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Bad Juju Spam

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1113
deathsummoner4 on May 25, 2018 wrote:
Btw, I'm certain that Elucidate was never banned from PvP, just that it has now been retired from the game and can no longer be obtainable from anywhere else, unless you've managed to keep some to this day or traded with another player who still has it.

It says on the spell's Wiki page on Wizard101 Central:
"This card is retired and can only be obtained via trade." If it were banned, the spell's image would be updated and have that No PvP symbol, like it does here on http://www.wizard101central.com/wiki/ItemCard:Mass_Feint#axzz5GSy822p4 for Mass Feint.
You are partly correct. Actually Elucidate was banned from PVP at fist do to too many PVP player complaints. Then KI retired it from the game very shortly after that believe the spell was being abused in PVE as well. I can be wrong but this is what I heard by others players.

Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1113
deathsummoner4 on May 25, 2018 wrote:
"I'm talking about if people want to abuse the use of Bad Juju in the means of a sure win, then maybe the spell should be kicked out of PVP." And how do you think the complete ban of Bad Juju would affect Death? Elucidate never really affected anyone because it's a Sun spell and no one can become Sun wizards themselves. Guardian Spirit has been abused too and you're not pointing that out because you're main/favorite is Life (I assume, judging from your character icon)? I personally don't want to see my opponent revive multiple times and have the match drag on longer than necessary. Doesn't that sound familiar to how Juju matches usually go? Sorry, but your proposed solution doesn't even think about others and you proved my point correct. What you are showing is bias, not a desire to have everything be 'fair' for everyone else. Otherwise, you would also be thinking of a solution to counter Death's loss if Juju were to banned, not just for those who wouldn't be affected by that ban. But let's face
it, you do not wish to see them strive and be on par with others. Even if you have a Death school, you are still capable of showing bias. After all, there is such a thing called "main" or "favorite" school(s). Like I said before and I'll mention it once again, everyone else = including us Deaths too. Not just Ice, Balance, Fire, Myth, Life and Storm.

"Remember using this kind of strategy will eventually destroy PVP for good because no one will want to play with you." You also seem to be forgetting that there are more wizards of other schools doing PvP than there are with Deaths across all levels, and that PvP has already been destroyed a year or two ago, if not years ago since the arena has never truly been equally balanced. Other schools have a ridiculously overwhelming advantage over the low tier ones, and it has been like that for quite a few years now.
I hardly use Guarding Spirit and Life is not my main/ favorite. I play Storm and Fire Just as much. Please don't jump to conclusions about me. I am being fair I do care and think about others more than you realize. That's why I have good team work ethics. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time posting what i said on this thread. Just because my point of view does not match your expectations does not mean I'm I don't care.

Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1113
deathsummoner4 on May 24, 2018 wrote:
The word 'fair' gets thrown around way too easily and often people have a completely different meaning to what they originally said. Banning or nerfing Juju would be great news for everyone, except for Death wizards...who would basically have nothing else if that were to happen.

I agree that Juju has been abused, but do people ever wonder why many Deaths go for the Juju Jade 'strategy'? When people say "to keep it fair", I think what they really mean is to keep it fair just for themselves and not for everyone else. Everyone else = including us Deaths too.

And might I mention that Juju spamming isn't the only thing that's contributing to the many issues we have in PvP. We also have Ice, Balance and Fire to worry about, as well as Guardian Spirit, so anyone who really sees the true meaning in the word fair would point this out and any other PvP concerns when bringing up 'fairness', instead of just wholly pointing the blame and everything else that has got to do with PvP being unfair to the "cheater" Death wizards, who have no control over what spells they get.

If they want to fix an issue and find a solution to that problem, they should also think about how a nerf/ban of a spell would affect that school and find ways to make up for their loss instead of just fixing it for the people who aren't affected by that change. That is not finding a solution or fixing an issue...that's called selfishness.
Spamming Bad Juju the why it's being used is being complained about by many PVP players. Someone getting a -90, -90, -90, -90, etc... over their head not giving them a chance to have a decent hit Is not fair play to your matches. Guardian Spirit doesn't do that. You can still have a powerful hit, swing around and hit again for a defeat before another Guardian spirit is cast. Yes PVP 1v1 can make the battles more difficult fighting against spammers. I didn't see many complaints at all about Guardian Spirit. so I don't see a problem with that spell and no I'm not saying that because I play life.

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
deathsummoner4 on May 25, 2018 wrote:
Fire is incredibly overpowered with their traps and I've only really gotten to realize this a few days ago. I saw this match between two max wizards, a Death hitter vs a Fire. While I'm not gonna say their names, let's just call the Death guy "S" and the Fire girl "V". S only had the chance to both blade and shield twice, before V eventually defeated him with just two hits: Ramp and Scorching. All she had to do was place a Fire Beetle TC, a Fire Beetle pet card and Fuel on S in order to win. She landed a critical with Ramp and when S was open for attacks, the game just had to give her a shadow pip at that very moment. How coincidental. She had four pips that round, so you guessed it, S was wrecked with a Scorching within just a few rounds of their match. It was crazy. There's a huge, ridiculous gap between Death and Fire. I knew the likely victor of the match before it even ended. That just shows how unbalanced PvP is, it shouldn't be like that. And people wonder why some of us Deaths turn to Juju spamming. THIS is one of the many examples and scenarios that simply shows why we are weak as hitters and are more suitable as Jades.
I know exactly what match you're talking about because that was actually me. My death Sean skullwalker vs Victoria Ward. I was second with no way to win.

Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1113
wakaflame201 on May 25, 2018 wrote:
If bad juju spell is unethical and unprofessional then spells like fire beetle, Hephaestus, rampage, ashen bones, magma colossus, efreet, guardian spirit, rat illusionist, myth king Art, gaze, lore, availing hands, balance efreet, icebird, abominable weaver, reindeer knight and InsaneBolt are also.

Balances going right into shrike because they know they don't have to worry about not being set shielded against. Lore spamming obsessively and vigorously. They have a 25% damage bubble that hits twice and has a chance to buff on the opponent's bubble before changing it, not to mention which using spells like hydra, gaze, chimera and spectral; they can buff using their balance damage stats. Which is similar to how storm damage buff insane even though its a moon spell. But how is that ethical and professional?

Fires has 3 versions of fire beetle they can spam in an immediate one shot? Fire beetle being 35% 2 pips for 3 traps, while death and life scarabs are 2 pip 1 30% trap? On top of that they also have spells like efreet and rampages that do mass with completely broken side effects. Essentially fire has a spell for every situation in pvp. Plus having some of the most unguardable spells in pvp. Also ashen bone tc being stronger than a fully epic enchanted skeletal dragon.But I guess that would be ethical and professional?

Last example is Ice. They're supposed to be a tank class but can brainlessly bubble shrike into a bird following a weaver to complete one shot. But again ethical and professional? Now has deaths spell (Reindeer Knight)

Is it impossible to pvp on death "No"
Now people respecting and praising offensive death but are they winning at the same rate as other schools?"No"
Personally I never jaded but how death is now I become more and more conflicted to do so.

Other schools pov are they spamming brainless bad juju wasting time and deaths pov is people brainlessly spam
mass damage spikes.

Didnt see people complain when death spells get nerfed and removed.
It's nice of you to share information about other schools and theirs spells but they're all irrelevant in this matter. This topic is about Bad Juju spam and Death School not other schools. Lets step back and think about the very first post said, "This person spammed me Bad Juju over 45 times I could do a single and they have reshuffles to go with it along with empower to gain the pips" The sentence didn't quit make sense. I assumed the n'tin could =couldn't was forgotten making it sound more sense. For another words, that person played unfair against Lucas Waterstone123 by abusing the use of Bad Juju which to me is the same as cheating your way through the battle regardless if theirs rules or not. Trigon101060 mentioned; " Bad Juju isn't exactly cheating. More like it's very unethical and unprofessional". So why did you not attack him the way you attacked me when words I said came from him. I'll say this another way; It's not the spell it's self, it's how you perform the use of bad Juju against other playing is known as unethical game play by many and can be call cheating. Now do you people get what i mean? This is what I believe in my line of thoughts and it's not going to change. Have fun.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 25, 2018 wrote:
I hardly use Guarding Spirit and Life is not my main/ favorite. I play Storm and Fire Just as much. Please don't jump to conclusions about me. I am being fair I do care and think about others more than you realize. That's why I have good team work ethics. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time posting what i said on this thread. Just because my point of view does not match your expectations does not mean I'm I don't care.
I apologize. A few of the things you've previously said just sounded similar to the very biased players I've had to deal with in the past and it made me a bit mad, so I'm sorry for that.

My overall point that I'm trying to get across is that people who usually oppose Bad Juju or the Death school in general often doesn't care what happens to us. They claim to be all for fairness, but they only mention solutions for themselves since they wouldn't be affected by any of those changes they've stated. I'm just out here trying to defend my school and any of my fellow wizards who felt being a hitter was pretty much hopeless, not the Juju spamming 'strategy' itself. Even us Deaths know how unfair it is, but our school is simply just too terrible in this current Age. And in all honesty, it has been like that for quite a few years now.

I just hope KI will one day listen to the voices of the PvP community and find a solution for everybody.

Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1113
deathsummoner4 on May 25, 2018 wrote:
"I'm talking about if people want to abuse the use of Bad Juju in the means of a sure win, then maybe the spell should be kicked out of PVP." And how do you think the complete ban of Bad Juju would affect Death? Elucidate never really affected anyone because it's a Sun spell and no one can become Sun wizards themselves. Guardian Spirit has been abused too and you're not pointing that out because you're main/favorite is Life (I assume, judging from your character icon)? I personally don't want to see my opponent revive multiple times and have the match drag on longer than necessary. Doesn't that sound familiar to how Juju matches usually go? Sorry, but your proposed solution doesn't even think about others and you proved my point correct. What you are showing is bias, not a desire to have everything be 'fair' for everyone else. Otherwise, you would also be thinking of a solution to counter Death's loss if Juju were to banned, not just for those who wouldn't be affected by that ban. But let's face
it, you do not wish to see them strive and be on par with others. Even if you have a Death school, you are still capable of showing bias. After all, there is such a thing called "main" or "favorite" school(s). Like I said before and I'll mention it once again, everyone else = including us Deaths too. Not just Ice, Balance, Fire, Myth, Life and Storm.

"Remember using this kind of strategy will eventually destroy PVP for good because no one will want to play with you." You also seem to be forgetting that there are more wizards of other schools doing PvP than there are with Deaths across all levels, and that PvP has already been destroyed a year or two ago, if not years ago since the arena has never truly been equally balanced. Other schools have a ridiculously overwhelming advantage over the low tier ones, and it has been like that for quite a few years now.
ok, first of all I read your posts and I'm getting insulted by you jumping to conclusions about me. I'm not thinking about just myself, I'm not confused, I'm not misunderstand or selfish and i'm not definitely not thinking bias . Do you know what that word really means? it's not a good word to say around. I'm not that way at all. I'm well aware the difference between PVP and PVE. Yes, Death is assumed weak by many in PVP but spamming Bad Juju the way it's happening to make up the school's strength does not make it right. Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell. Casting Bad Juju helps in PVP but will not make the Death useless if not. Spamming Bad Juju in a way some people are doing is abusing the use of the spell and it's a good way to have it banned from PVP if too many people complain about it. Their is no good solution to fix this issue because nerf or make changes to spells will affect PVE causing more complaints. That's why many spells are no-PVP However Jade gear needs to be fixed. You keep mentioning a solution is need, common sense and telling others they are think bias and not being open-minded making you seem like a smart person Yet I never once heard you come up with a solution yourself. Their is a say;" if you can talk, can you do the walk?" From yours and my posts, I'd like to say: We both have different point of view. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions very and I'm sticking with mine

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 25, 2018 wrote:
Spamming Bad Juju the why it's being used is being complained about by many PVP players. Someone getting a -90, -90, -90, -90, etc... over their head not giving them a chance to have a decent hit Is not fair play to your matches. Guardian Spirit doesn't do that. You can still have a powerful hit, swing around and hit again for a defeat before another Guardian spirit is cast. Yes PVP 1v1 can make the battles more difficult fighting against spammers. I didn't see many complaints at all about Guardian Spirit. so I don't see a problem with that spell and no I'm not saying that because I play life.
I agree how annoying Bad Juju is, believe me, I've had to face quite a few them in the past. Even in tourneys like Quick Match, which is crazy. However, I still don't think I'd be able to support the complete ban of Juju, or any changes directly affecting the actual spell. That's gonna be the end of Death PvP, or at least for the mid-high levels. The complete removal of the Cloak trick to create/multiply treasure card versions of Juju is something I would be completely fine with, as well as the complete ban of Jade gear from 1v1. That would only leave us with 8 Bad Jujus, which isn't too bad compared to like 50+ Bad Jujus originally. BUT...if they do choose to completely ban Bad Juju from PvP, they should at least make up for Death's loss by giving us some great hitting spells + an official damage bubble (the same goes for Life). That would definitely encourage many of us to try PvP again and steer away from another defensive 'strategy' like Juju spamming. I don't see how Death shouldn't or doesn't deserve a boost, considering we've been at the very bottom for nearly every Age we've had. They should really focus on improving the low tier schools like Death, Storm, Myth and Life this time. Ice, Balance and Fire are fine as they are. They've had their chance and time to rule the arena.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
wakaflame201 on May 26, 2018 wrote:
I know exactly what match you're talking about because that was actually me. My death Sean skullwalker vs Victoria Ward. I was second with no way to win.
Oh, I did somewhat had a feeling you were Sean himself. I think I've seen you mention it in another post, but I didn't want to give out your character's name for privacy. That match was definitely unjust. It seemed like the game knew when to give her a shadow pip too.

Historian
Jun 19, 2010
657
LucasWaterstone123 on May 22, 2018 wrote:
This must be a joke, I mean it has to be. twice not once; but twice I did a rank PVP and got the same person. NOTE I am not even private I am below private and I got a warlord twice even though I did not select outside my range. but that's beside the point. this person spammed me bad juju for over 45 times I could do a single thing and they had reshuffles to go with it along with empower to gain the pips. they used three types of feint and used dark nova along with curse and hex. now how am I a STORM wizard suppose to compete with that? my spells are already mostly chance based and luck has a big role in the battle already. my health is already low so I can barely tank but yet I can get spammed with 45+ reshuffled of bad jujus. I had two extra reshuffles and I still could do anything because the person shields and juju spams. id have to have near 45 wild bolts spams and they would all do nothing. I have been a player in this game since 2008 and honestly it has been a fun ride and I have payed just as much as anybody else in this game has but I think this is it. Certain people are ruining the experience for most players and I'm constantly seeing broken parts of the game being abused and it is us who play by the rules that get the bad end. I am not saying you guys haven't done your job because I know you do it the best you can ( as you did with the dispels) however take time to play and look into this matter please. we need you and the support team. thank you
The game can and should introduce spells called Cleanse-Quake and Transfer JuJu.

Cleanse-Quake
This is an amped up version of Cleanse, that removes all negative enhancers cast on you, or your entire team.

Transfer Juju
All Juju on you and your teammates get transferred onto opposing team.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
ok, first of all I read your posts and I'm getting insulted by you jumping to conclusions about me. I'm not thinking about just myself, I'm not confused, I'm not misunderstand or selfish and i'm not definitely not thinking bias . Do you know what that word really means? it's not a good word to say around. I'm not that way at all. I'm well aware the difference between PVP and PVE. Yes, Death is assumed weak by many in PVP but spamming Bad Juju the way it's happening to make up the school's strength does not make it right. Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell. Casting Bad Juju helps in PVP but will not make the Death useless if not. Spamming Bad Juju in a way some people are doing is abusing the use of the spell and it's a good way to have it banned from PVP if too many people complain about it. Their is no good solution to fix this issue because nerf or make changes to spells will affect PVE causing more complaints. That's why many spells are no-PVP However Jade gear needs to be fixed. You keep mentioning a solution is need, common sense and telling others they are think bias and not being open-minded making you seem like a smart person Yet I never once heard you come up with a solution yourself. Their is a say;" if you can talk, can you do the walk?" From yours and my posts, I'd like to say: We both have different point of view. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions very and I'm sticking with mine
Again, sorry if I offended you, but I felt offended too when you mentioned the word 'cheater' in your previous post. I really don't want to go back to arguing again, but we Deaths have always been misunderstood. Bad Juju is not cheating. I agree that what they are doing is unfair, but they're not cheating in any form or manner.

I have a friend who happens to be one of those so-called "cheaters". He never wanted to Juju spam in the first place, but his rank was just so bad when he played offensive and could not move himself up. Juju spamming helped turn his rank around and now he's currently Warlord. Before that, he literally had around 300 rank as Private. I saw three Death wizards in the arena the other day, all maxes, which is quite a rare sighting nowadays. But two of them who were hitters had quite the low ranks. One literally had a 12 rank and the other somewhere in the 300s. The third person was a Juju spammer who had a rank of somewhere in the 600s (I can't exactly remember). But notice the difference between the Death hitters and the Juju spammers?

And I did already mention a solution in one of my earlier posts: "My proposed solution is to remove the Cloak trick that enables others to multiply Bad Juju as treasure cards and ban Jade gear in a 1v1, instead of just wholly banning Bad Juju itself. And Jade gear is quite useful in team PvP for healers (especially Life) or anyone who prefers a defensive play and want their team to last more than a few rounds. 8 Bad Jujus (our deck's current spell limit) aren't that much and can easily be taken off with wand hits and low-pip hits."

I have been mentioning solutions for the past Bad Juju threads and even started one myself. And I'm sticking with my opinion too. But in all seriousness, if you are sticking by your solution of just finding ways to eliminate Bad Juju and not caring/understanding how that would affect every Death wizard (including the non-Juju spammers), that is not fairness. Sorry.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
ok, first of all I read your posts and I'm getting insulted by you jumping to conclusions about me. I'm not thinking about just myself, I'm not confused, I'm not misunderstand or selfish and i'm not definitely not thinking bias . Do you know what that word really means? it's not a good word to say around. I'm not that way at all. I'm well aware the difference between PVP and PVE. Yes, Death is assumed weak by many in PVP but spamming Bad Juju the way it's happening to make up the school's strength does not make it right. Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell. Casting Bad Juju helps in PVP but will not make the Death useless if not. Spamming Bad Juju in a way some people are doing is abusing the use of the spell and it's a good way to have it banned from PVP if too many people complain about it. Their is no good solution to fix this issue because nerf or make changes to spells will affect PVE causing more complaints. That's why many spells are no-PVP However Jade gear needs to be fixed. You keep mentioning a solution is need, common sense and telling others they are think bias and not being open-minded making you seem like a smart person Yet I never once heard you come up with a solution yourself. Their is a say;" if you can talk, can you do the walk?" From yours and my posts, I'd like to say: We both have different point of view. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions very and I'm sticking with mine
I must admit that I'm still having a hard time seeing some things from your point of view. We have something in common: we both want a solution. But the rest of our arguments are still quite different. I hope you won't mind me asking a few questions just so I can see your standing on this topic more clearly. I'm willing to understand how you truly aren't biased like you said.

1) What are your proposed solutions to fixing the Bad Juju spam?
2) Do you believe that any of these solutions will greatly affect Death wizards, whether it'd be positive or negative? If so, how and why? (If you said negative, what would you suggest to KI to make it up for Death?)
3) If it won't affect the Death school in any way, why so?
4) All these Bad Juju-related questions aside, do you believe Death needs more improvement for PvP in terms of their offensive spells and/or stats? Which schools should also be improved along with Death?

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
ok, first of all I read your posts and I'm getting insulted by you jumping to conclusions about me. I'm not thinking about just myself, I'm not confused, I'm not misunderstand or selfish and i'm not definitely not thinking bias . Do you know what that word really means? it's not a good word to say around. I'm not that way at all. I'm well aware the difference between PVP and PVE. Yes, Death is assumed weak by many in PVP but spamming Bad Juju the way it's happening to make up the school's strength does not make it right. Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell. Casting Bad Juju helps in PVP but will not make the Death useless if not. Spamming Bad Juju in a way some people are doing is abusing the use of the spell and it's a good way to have it banned from PVP if too many people complain about it. Their is no good solution to fix this issue because nerf or make changes to spells will affect PVE causing more complaints. That's why many spells are no-PVP However Jade gear needs to be fixed. You keep mentioning a solution is need, common sense and telling others they are think bias and not being open-minded making you seem like a smart person Yet I never once heard you come up with a solution yourself. Their is a say;" if you can talk, can you do the walk?" From yours and my posts, I'd like to say: We both have different point of view. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions very and I'm sticking with mine
I pity the players who unknowingly go into the arena to potentially face Juju spammers, since they are only there to have fun and hopefully win the match. But I also pity the Death wizards who understand how hopeless an offensive Death is in PvP and have the common sense to turn to Juju spamming as awful as this 'strategy' of winning is, instead of persisting on with a false hope to Warlord as a Death hitter. Not many people understand that Juju spammers are very much just like everybody else, they just want to win and be more than a Private, Sergeant or Veteran. But Death lacks in the offensive department, therefore the majority of us Deaths nowadays are pushed into Juju spamming. Please do note that it is often the high level wizards who turn to Juju spamming. We all know how broken max PvP is, so there's a lot more 'unfair/broken' play happening than there are in the low-mid lvl PvP. I'm certain that none of us Deaths decided Juju spamming was what we should do when we first started out because it's simple: 1) Who in their right mind would want a match that takes an hour or more? 2) Why want potential false reports (unless you've actually done something wrong)? 3) Why want hostility directed your way? Those are just a few reasons as examples. But once you've actually gone in as a Death hitter yourself in the arena for a few times, you'll start to understand why it seems more reasonable to actually do it. However, I still wouldn't recommend it, but I understand why people do and where they are coming from. But please, to anyone considering it, don't do it. You are only contributing to the many problems we have in PvP. I would rather people suggest solutions for Bad Juju and improvements for the Death school and the other low tier schools constantly on the Message Boards, so that KI will eventually consider them.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
It is a shame that I happen to be more drawn towards the low tier schools (Death, Storm, Myth and Life) because it probably would've been a lot easier for me if I weren't and I probably wouldn't even be worrying too much for the Death school. But I am glad that I do like Death, Storm, Myth and Life more and have them as my wizards because had I been a wizard of the Ice, Balance or Fire school/be more inclined towards those schools, I wouldn't really know what it is truly like to feel neglected in PvP and would have never experienced the many disadvantages of Death, Storm, Myth and Life. I know this isn't exactly related to this topic, but the more Bad Juju and the Death school comes up on the threads, the more I think of how the low tier schools have really suffered for all these years and how we as a whole (PvP) community haven't really been listened to. The arena should be fair, balanced and equal. Every school should be different but reliable and independent on their own so that we shouldn't have to continuously argue against each other and have little to no complaints. One way to know that PvP has finally been made to be fair for every school is when the PvP Message Boards are no longer active.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
ok, first of all I read your posts and I'm getting insulted by you jumping to conclusions about me. I'm not thinking about just myself, I'm not confused, I'm not misunderstand or selfish and i'm not definitely not thinking bias . Do you know what that word really means? it's not a good word to say around. I'm not that way at all. I'm well aware the difference between PVP and PVE. Yes, Death is assumed weak by many in PVP but spamming Bad Juju the way it's happening to make up the school's strength does not make it right. Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell. Casting Bad Juju helps in PVP but will not make the Death useless if not. Spamming Bad Juju in a way some people are doing is abusing the use of the spell and it's a good way to have it banned from PVP if too many people complain about it. Their is no good solution to fix this issue because nerf or make changes to spells will affect PVE causing more complaints. That's why many spells are no-PVP However Jade gear needs to be fixed. You keep mentioning a solution is need, common sense and telling others they are think bias and not being open-minded making you seem like a smart person Yet I never once heard you come up with a solution yourself. Their is a say;" if you can talk, can you do the walk?" From yours and my posts, I'd like to say: We both have different point of view. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions very and I'm sticking with mine
And btw, any changes to any PvP issues we have of any school may potentially fix it, but it would certainly affect that school to some degree, and most likely not in a good way. It has already happened to Death many times due to the many nerfs we've had, which is why the school is like it is now. While you may not have been directly biased or did not intend to, your mentioned solution was and how you previously stated your opinion made it sound like you are. It was only a solution for the people that wouldn't be affected by the removal/ban, meaning everyone except Death. How do you think the innocent non-Juju spammers who (/did) PvP would feel and react to that? While these hitters may not be Juju spamming, why should we deprive them of their right to use the spell every once in a while in their matches as a defensive technique? Because a hitter who uses Juju technically isn't using it as an abuse of power since they aren't spamming it 40+ times. They are just smart enough to use it at the right time or feel that it's the right move to do. One of those non-Juju spammers I am specifically talking about would be me. I used to play as a Death hitter, but now I no longer do Ranked because of its current state. But what if I do decide to come back? I'm being truthful when I say that I have never Juju spammed before and don't ever plan on doing so. But I would like it for the actual spell to stay, not a complete removal of it from PvP. Treasure card versions of Bad Juju sounds more reasonable to be removed, as well as the Cloak trick. If KI really wants to fix the Jade issue, they should also prevent Angel Jades from abusing the gear as well by banning it from 1v1. I don't really see how it should be banned in a team PvP because with others you actually have support from your team members. They can cleanse you of Jujus and provide support when defeating Jades whether they are Jades themselves buffing you up/Feinting or hitters hitting with you in Shrike/Infallible.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 25, 2018 wrote:
Spamming Bad Juju the why it's being used is being complained about by many PVP players. Someone getting a -90, -90, -90, -90, etc... over their head not giving them a chance to have a decent hit Is not fair play to your matches. Guardian Spirit doesn't do that. You can still have a powerful hit, swing around and hit again for a defeat before another Guardian spirit is cast. Yes PVP 1v1 can make the battles more difficult fighting against spammers. I didn't see many complaints at all about Guardian Spirit. so I don't see a problem with that spell and no I'm not saying that because I play life.
The Life counterpart to Juju spammers/Juju Deaths would be the Angel Jades/Guardian users and heal spammers. They used to be an issue as well a few years ago, but now that Life has actually gotten better and is not as 'bad' as it used to be, tons of Life wizards nowadays are more comfortable to play as hitters, hence why we don't see a lot of them nowadays. The PvP ranking of all the schools for me would be: 1) Balance 2) Ice and Fire 3) Life 4) Myth 5) Storm and 6) Death.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
ok, first of all I read your posts and I'm getting insulted by you jumping to conclusions about me. I'm not thinking about just myself, I'm not confused, I'm not misunderstand or selfish and i'm not definitely not thinking bias . Do you know what that word really means? it's not a good word to say around. I'm not that way at all. I'm well aware the difference between PVP and PVE. Yes, Death is assumed weak by many in PVP but spamming Bad Juju the way it's happening to make up the school's strength does not make it right. Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell. Casting Bad Juju helps in PVP but will not make the Death useless if not. Spamming Bad Juju in a way some people are doing is abusing the use of the spell and it's a good way to have it banned from PVP if too many people complain about it. Their is no good solution to fix this issue because nerf or make changes to spells will affect PVE causing more complaints. That's why many spells are no-PVP However Jade gear needs to be fixed. You keep mentioning a solution is need, common sense and telling others they are think bias and not being open-minded making you seem like a smart person Yet I never once heard you come up with a solution yourself. Their is a say;" if you can talk, can you do the walk?" From yours and my posts, I'd like to say: We both have different point of view. You have yours, I have mine. Opinions very and I'm sticking with mine
I agree that Juju spamming doesn't justify for our school's weakness. "Death's spells it's self and what they can do are strong but not necessarily in damage wise. Casting them at the right time makes Death a strong class. Spells being capable doing damage/ swap half heath without using extra pips are powerful spells, Doom of Glory debuff all heal spells is also a powerful spell." You said it yourself that they're not exactly powerful in terms of damage / offense. But the majority of our spells have a Jade-like trait to it or is at least somewhat related to heals/health, which is why it seems more reasonable for a Death to be defensive than it is to go offensive. Our drain spells are capable of dealing damage and healing us, Doom and Gloom (not Doom of Glory lol ) like you said decreases the amount heals do, we also have a healing spell ourselves which is Sacrifice, we have Infection and Mass Infection to again decrease the amount heals do. Our school is overwhelmingly more defensive and Jade-like than it should be with our debuff spells like Plague, Virulent Plague, and of course, Bad Juju. KI should focus on making the school more offensive and powerful in terms of their hitting spells and damage, but not ridiculously powerful enough to surpass the high damage schools. This is another reason why many Deaths are going for the Juju 'strategy'. Our school itself is very unbalanced between its defense and offense.

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
It's nice of you to share information about other schools and theirs spells but they're all irrelevant in this matter. This topic is about Bad Juju spam and Death School not other schools. Lets step back and think about the very first post said, "This person spammed me Bad Juju over 45 times I could do a single and they have reshuffles to go with it along with empower to gain the pips" The sentence didn't quit make sense. I assumed the n'tin could =couldn't was forgotten making it sound more sense. For another words, that person played unfair against Lucas Waterstone123 by abusing the use of Bad Juju which to me is the same as cheating your way through the battle regardless if theirs rules or not. Trigon101060 mentioned; " Bad Juju isn't exactly cheating. More like it's very unethical and unprofessional". So why did you not attack him the way you attacked me when words I said came from him. I'll say this another way; It's not the spell it's self, it's how you perform the use of bad Juju against other playing is known as unethical game play by many and can be call cheating. Now do you people get what i mean? This is what I believe in my line of thoughts and it's not going to change. Have fun.
My point is that he wasn't unfairly spammed. If you read the topic he also said he had spammed about 45 bolts? So its ok to spam bolt and not spam bad juju? Seem like you straight ignored that initial statement. Which that should of been unethical and unprofessional also.

Also, you said " death is one of the better schools" and "Have one of the highest survival rates". Yes in Pve but this is a thread about pvp, so what you said could be irrelevant to the matter being that its not even obtaining to the conversation of pvp. But I would suggest for you to do some death pvp to feel a little of the struggle.

Lastly, my statement about the other schools having immoral advantages/spells in pvp aren't any less relevant than you mentioning elucidate and giving false notion about it being banned from pvp, which it was never banned but in fact retired from the game.

Survivor
Feb 28, 2009
10
deathsummoner4 on May 25, 2018 wrote:
And we never said Storm has it easy. But there is a reason why many of their spells have a chance/luck aspect to it and why their health and resist is so low, otherwise if everything about them was perfect and/or balanced, they would be too overpowered and would easily destroy everyone in a blink of an eye, and anyone would no doubt be creating a Storm wizard then if that were to happen. How would a school with a high health, high resist, high damage, high pierce and high critical with powerful hitting spells sound and seem to others? That sounds frightening if you ask me, and you'd bet I'd be fleeing that match at the speed of light if I were to go against that school. I've truthfully never Juju spammed before because: 1) It is unfair for the other person, 2) I have a bad Wi-Fi connection, I would most likely get disconnected in the middle of a match, 3) I just don't have the patience for hour(s)-long matches, 4) Too lazy to create more Juju TCs, 5) I've stopped doing Ranked and 6) PvP is broken; something that we can all agree on. HOWEVER, I understand where Juju spammers are coming from. They are fully aware that what they are doing is unfair, but in recent years, our school has gotten so bad to the point that many of us Deaths have just been pushed to Juju spam if we wish to have any good rank at all, even if it means getting a bad reputation. Would you rather have the bad reputation of being known to Juju spam or being the loser/underdog? You might say the latter just to appear 'morally correct' or to back-up your arguments, but let's face it, nobody likes being the loser or the underdog. It's just human nature. The least I have to say for Juju spammers is to have sportsmanship and be considerate of their opponents who weren't expecting to face a Juju spammer in the beginning. Their opponents and anybody else who despite these "cheater" Death wizards should also look into the reasons why they've been doing this with an open mind.
In the end unlike all those opinions you stated, each school has different spells none is excluded, death doesn't only have bad juju they have all different types of juju, plague, virulent plague and the plague from winged sorrow but yet they abuse bad juju so you are wrong, they dont only have doom they have the additional bubble that takes (fourth pips basically a juju) age of reckoning as well as numerous over time spells just like a fire. they have beguile also a three pips spell which buys you a decent amount of time. on top of that all you are able to hit and heal. name how many classes can do that? thats the biggest advantage that most deaths do not take. you have empower that gives you pips if you would like to scarecrow. so DONT come on here saying that you guys have no other option. thats just a excuse to use one spell with no limit because of its pip usage. and i did not say it should be removed it simply should cost more pips. if not why not give efreet less pips too huh? and if thats not even you can always resort to dampening peoples heals so dont come with that. however facing a juju spammer has no way of coping or reasonably strategizing especially when no one knows when they are going to face one. so how is anyone suppose to beat that?? ps: you losing from a storm because in fourth rounds he sulton you has nothing to do with a disadvantage, it was simply him getting a shadow before you.

Survivor
Feb 28, 2009
10
Patrick Ravenbane on May 26, 2018 wrote:
It's nice of you to share information about other schools and theirs spells but they're all irrelevant in this matter. This topic is about Bad Juju spam and Death School not other schools. Lets step back and think about the very first post said, "This person spammed me Bad Juju over 45 times I could do a single and they have reshuffles to go with it along with empower to gain the pips" The sentence didn't quit make sense. I assumed the n'tin could =couldn't was forgotten making it sound more sense. For another words, that person played unfair against Lucas Waterstone123 by abusing the use of Bad Juju which to me is the same as cheating your way through the battle regardless if theirs rules or not. Trigon101060 mentioned; " Bad Juju isn't exactly cheating. More like it's very unethical and unprofessional". So why did you not attack him the way you attacked me when words I said came from him. I'll say this another way; It's not the spell it's self, it's how you perform the use of bad Juju against other playing is known as unethical game play by many and can be call cheating. Now do you people get what i mean? This is what I believe in my line of thoughts and it's not going to change. Have fun.
yes n't was missing

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Tylerwildpants on May 26, 2018 wrote:
The game can and should introduce spells called Cleanse-Quake and Transfer JuJu.

Cleanse-Quake
This is an amped up version of Cleanse, that removes all negative enhancers cast on you, or your entire team.

Transfer Juju
All Juju on you and your teammates get transferred onto opposing team.
Again this is another example on how to directly nerf death in general without being empathic to their to needs. This exactly why I said player's praise death hitters but at the same time opping to have them struggle more by asking for more cards that will render their spells and tactics useless.

Which I can say I defeated a lot of juju spammers on my life, storm, balance, ice and death( First or second). The most simple solutions of counter are wands(May cast), dooms,bubbles, infections, low pip hits, reshuffles and forcing them to use up their bad juju tc in side deck which would limit them to only main. Which all of these factors are available to every school.

How about talking how to stop jade bad juju, while also giving offensive death players a better chance to compete in pvp without essentially need it..

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
deathsummoner4 on May 26, 2018 wrote:
Oh, I did somewhat had a feeling you were Sean himself. I think I've seen you mention it in another post, but I didn't want to give out your character's name for privacy. That match was definitely unjust. It seemed like the game knew when to give her a shadow pip too.
It's cool I don't mind really being used as an example. Also, that match was one of my boiling points.

Btw your description of the match was a bit off. I was able to get only 2 blades on with the game giving no shadows stun block and thermic. In this time she fuel and a beetle on me with a shrike and 1 tower on her. She then used burning rampage on my thermic which I used another one. Next, she then used efreet, which did 3.8k through a thermic, 71 warded resist and fortify that cast from my pet, with the rampage tick doing another 2.7k. Ultimately killing me. (I was also second)

That's a brainless damage spike with the shadow she got the turn she efreet was a bit overkill and the sad part is how easily she could efreet to deal so mass with a 90% weakness. It's also funny how efreet outclasses every spell death has and how impossible it is to guard against rampage, even I did shift the rampage I was still going to basically get one shot by the efreet the next turn being wide open. Another sad part is she got a shadow into a shadow with me still having no shadows. She could of just FFA but she wanted to efreet to make sure I couldn't hit back but she ended up killing anyways. Luckily she didn't have to use all the tools she had to kill me.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
LucasWaterstone123 on May 27, 2018 wrote:
In the end unlike all those opinions you stated, each school has different spells none is excluded, death doesn't only have bad juju they have all different types of juju, plague, virulent plague and the plague from winged sorrow but yet they abuse bad juju so you are wrong, they dont only have doom they have the additional bubble that takes (fourth pips basically a juju) age of reckoning as well as numerous over time spells just like a fire. they have beguile also a three pips spell which buys you a decent amount of time. on top of that all you are able to hit and heal. name how many classes can do that? thats the biggest advantage that most deaths do not take. you have empower that gives you pips if you would like to scarecrow. so DONT come on here saying that you guys have no other option. thats just a excuse to use one spell with no limit because of its pip usage. and i did not say it should be removed it simply should cost more pips. if not why not give efreet less pips too huh? and if thats not even you can always resort to dampening peoples heals so dont come with that. however facing a juju spammer has no way of coping or reasonably strategizing especially when no one knows when they are going to face one. so how is anyone suppose to beat that?? ps: you losing from a storm because in fourth rounds he sulton you has nothing to do with a disadvantage, it was simply him getting a shadow before you.
Of course we have different types of debuff spells, we are a support school after all. Just like how Balance is and has two sets of tri-shields and tri-blades, as well as weaknesses, from the actual spell itself and Loremaster.

And don't get mad at me when I'm just simply stating what I think. All these spells you've mentioned are UTILITY spells, meaning they are not for hitting, their purpose is for support. Death hitters don't even use half of those spells you've mentioned. Doom and Gloom is not "basically a Juju", I think you've forgotten that Juju is for weakening damage. Doom is to weaken heals, Juju Jades never use that otherwise they'd be asking for a loss. And our drain spells and weakening hits + heals are a specialty of ours, just like Storm having high damage, pierce and critical are specialties of theirs that makes them unique. Death without drains would not be death, Storm without high dmg, crit, pierce would not be Storm, Life without heals would not be Life. See where I'm getting at?

Also, if you're mad on how we simply have drains (since the very beginning), why direct anger towards the players who've had no control over it? It was KI who decided which features each school should have. We didn't made the choice to have Bad Juju you know. Plus, our beguile has been nerfed quite recently if you haven't already noticed so the amount of turns you get beguiled have been reduced. Pretty sure it's now only one. And Empowering just because you want to Crow is not a wise move. It's clear you've never had a Death wizard.

You stating, "so DONT come on here saying that you guys have no other option." Now you're just demanding for others to leave when it's a public Message Board for the PvP community to voice their opinion on. If you have an issue with people stating things and replying to your topic, why even post a thread in the first place? It makes no sense.

Delver
Dec 08, 2016
226
wakaflame201 on May 27, 2018 wrote:
It's cool I don't mind really being used as an example. Also, that match was one of my boiling points.

Btw your description of the match was a bit off. I was able to get only 2 blades on with the game giving no shadows stun block and thermic. In this time she fuel and a beetle on me with a shrike and 1 tower on her. She then used burning rampage on my thermic which I used another one. Next, she then used efreet, which did 3.8k through a thermic, 71 warded resist and fortify that cast from my pet, with the rampage tick doing another 2.7k. Ultimately killing me. (I was also second)

That's a brainless damage spike with the shadow she got the turn she efreet was a bit overkill and the sad part is how easily she could efreet to deal so mass with a 90% weakness. It's also funny how efreet outclasses every spell death has and how impossible it is to guard against rampage, even I did shift the rampage I was still going to basically get one shot by the efreet the next turn being wide open. Another sad part is she got a shadow into a shadow with me still having no shadows. She could of just FFA but she wanted to efreet to make sure I couldn't hit back but she ended up killing anyways. Luckily she didn't have to use all the tools she had to kill me.
Yeah, I don't really remember every single detail from that match. Sorry about that. I'm simply just tired of how others use the excuse of "It's only because they got a shadow pip that you lost." to belittle our scenario and brush aside our perspective of why we lost. Like no, there's a reason why a ranking of 'high tier' and 'low tier' schools for PvP exist. Death is widely considered to be at the very bottom and the worst of the low tiers, especially at max. I've read many polls in the past of which school was considered to be the worst at the high levels and nearly all of them had Death with the most votes. Also for any skeptics, just watch the most well-known PvP YouTubers and find the matches that have Death in them. That way it's easier to actually put yourself in our shoes and know what it's like to be a max Death than hearing our opinions because people don't usually get what we're saying. People never really bother to listen to a Death's opinion on these sort of threads simply because they despise Juju spammers so much that it lures out all their prejudiced notions on the Death school and they begin generalizing every Death into being one of them. Like I said before, we aren't defending the Juju strategy itself, I'm just here defending my fellow Death wizards. Non-Death wizards can't and shouldn't tell us what to do or what they know of the school simply because they've never had one before or they don't play it enough to actually understand from our perspective.

And Lucas, you only disliked Juju spammers in your first post, but why does it seem as though you're suddenly hating on everything that has got to do with the Death school now? Players need to be mindful when complaining about a school's spell and try to steer away from aggressively attacking every player of that school for no reason. You can be mad at me for simply just stating my opinions since I decided to drop by here myself, but please don't start pointing fingers at every Death wizard.

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
LucasWaterstone123 on May 27, 2018 wrote:
In the end unlike all those opinions you stated, each school has different spells none is excluded, death doesn't only have bad juju they have all different types of juju, plague, virulent plague and the plague from winged sorrow but yet they abuse bad juju so you are wrong, they dont only have doom they have the additional bubble that takes (fourth pips basically a juju) age of reckoning as well as numerous over time spells just like a fire. they have beguile also a three pips spell which buys you a decent amount of time. on top of that all you are able to hit and heal. name how many classes can do that? thats the biggest advantage that most deaths do not take. you have empower that gives you pips if you would like to scarecrow. so DONT come on here saying that you guys have no other option. thats just a excuse to use one spell with no limit because of its pip usage. and i did not say it should be removed it simply should cost more pips. if not why not give efreet less pips too huh? and if thats not even you can always resort to dampening peoples heals so dont come with that. however facing a juju spammer has no way of coping or reasonably strategizing especially when no one knows when they are going to face one. so how is anyone suppose to beat that?? ps: you losing from a storm because in fourth rounds he sulton you has nothing to do with a disadvantage, it was simply him getting a shadow before you.
  1. How are you considering v plague, plague and sorrow are also bad juju? Which next you compare the pierce bubble which is for pips, while most schools are sporting 2 pip damage bubbles with more damage in their spells. Also, Death doesn't have near as many dots as fire. Let's compare Ashen bones being stronger than an epic enchanted skeletal, along with rampage being fewer pips and spiking way more damage or even being stronger than stormzilla? Not to mention fire can utilize death's utility better than them and on top have their own.
  2. Beguile was clearly nerfed last update. Also how the spell working in 1v1 before it was already risky because the caster couldn't hit unless they were on spot while on the other hand, the beguiled could always hit with a aoe. Not to mention spot + beguile = user being second. So in other words the opponent still could shield or just attack you first. Not its nerfed to one turn going second and your opponent can still hit you. So how is that a decent amount of time?
  3. How good are drains when they're lacking in both damage and heal back percentage. Which is sad because none of the drains get full enchant or heal back. People always argue the enchant is half to damage and heal but if that's the case why is the heal still 50% back?
  4. I hope you're still fully aware the other schools are still fully capable of utilizing empower, dark pact and bad juju better than offensive deaths. And before you say you can't with bad juju there's a 2 pip bad juju treasure you can plant.
  5. Why should bad juju cost more? Offensive deaths can barely utilize it and can be removed with a wand or hit?
  6. I wasn't aware that death was the only players that can dampen heals? By my knowledge, both infection and doom are trainable to players outside of death. So how is it exclusive again?
  7. You can't copy the spam because its an exclusively trained spell but the spell is still available to you in tc and can still use it more effectively than offensive deaths.