Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards

High Five Ghost on Mar 13, 2017 wrote:

My biggest concern would be how this system could be used by trolls to harm people, if it comes down to reporting people in some way.

Say for example you team up with someone and they don't do anything. They got you to be the muscle and do all the heavy lifting. They don't care about the drops, all they want is someone to clear the dungeon for them so that they can get the XP or questing progress. You want to leave and stop wasting your time? Sure, go ahead. They'll just report you.

Or you team up with someone who's being rude and belligerent, but within the confines of the rules. They're not swearing around the filters or anything, just being jerks. Now they're holding you hostage in this dungeon, subjecting you to their "torture", because if you leave they'll report you. Do you stay and put up with it, or leave and suffer the consequences of an action they bullied you into taking?

It doesn't matter if you report them back and sanctions against you are eventually lifted, or reputation restored, you've still suffered at least a temporary punishment in the interim while the case is reviewed when you didn't do anything bad in the first place. That is assuming all punishments being discussed are instantaneous, and not sent in for review first like other instances of reporting.

If it's not instant, then that means KI has all of these extra cases to review. And how do they prove intent? Is it a unilateral decision? "We've assumed you did wrong, therefore you did, and you shall be punished." Or does the "offender" have an opportunity to state their case? If they fled on purpose and lie saying they had a valid reason, then what?

People who want to cause chaos will do so with whatever tools they have available to them. I see something like this being twisted to those ends. You're creating a new problem and not necessarily solving the old one.

I agree with everything you say. I have a post on the Pirate101 boards describing every kind of troll I ( and other players ) have met through team up in The Tower of Moo Manchu.
( If you want to read it - "Towering Personalities". )
Strangely, none of the pirate players have suggested a punishment for these trolls ( some of them quitters, some of them we wish would quit to give us a break from their troll-ish behavior. )
KI treats quitting a team up differently in P101, you get a ten minute time-out if you confirm to team up, but then back out at the last few seconds. And no one else is punished if they just leave the dungeon.

SparkleTude on Mar 9, 2017 wrote:

I'm not sure if punishment is the right word but I wish there was a way to prevent it.

Half an hour is a long time to wait for someone to return before figuring out they're not coming back.

I've gotten so that I ask for a plan or sometimes for everyone to 'friend up' with each other first. Then at least you can port to them, or them to you and find out what's going on if things go awry.

Maybe the first one to never come back could be blamed but then again if the person was caused to leave by the acting out of the rest of the team, they'd be unfairly penalized too.

So I'm not sure if punishment is the way as much as maybe prevention, but I have no idea what that would be.

Looks like we're pretty much in agreement on everything, then.

Sometimes, I find myself wondering why quitters do what they do. They wanted to join the dungeon for some reason, but then they back out. They probably didn't simply join to grief people by immediately leaving.

If the reasons are known, maybe the issue could be addressed in another way. For instance, if someone was trying to start a dungeon with a friend and ended up in a separate group, they may end up quitting. Maybe Wizard101 needs better Group features, such as allowing a full group to simply start a dungeon using a separate "Join a Team" type button.

SparkleTude on Mar 14, 2017 wrote:

Anecorbie mentioned something that bothers me also: Joining a teamup, thinking the person will be grateful for the help, especially since you know it is a hard dungeon. Sitting there while the clock ticks down to start time, only to hear the 'thump' as the person who asked for the teamup, backs out at the last second, before it began. That's two minutes or so of sheer boredom sitting waiting to help someone only to have them back out.
I always wonder why they did that. Did they want a helper from a different school? They can't all have emergencies in real life that just happen on the very last second before start time. Also trolling me means they'd have to sit there watching the clock tick down so they backed out at the last possible second. Seems like a small payoff for two minutes of boredom??

Then if I don't also quit the teamup before it starts, I get pulled into the battle. If I flee the battle I'm on a ten minute time out that carries over into my next log in. Doesn't seem fair? Maybe one thing KI *can do* might be to automatically end the teamup once the person who called for it, backs out. Especially if the 'team' was only the requesting person and the person who was going to help.

Liam brought up a good reminder too. It's hard to do a teamup on a dungeon with friends, because if you click team up anyone can join, but if it's a dungeon then you have to click through "you know this dungeon is going to be long..." pop up, hoping it's before everyone else has gone in. It would be nice to send invitations to dungeons.

Liam: I am not sure why people back out or quit either. If trolling it seems a lot of work for a small payoff. But then I don't really understand that line of thinking. Maybe to some people it's hilarious to imagine people's dismay. I do think at times it's just that they changed their mind (still a bit rude if that's all it is, and others joined), or had something come up in real life.

My experience with quitters in Wizard seems to imply this: if they quit a team up during count down, it's because there were only two in the team up. Some dungeons require three or more to make a successful run. I understand when someone does that, I confess I've done this when trying to find a team up for the Rat or Grandfather Spider.
Another quitter type you find here, but is rare in Pirate, are those whom I call gear or stat snobs - these quitters look at how you're equipped or at your stats and decide "Meh, they won't be able to finish and/or force me to do all the work."
In Pirate the most common troll is the last minute quitter, you get a full team, you've confirmed, the timer ticks down to the last few seconds - then they quit! As long as they didn't confirm, they receive no punishment.
Then there are the dungeon quitter trolls ( deliberate quitters ) they just back out of the dungeon - and they get no punishment. They do this many times over many team ups.
Unfortunately, there seems to be nothing anyone can do to control human nature, some get their jollies from annoying others, it's a control issue for them.
Fortunately, there are more well adjusted, socialized individuals in this world than the other kind - it's just our bad luck that we meet the trolls in some team ups.

SparkleTude on Apr 12, 2017 wrote:

Good points anecorbie.

In my case I usually pick easy (for me) teamups just to help and sometimes for quick drops to sell for quick gold. Usually just to help since most of my wizards don't spend gold often.

I try not to do a longer dungeon unless I have some time and want to do a dungeon (just in the mood to do one, hard to explain), but usually it's a one-shot battle. I almost always pick Wizard City or Krokotopia. I remember how hard those Krok bosses seemed at the time and how much of a relief it was to have the occasional help with a boss. I've done some Krok dungeons for that reason.

So in my case it probably isn't a stat snob since those are battles my level can handle pretty quickly. But it could be they fear a two person teamup. I hadn't thought of that. And of course most dropouts are before the battle begins.

I stopped doing longer dungeons because of the trolling and dropouts. Once in a great while I'll risk it again to try to help someone. Then if they say "oops sorry" or just log out I feel really duped.

I remember how frustrating at lower levels it was anytime a player dropped out in the hardest dungeons.

Because of this, I now join the all the hardest dungeons to help players successfully beat the dungeon.

This is kind of a chicken and egg situation. The best team for dungeons would be to go with people on your friends list. But how do you get the opportunity to meet new people if they flee the dungeon and give negative impressions?Unfortunately, that's just the nature of life. But you can always look at yourself and have patience, be kind, and maybe others will see it too because I'm sure will all have been left in dungeons.

GenerousElizabeth1... on Jul 3, 2017 wrote:

Look, while giving a punishment for fleeing is a great idea. I personally disagree on the matter that sometimes I am doing a dungeon with my friends and I get low and he can't heal. I flee then I return with full health and mana and then he can flee to go grab more health. So yes, I agree that there should be a punishment, but that would remove a great ability to flee to get more health.

I think they meant flee permanently. Saying you'll be right back and then actually returning is usually okay. :)

Patrick Ravenbane on Mar 9, 2017 wrote:

How can KI determine a punishment for the reasons why people flee? I agree with a couple of people. There should not be a punishment for someone fleeing a dungeon because what if the one who fled and didn't come back for a reason beyond his control such as, what if the player lost connection and can't come back? Is it his or her fault? Is it his or her fault if the parent ask their kid or teen to do something like; time to do your chores or come here and watch your little brother/sister for a while etc... or the parent needs the computer for who know how long? That player should be punched for that? That's not fair. This is a family entertainment game for those to have fun not a police action. One the other hand if players act up and causes a corruption by trolling, making people flee, then maybe that troublemaker should be punished not the one who fled.

Maybe the effect only happens if they Fled and didn't come back and the effect only stops when the dungeon is done or if all players flee from the dungeon and don't come back

Yes, fleeing players are annoying, and I do wish that something could be done about them, but there doesn't seem to be a way to make a reliable and fair system. If a player had a real life emergency or event to attend to, something like a 90% debuff seems hardly fair. Having a "reliability ranking" could again be a pain for people who have rl emegencies to attend to, and having a low ranking over something you can't control would make other people not want to play with you. I'm sorry if this is a problem for you, but there are always going to be trolls and people who just have to leave, and there isn't a reliable way to counteract this. You just have to deal with it.

Patrick Ravenbane on Mar 9, 2017 wrote:

How can KI determine a punishment for the reasons why people flee? I agree with a couple of people. There should not be a punishment for someone fleeing a dungeon because what if the one who fled and didn't come back for a reason beyond his control such as, what if the player lost connection and can't come back? Is it his or her fault? Is it his or her fault if the parent ask their kid or teen to do something like; time to do your chores or come here and watch your little brother/sister for a while etc... or the parent needs the computer for who know how long? That player should be punched for that? That's not fair. This is a family entertainment game for those to have fun not a police action. One the other hand if players act up and causes a corruption by trolling, making people flee, then maybe that troublemaker should be punished not the one who fled.

Ravenbane is right, you cannot punish every wizard who flees a duel because there a many different reasons for doing so i.e. lost connection, parents told them to get off, computer gets unplugged, etc... You also have to remember there are some rather mean players who will tell defeated players flee and kill the boss while they're away so the others receive no credit or loot, and others or troll wizards until they flee the duel.

I've had both of these happen to me while playing the game, and having that happen to you alone hurts more than most people think. I've had high level players say they'll help, then leave everyone high and dry, tell us to flee then defeated the boss while we tried to get back into the dungeon, so only they got loot and experience and were able to complete the quest. What worse is having to watch a troller stand by and laugh at me and my friends while we're struggling to defeat the final boss and berate all of us because we're all "noobs", just to make us flee so he could bring his max lvl friends to steal the loot, experience points, and quest completion out from under us.

After some is hurt like that by another player, should you really need to rub more salt in that wound? Should you really evoke a stricter punishment on players who were duped out of their duel? Or players fled just to get away from a taunting troll?

I understand some people abuse the flee button, and do so repeated to screw with duels or to prevent other players from joining on purpose, or to troll other players. And I don't know if that kind of action counts as a reportable incident, but part of me believes it is and if it's not than it should be. But from my understanding KingsIlse takes great care in analyzing what happened and which party is at fault in that kind of scenario and administers punishment accordingly.

There's no easy answer to fix a problem like this, true, and any form of solution must be considered with great care to avoid punishing innocent players.