version or run out of time before rejoining the main fight. Defeating this version of the boss could do extra damage to the main boss in order to give a reason for the imagers to defeat the ghost version.

4) The boss in question could cast special trap spells with an added twist, if the players trigger then they could get A 'cursed card' in their deck that does nothing but will fill up your hand if you keep getting them. The trick to the fight would be defeating the boss before your deck is filled with useless cards.

Those are just simple brainstorm ideas but I could see myself playing them. :3

Defender
Feb 26, 2012
144
I'd like to see bosses with a wider variety of base stat increases. Like one having max accuracy or max crit block.

Maybe a boss that requires to use a certain type of spell at a certain time. Or maybe a copy cat cheat boss, where to boss gets a free spell equal to the spell your wizard cast.

Mastermind
Nov 27, 2013
363
I'ma gonna go off-topic to make a suggestion about pet training. In the game when we're training our pet, our friends who try to communicate with us get an unfriendly message that says, "so and and so is not available right now." I think this is unfortunate.

We have solo pet training and we have competitive pet derby, but it would be nice to have cooperative pet training in which friends who happen to be simultaneously working on a pet project could continue to engage the game without being isolated from one another.

I don't know what form this would take, but it could be hilarious for example some version of one of the mini-games in which the characters and pets interacted, such as tag or food fight. Or maybe a version of the path of the ninja or grumpy gobblers where pets would be working together to overcome the obstacles in order to receive a snack and/or pet XP.

It's my suggestion for providing interaction between players that is not interrupted by training a pet. I hope you guys will give some consideration to this potential improvement of the game. Thank you.

Defender
Apr 14, 2014
111
rusher2828 on Mar 19, 2017 wrote:
I'd like to see bosses with a wider variety of base stat increases. Like one having max accuracy or max crit block.

Maybe a boss that requires to use a certain type of spell at a certain time. Or maybe a copy cat cheat boss, where to boss gets a free spell equal to the spell your wizard cast.
I would say yes. It could be an interruption spell, where the boss says "Copycat", and, with or without the casting animation, will cast the same spell that a wizard cast. Battles might have to be planned out carefully.

Maybe it should be a Mirage boss for a side quest where the boss is a "Copyqhat".

Survivor
Feb 03, 2014
2
As has been stated before, I play this to have fun as it is a game! I don't find it enjoyable to have to replay a boss half a dozen times or more because of all the cheats. I feel adding more cheats is a terrible idea, especially for those of us who play alone. Personally, I think the difficulty of the bosses right now is plenty, maybe even a little much in some instances. Some twists could be interesting, but not cheats.

Survivor
Jul 20, 2016
15
Geographer
Sep 07, 2011
823
The original version of Mirage was great. I like cheat bosses, but better when there are not too many at once. It's like solving a puzzle.

how to do it without blades?
through a shield or other defense?
do I have to defeat one enemy at a time? or all at once? or hit on a certain round?

It can be frustrating when you go in expecting a normal fight but suddenly hit a wall, but it's SO satisfying when you break through. One suggestion -- players might appreciate a warning that a fight they are about to enter has cheats. I usually carry a pretty small deck questing, which works more efficiently for normal fights, but might leave me without counters to cheats. Most of the complaints I hear about cheats seem to be because players were unpleasantly surprised. Maybe there could be a special sigil icon for cheaters?

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Gemma Luna on Mar 22, 2017 wrote:
The original version of Mirage was great. I like cheat bosses, but better when there are not too many at once. It's like solving a puzzle.

how to do it without blades?
through a shield or other defense?
do I have to defeat one enemy at a time? or all at once? or hit on a certain round?

It can be frustrating when you go in expecting a normal fight but suddenly hit a wall, but it's SO satisfying when you break through. One suggestion -- players might appreciate a warning that a fight they are about to enter has cheats. I usually carry a pretty small deck questing, which works more efficiently for normal fights, but might leave me without counters to cheats. Most of the complaints I hear about cheats seem to be because players were unpleasantly surprised. Maybe there could be a special sigil icon for cheaters?
yes, i agree re: special sigil icon for cheaters.

while i'm sick of cheats in general, at least have the decency to give players a heads-up. if i know i don't have the time or energy to finish an instance, i won't bother starting it.

-von

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Freshta on Mar 19, 2017 wrote:
I'm all for intense cheating as long as it remains OPTIONAL and not on the main quest line. Or, if it's on the main quest line, please scale it to the number of wizards inside the instance. Some of us can't form functioning teams of four and shouldn't be punished for that.

Now, as for ideas....

No on insane levels of health. Just ... NO. Azteca dragged on endlessly with battles that took over 30 minutes because of the ridiculous health. No on long, boring slogs. I want a battle where I'm at high risk of dying if I don't defend myself while also setting up a hit. I want to fight smarter, not harder or longer.

So please, make the A.I. smarter.

Have them stacking blades on themselves instead of randomly giving the wrong school blade to one another. A Fire boss gives his +35% Fire blade to his Life sidekick and it goes to waste. Have the Fire boss blade himself. Have him use a Balance blade next. Give them Sharpen Blade and Potent trap. This will force us to defend ourselves instead of just stacking blades for a one-hit.

Have them heal their weakest team mate instead of casting a random heal. Have them shield their weakest instead of random casting.

Let huge bosses cloak themselves or Beguile us. Make it harder for us to figure out what they're planning.

Let them call up a minion like Baba Yaga did, only have that minion be a surprise triggered from something random that we did. Have 3 or 4 unique triggers and each one calls up a different minion, but then mix it up per instance so we never know which trigger is active when the battle starts. We'll be forced to innovate every single time.

In short, let them act more like PVP.

Yes, I'm going to HATE how hard that makes the battle, but PVP dynamics would create a real challenge that is based on a smart opponent rather than a cheating criminal.

Alia Misthaven
"I want to fight smarter, not harder or longer," followed by "In short, let them act more like PVP" is kind of an oxymoron. you are aware that most pvp matches last 30 minutes to an hour, no?

-

pvp-style play belongs in the arena, which is where people would be if they wanted this sort of thing, and never should have crossed over into pve.

this is the reason that this game is hemorrhaging casual players left and right. "intense cheating" does not belong in the main quest line; either save it for content that is truly optional (not "optional", like darkmoor) or get rid of it.

i'm okay with minor cheats (ie: the mimics in mirage that changed schools every few rounds, or pip-locking players). but anything more than that is excessive if the filthiest of us casual peasants are expected to complete it.



-von

1