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Firebeetle is unfair

AuthorMessage
Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Ok how fire gets the luxury of having 3 35% traps for 2 pip, which schools like death and life get the spell with 1 30% for 2 pips? Firebeetle should be either removed or nerfed to 3 or 4 pips. Fire beetle also stacks with other fire beetles. With current damage spikes and perks fire offer this spell way too overwhelming in pvp which in most cases leaves no room to counter.

Historian
Jun 17, 2014
671
Only ice fire and storm has beetles... Balance life and death has Scarebs....
Fire gets a fuel... Storm gets a balance blade... Ice gets......?
Life and death gets a trap... Balance gets....?

And where's myth? They don't get neither a beetle or scareb

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
camahawk on Nov 16, 2017 wrote:
Only ice fire and storm has beetles... Balance life and death has Scarebs....
Fire gets a fuel... Storm gets a balance blade... Ice gets......?
Life and death gets a trap... Balance gets....?

And where's myth? They don't get neither a beetle or scareb
Ice actually gets bats (trap) and Icebird(blade). Myth gets yellow troll and rats

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
wakaflame201 on Nov 16, 2017 wrote:
Ok how fire gets the luxury of having 3 35% traps for 2 pip, which schools like death and life get the spell with 1 30% for 2 pips? Firebeetle should be either removed or nerfed to 3 or 4 pips. Fire beetle also stacks with other fire beetles. With current damage spikes and perks fire offer this spell way too overwhelming in pvp which in most cases leaves no room to counter.
wait, what? no room to counter? are you kidding me?

fuel
death fuel
life fuel

1) death/life fuel are also 2 pips for 3x30% traps, and also stack with other appropriate school traps;
2) life and death's school traps are 0 pips, not 2;
3) -80% shields are available for training points in wizard city;
4) if you're letting your opponent stack traps on you, the spell isn't the problem.

life and death can both out-heal fire. death has bad juju and doom, life has spirit armour, entangle, and healing boosts galore, and both have access to weakness/shields.

unfortunately, pvp would much rather complain and cry nerf than actually build a strategy around a particular spell. either learn to take the literal heat or get out of the figurative kitchen.

-von

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Dr Von on Nov 17, 2017 wrote:
wait, what? no room to counter? are you kidding me?

fuel
death fuel
life fuel

1) death/life fuel are also 2 pips for 3x30% traps, and also stack with other appropriate school traps;
2) life and death's school traps are 0 pips, not 2;
3) -80% shields are available for training points in wizard city;
4) if you're letting your opponent stack traps on you, the spell isn't the problem.

life and death can both out-heal fire. death has bad juju and doom, life has spirit armour, entangle, and healing boosts galore, and both have access to weakness/shields.

unfortunately, pvp would much rather complain and cry nerf than actually build a strategy around a particular spell. either learn to take the literal heat or get out of the figurative kitchen.

-von
1) Death/Life fuels are in gear that have bad stats so why would they risk bad stats for 2 cards? And if you wanna mention that fire still got fuel from the road hog pet that stacks with their normal and potent enchanted fuels. Just how are you comparing a spell that can hit and put on 3 35% to a item spell with bad stats?

2)Again what do this have to do with fire having a hit with 3 35% traps? Also Fire has traps for 0 pips too which is kinda not relevant to the subject.

3)Again what do shields have to do with fire beetle? All schools have 80 shields which again has nothing to do with the subject. But since we wanna get off subject Fire tc ashen bones is stronger than a fully enchanted Skeletal dragon, But i doubt many would have a problem with that.

Death has bad juju and Doom? Wow a spell death cant use with blades and deals damage to them which they are highly blade dependent because of lack of base damage.Doom can be trained by anyone but nice try plus death gets no buff stat from it. Also anyone can train entangle like any dispel.

This doesnt make sense "unfortunately, pvp would much rather complain and cry nerf than actually build a strategy around a particular spell. either learn to take the literal heat or get out of the figurative kitchen."

Also really counter a spell that is 2 pips that stacks 3 traps when they have almost uncounterable spells like Efreet and rampage. Lets give you a scenario.

Fire is first with stun blocks and shields on. you have to shield but every time you shield he/she fire beetle everytime you shield and if you stop shielding they will either hit you with a efreet or shadow hit. Or if you keep shielding they can just rampage into anything. Tell us what room is there for counter?

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
wakaflame201 on Nov 17, 2017 wrote:
1) Death/Life fuels are in gear that have bad stats so why would they risk bad stats for 2 cards? And if you wanna mention that fire still got fuel from the road hog pet that stacks with their normal and potent enchanted fuels. Just how are you comparing a spell that can hit and put on 3 35% to a item spell with bad stats?

2)Again what do this have to do with fire having a hit with 3 35% traps? Also Fire has traps for 0 pips too which is kinda not relevant to the subject.

3)Again what do shields have to do with fire beetle? All schools have 80 shields which again has nothing to do with the subject. But since we wanna get off subject Fire tc ashen bones is stronger than a fully enchanted Skeletal dragon, But i doubt many would have a problem with that.

Death has bad juju and Doom? Wow a spell death cant use with blades and deals damage to them which they are highly blade dependent because of lack of base damage.Doom can be trained by anyone but nice try plus death gets no buff stat from it. Also anyone can train entangle like any dispel.

This doesnt make sense "unfortunately, pvp would much rather complain and cry nerf than actually build a strategy around a particular spell. either learn to take the literal heat or get out of the figurative kitchen."

Also really counter a spell that is 2 pips that stacks 3 traps when they have almost uncounterable spells like Efreet and rampage. Lets give you a scenario.

Fire is first with stun blocks and shields on. you have to shield but every time you shield he/she fire beetle everytime you shield and if you stop shielding they will either hit you with a efreet or shadow hit. Or if you keep shielding they can just rampage into anything. Tell us what room is there for counter?
what room is there for counter? surely, you don't need me to tell you that.

"Just how are you comparing a spell that can hit and put on 3 35% to a item spell with bad stats?"

it's quite easy, really:

1) fire beetle is a pet/item/tc spell only;
2) pets and items both give a fixed number of cards;
3) those card types can't be enchanted (ie: with potent trap or indemnify);
4) cards from the same source do not stack.

life and death fuel are also pet/item/tc-exclusive; in your initial post, you claimed that life and death's school traps only cost 2 pips, so i clarified that they do not.

"what do shields have to do with fire beetle?"

... uh, you claimed there were no counters, so i gave you one.

no death wizard with any smarts is going to use juju if they have blades up. if fire plans on hitting death with an efreet or ffa, they'd better hope it kills because death will just use a self-hurting spell to either heal (sacrifice), or buff (dark pact) and follow it with a drain spell. if doom is up, fire can't heal and death can just restore health via drain.

"This (von's brilliantly worded metaphor) doesnt make sense."

actually, it does.

ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me
and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it.

this is a pve game, and pvp is optional. so stop whining and work aroundwhatever spell is annoying you or just don't pvp. it really is that simple.
-v.

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
Dr Von on Nov 18, 2017 wrote:
what room is there for counter? surely, you don't need me to tell you that.

"Just how are you comparing a spell that can hit and put on 3 35% to a item spell with bad stats?"

it's quite easy, really:

1) fire beetle is a pet/item/tc spell only;
2) pets and items both give a fixed number of cards;
3) those card types can't be enchanted (ie: with potent trap or indemnify);
4) cards from the same source do not stack.

life and death fuel are also pet/item/tc-exclusive; in your initial post, you claimed that life and death's school traps only cost 2 pips, so i clarified that they do not.

"what do shields have to do with fire beetle?"

... uh, you claimed there were no counters, so i gave you one.

no death wizard with any smarts is going to use juju if they have blades up. if fire plans on hitting death with an efreet or ffa, they'd better hope it kills because death will just use a self-hurting spell to either heal (sacrifice), or buff (dark pact) and follow it with a drain spell. if doom is up, fire can't heal and death can just restore health via drain.

"This (von's brilliantly worded metaphor) doesnt make sense."

actually, it does.

ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me
and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it.

this is a pve game, and pvp is optional. so stop whining and work aroundwhatever spell is annoying you or just don't pvp. it really is that simple.
-v.
"ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it.

this is a pve game, and pvp is optional. so stop whining and work aroundwhatever spell is annoying you or just don't pvp. it really is that simple.
-v."

I find it interesting that in one thread (
Abominable Weaver-Nerf) you call the op "super condescending and elitist". Then turn around and post this.

So now people can't post their opinions here however valid or not because you don't like it. You can disagree without trying to shut someone down. Or can you?

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
wakaflame201 on Nov 17, 2017 wrote:
1) Death/Life fuels are in gear that have bad stats so why would they risk bad stats for 2 cards? And if you wanna mention that fire still got fuel from the road hog pet that stacks with their normal and potent enchanted fuels. Just how are you comparing a spell that can hit and put on 3 35% to a item spell with bad stats?

2)Again what do this have to do with fire having a hit with 3 35% traps? Also Fire has traps for 0 pips too which is kinda not relevant to the subject.

3)Again what do shields have to do with fire beetle? All schools have 80 shields which again has nothing to do with the subject. But since we wanna get off subject Fire tc ashen bones is stronger than a fully enchanted Skeletal dragon, But i doubt many would have a problem with that.

Death has bad juju and Doom? Wow a spell death cant use with blades and deals damage to them which they are highly blade dependent because of lack of base damage.Doom can be trained by anyone but nice try plus death gets no buff stat from it. Also anyone can train entangle like any dispel.

This doesnt make sense "unfortunately, pvp would much rather complain and cry nerf than actually build a strategy around a particular spell. either learn to take the literal heat or get out of the figurative kitchen."

Also really counter a spell that is 2 pips that stacks 3 traps when they have almost uncounterable spells like Efreet and rampage. Lets give you a scenario.

Fire is first with stun blocks and shields on. you have to shield but every time you shield he/she fire beetle everytime you shield and if you stop shielding they will either hit you with a efreet or shadow hit. Or if you keep shielding they can just rampage into anything. Tell us what room is there for counter?
Life fuel does come on a pet and there are TC versions. However the TC is a lot rarer than fire beetle which you can easily find in the bazaar. Life and Death fuel TC can only be obtained from Road Warrior's Hoard Pack, as far as I know.
Please correct if wrong.

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
wakaflame201 on Nov 16, 2017 wrote:
Ok how fire gets the luxury of having 3 35% traps for 2 pip, which schools like death and life get the spell with 1 30% for 2 pips? Firebeetle should be either removed or nerfed to 3 or 4 pips. Fire beetle also stacks with other fire beetles. With current damage spikes and perks fire offer this spell way too overwhelming in pvp which in most cases leaves no room to counter.
My problem with fire beetle is that even though life scarab has higher accuracy (90% vs. 75%) death (85% vs. 75%),
and it's dpp (damage per pip) is higher (65 vs. 50) death (70 vs. 50) not only is fire beetles trap 5 -10% higher damage, there are three of them.

Perhaps 65% or even 60% accuracy would be more even. Or all beetles get three traps too. Death could definitely use it.

Defender
Jan 24, 2009
121
Dr Von on Nov 18, 2017 wrote:
what room is there for counter? surely, you don't need me to tell you that.

"Just how are you comparing a spell that can hit and put on 3 35% to a item spell with bad stats?"

it's quite easy, really:

1) fire beetle is a pet/item/tc spell only;
2) pets and items both give a fixed number of cards;
3) those card types can't be enchanted (ie: with potent trap or indemnify);
4) cards from the same source do not stack.

life and death fuel are also pet/item/tc-exclusive; in your initial post, you claimed that life and death's school traps only cost 2 pips, so i clarified that they do not.

"what do shields have to do with fire beetle?"

... uh, you claimed there were no counters, so i gave you one.

no death wizard with any smarts is going to use juju if they have blades up. if fire plans on hitting death with an efreet or ffa, they'd better hope it kills because death will just use a self-hurting spell to either heal (sacrifice), or buff (dark pact) and follow it with a drain spell. if doom is up, fire can't heal and death can just restore health via drain.

"This (von's brilliantly worded metaphor) doesnt make sense."

actually, it does.

ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me
and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it.

this is a pve game, and pvp is optional. so stop whining and work aroundwhatever spell is annoying you or just don't pvp. it really is that simple.
-v.
1) Yes fire beetle is a item/pet/tc but still doesnt dismiss the fact how op it is. It hits which takes your shields and adds tc traps which is 35% for 2 pips. Also has a 2 other tc versions of it that can stack with it. Also you can add any number of firebeetle in side deck as long as it doesn't exceed the limit of the deck which we can't say the same for death/life fuel. And again life and death fuel is not a hit spell that leaves 3 traps so you can't compare it to fire beetle.

2) Already covered in 1

3) Never said item cards could be enchanted i said stacked. I did mention fire can enchant fuel because its a fire trained spell ofc.

4)Never said cards from the same source stack. I mentioned different variations of the spell. Like when i said Fire beetle has other versions of the tc that stacks with each other. Meaning its not the same type of fire beetle.

"life and death fuel are also pet/item/tc-exclusive; in your initial post, you claimed that life and death's school traps only cost 2 pips, so i clarified that they do not."

No i was actually talking about 2 pip spells that hit and trap. Life scarab 2 pips 1 30%, Death scarab 2 pips 1 30%, Fire 2 pips 3 35%? Do you know see the problem?

Shields are not a direct counter to fire beetle when it takes shields and leaves 3 traps in its place. Not to mention that can use this spell and go right into mass hits like efreet/rampage or shadow hits.

Its not about what any smart death would do but about what they can't do. Death is a highly blade dependent school that can't use their own utility? Have the worst base damage in game, not to mention other schools can use their utility better than them. Death school is literally a walking contradiction that needs to be corrected.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Mr Talon on Nov 18, 2017 wrote:
"ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it.

this is a pve game, and pvp is optional. so stop whining and work aroundwhatever spell is annoying you or just don't pvp. it really is that simple.
-v."

I find it interesting that in one thread (
Abominable Weaver-Nerf) you call the op "super condescending and elitist". Then turn around and post this.

So now people can't post their opinions here however valid or not because you don't like it. You can disagree without trying to shut someone down. Or can you?
if pointing out that crying nerf immediately is not always the answer and providing viable options=shutting someone down, then stop the world; i want off.



if every spell out there really was so broken that it could not be countered, it would never have been implemented. changes that benefit pvp are absolutely useless, even detrimental, to the rest of us in pve, when this is a pve game and pvp is optional.

unfortunately, this game has been hemorrhaging casual players for a while and our voices are no longer loud enough to drown out the organized spamming that comes from the arena. then, those of us left are told to be quiet and "stop complaining" by the same people who cry nerf for every spell that's ever defeated them in pvp. if they had their way, pve players would have nothing but wand hits left.

maybe if pvp didn't always demand that everything be nerfed immediately, i might be a bit more understanding. but, when that group always insists on a nerf as the first course of action, with the only reason being that "it's overpowered", what i hear is, "there's probably is a counter, but this is easier and i'm the best, therefore anything that defeats me is broken and needs to go asap".

gs nerf? pvp.
wild bolt? also pvp.
reshuffle? again, pvp.
pet heals nerfed? you betcha, pvp.
crit/block overhaul? i'm almost positive that pvp was responsible for that too, since the timing is just too perfect to be a coincidence.

honestly, i think we would be so much better off if the game were split up: pvp already has their own gear, so why not give them a whole new set of spells and leave the pve equivalents alone. that way, when pvp cries nerf, it will only affect them and we don't have to worry about our builds/stats/spells becoming obsolete.

-von

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
Dr Von on Nov 19, 2017 wrote:
if pointing out that crying nerf immediately is not always the answer and providing viable options=shutting someone down, then stop the world; i want off.



if every spell out there really was so broken that it could not be countered, it would never have been implemented. changes that benefit pvp are absolutely useless, even detrimental, to the rest of us in pve, when this is a pve game and pvp is optional.

unfortunately, this game has been hemorrhaging casual players for a while and our voices are no longer loud enough to drown out the organized spamming that comes from the arena. then, those of us left are told to be quiet and "stop complaining" by the same people who cry nerf for every spell that's ever defeated them in pvp. if they had their way, pve players would have nothing but wand hits left.

maybe if pvp didn't always demand that everything be nerfed immediately, i might be a bit more understanding. but, when that group always insists on a nerf as the first course of action, with the only reason being that "it's overpowered", what i hear is, "there's probably is a counter, but this is easier and i'm the best, therefore anything that defeats me is broken and needs to go asap".

gs nerf? pvp.
wild bolt? also pvp.
reshuffle? again, pvp.
pet heals nerfed? you betcha, pvp.
crit/block overhaul? i'm almost positive that pvp was responsible for that too, since the timing is just too perfect to be a coincidence.

honestly, i think we would be so much better off if the game were split up: pvp already has their own gear, so why not give them a whole new set of spells and leave the pve equivalents alone. that way, when pvp cries nerf, it will only affect them and we don't have to worry about our builds/stats/spells becoming obsolete.

-von
So you want to pretend that you weren't doing exactly what you called out someone for doing? Ok.

We aren't talking about every spell ever made, this thread is about fire beetle.

The pve only community isn't the only part that is hemorrhaging players. The same can be said for the pvp community.

Why do you feel the need to drown out any players opinion?

Everyone should have a voice here, and their ideas a chance to see if it can stand the scrutiny of the community through counter arguments. Even when that happens it's still up to the developers to decide to implement it.

"Organized spamming" interesting term. You say this like the pve only community doesn't do this very same tactic, which you have been a part of.

The only person on this thread that has told anyone to stop complaining/stop crying is you.

Only wand hits left? Please stop the hyperbole.

Just because a player post's 'nerf this now' doesn't mean KI has, or is going to capitulate to each and every demand, even though you're trying to make it seem that way.

In the 9 years of this games existence you can only name 3 cards that have been changed and two game effects(however significant). As a person who has played many ccg's (customizable card games) since magic: the gathering, that is a remarkably low number given that length of time.

We can both agree there have been hundreds of threads asking for a nerf. But given the amount of actual nerfing, I think your objections to others even having the ability to say 'nerf this' is ridiculous.

If you disagree with the posters ideas, you and everyone else should have the ability to say you know I'm not sure that is necessary and here is why.

But that is not all you did here and you know it, even if you refuse to admit it.

Side note:critical/block changes. This new direction of critical/block is not due to pvp. A growing number of high level players were reaching the maximum levels of both. Decay, while I'm not a fan was implemented to preserve the system .

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Mr Talon on Nov 19, 2017 wrote:
So you want to pretend that you weren't doing exactly what you called out someone for doing? Ok.

We aren't talking about every spell ever made, this thread is about fire beetle.

The pve only community isn't the only part that is hemorrhaging players. The same can be said for the pvp community.

Why do you feel the need to drown out any players opinion?

Everyone should have a voice here, and their ideas a chance to see if it can stand the scrutiny of the community through counter arguments. Even when that happens it's still up to the developers to decide to implement it.

"Organized spamming" interesting term. You say this like the pve only community doesn't do this very same tactic, which you have been a part of.

The only person on this thread that has told anyone to stop complaining/stop crying is you.

Only wand hits left? Please stop the hyperbole.

Just because a player post's 'nerf this now' doesn't mean KI has, or is going to capitulate to each and every demand, even though you're trying to make it seem that way.

In the 9 years of this games existence you can only name 3 cards that have been changed and two game effects(however significant). As a person who has played many ccg's (customizable card games) since magic: the gathering, that is a remarkably low number given that length of time.

We can both agree there have been hundreds of threads asking for a nerf. But given the amount of actual nerfing, I think your objections to others even having the ability to say 'nerf this' is ridiculous.

If you disagree with the posters ideas, you and everyone else should have the ability to say you know I'm not sure that is necessary and here is why.

But that is not all you did here and you know it, even if you refuse to admit it.

Side note:critical/block changes. This new direction of critical/block is not due to pvp. A growing number of high level players were reaching the maximum levels of both. Decay, while I'm not a fan was implemented to preserve the system .
i don't object to people saying "nerf this" if 1) something is truly unbalanced or 2) they offer a valid reason as to why it's "overpowered", neither of which the original post covers.

we're talking about fire beetle, a 2-pip spell that (for reasons already covered) is easily countered and definitely not game-breaking.

i used to pvp with fire; i have a pet that gives the fire beetle spell; i have used it against people in the arena and they have countered it successfully, hence it can be done.

and now i ask you this: why is it okay for one side to be vocal in expressing their displeasure, but not the other?

if a pve player had started a thread like this and suggested that x boss or cheat needs toned down, the pvp players would be all over it like flies on honey, telling us that we're lazy or unskilled, and to "stop complaining, it's fine the way it is" because *they* aren't struggling. so please explain to me why that's okay but, when i do the same, it's "shutting someone down".

you can try curing a disease forever, but you'll never kill it unless you treat the cause, rather than the symptom: is pvp broken? you betcha. but will nerfing one little spell make a difference if the system itself is ill? no, it will not.

if that last part re: crit/block is true, that it was only implemented once pvp started up about dm gear being "overpowered" is an incredible coincidence.

-von

Historian
Jun 17, 2014
671
Mr Talon on Nov 19, 2017 wrote:
So you want to pretend that you weren't doing exactly what you called out someone for doing? Ok.

We aren't talking about every spell ever made, this thread is about fire beetle.

The pve only community isn't the only part that is hemorrhaging players. The same can be said for the pvp community.

Why do you feel the need to drown out any players opinion?

Everyone should have a voice here, and their ideas a chance to see if it can stand the scrutiny of the community through counter arguments. Even when that happens it's still up to the developers to decide to implement it.

"Organized spamming" interesting term. You say this like the pve only community doesn't do this very same tactic, which you have been a part of.

The only person on this thread that has told anyone to stop complaining/stop crying is you.

Only wand hits left? Please stop the hyperbole.

Just because a player post's 'nerf this now' doesn't mean KI has, or is going to capitulate to each and every demand, even though you're trying to make it seem that way.

In the 9 years of this games existence you can only name 3 cards that have been changed and two game effects(however significant). As a person who has played many ccg's (customizable card games) since magic: the gathering, that is a remarkably low number given that length of time.

We can both agree there have been hundreds of threads asking for a nerf. But given the amount of actual nerfing, I think your objections to others even having the ability to say 'nerf this' is ridiculous.

If you disagree with the posters ideas, you and everyone else should have the ability to say you know I'm not sure that is necessary and here is why.

But that is not all you did here and you know it, even if you refuse to admit it.

Side note:critical/block changes. This new direction of critical/block is not due to pvp. A growing number of high level players were reaching the maximum levels of both. Decay, while I'm not a fan was implemented to preserve the system .
just saying, critical decay was necessary, in celestia max critical was what 300, and it'll take a full suit of gear to hit it, now in empyrea, you hit 300, with just a hat and boots..... meaning if critical decay wasnt a thing, lvl 125, you'll sit at 225% (ish) critical, which is insane

and adding to the post, you're comparing a beetle to a scareb... it's like apples and oranges, both are fruit, and should be identical, but they're not, beetles are all elemental, scarebs, are spiritual, and until the Road warrior pack, no one but fire had fuel, so it's like until shard Warrior, and Mirage pet (rain core at least) no one but storm has a super charge

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
Dr Von on Nov 20, 2017 wrote:
i don't object to people saying "nerf this" if 1) something is truly unbalanced or 2) they offer a valid reason as to why it's "overpowered", neither of which the original post covers.

we're talking about fire beetle, a 2-pip spell that (for reasons already covered) is easily countered and definitely not game-breaking.

i used to pvp with fire; i have a pet that gives the fire beetle spell; i have used it against people in the arena and they have countered it successfully, hence it can be done.

and now i ask you this: why is it okay for one side to be vocal in expressing their displeasure, but not the other?

if a pve player had started a thread like this and suggested that x boss or cheat needs toned down, the pvp players would be all over it like flies on honey, telling us that we're lazy or unskilled, and to "stop complaining, it's fine the way it is" because *they* aren't struggling. so please explain to me why that's okay but, when i do the same, it's "shutting someone down".

you can try curing a disease forever, but you'll never kill it unless you treat the cause, rather than the symptom: is pvp broken? you betcha. but will nerfing one little spell make a difference if the system itself is ill? no, it will not.

if that last part re: crit/block is true, that it was only implemented once pvp started up about dm gear being "overpowered" is an incredible coincidence.

-von
"i don't object to people saying "nerf this""

"ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it."

"a 2-pip spell that (for reasons already covered) is easily countered"

I agree, you can easily counter fire beetle spell in so many ways that I don't have room to list them all. Now, how do you counter that follow up burning rampage from second? And oh my, now it has all these lovely stacked traps to use courtesy of.... fire beetles.

"and now i ask you this: why is it okay for one side to be vocal in expressing their displeasure, but not the other?"

You must have skimmed my post, here are some excerpts;

"Everyone should have a voice here, and their ideas a chance to see if it can stand the scrutiny of the community through counter arguments. Even when that happens it's still up to the developers to decide to implement it."

and...

"If you disagree with the posters ideas, you and everyone else should have the ability to say you know I'm not sure that is necessary and here is why."

I was totally fine the exchange between you and Wakaflame201 until you became, how did you put it "holy death bats, can you hear yourself? your tone is super condescending and elitist". Which you still refuse to acknowledge, but that's cool.

I agree with you on many points about pvp. It needs a complete overhaul, but I am convinced that is highly unlikely to ever happen. All KI does is patchwork when it comes to pvp. Which is probably one reason why you see so many "nerf this" posts. Only When enough people complain and they tired of hearing it, tada!

"will nerfing one little spell make a difference if the system itself is ill?"

Not in the slightest, but this is the only way KI seems to respond to creating some sort of balance.

So on that note,

Nerf fire beetles now!

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Mr Talon on Nov 20, 2017 wrote:
"i don't object to people saying "nerf this""

"ever notice that this board is filled with pvp players crying about how such-and-such is overpowered because it was used to defeat me and now i want that spell nerfed? no? then please, allow me to live under the same rock as you, because i'm sick of it."

"a 2-pip spell that (for reasons already covered) is easily countered"

I agree, you can easily counter fire beetle spell in so many ways that I don't have room to list them all. Now, how do you counter that follow up burning rampage from second? And oh my, now it has all these lovely stacked traps to use courtesy of.... fire beetles.

"and now i ask you this: why is it okay for one side to be vocal in expressing their displeasure, but not the other?"

You must have skimmed my post, here are some excerpts;

"Everyone should have a voice here, and their ideas a chance to see if it can stand the scrutiny of the community through counter arguments. Even when that happens it's still up to the developers to decide to implement it."

and...

"If you disagree with the posters ideas, you and everyone else should have the ability to say you know I'm not sure that is necessary and here is why."

I was totally fine the exchange between you and Wakaflame201 until you became, how did you put it "holy death bats, can you hear yourself? your tone is super condescending and elitist". Which you still refuse to acknowledge, but that's cool.

I agree with you on many points about pvp. It needs a complete overhaul, but I am convinced that is highly unlikely to ever happen. All KI does is patchwork when it comes to pvp. Which is probably one reason why you see so many "nerf this" posts. Only When enough people complain and they tired of hearing it, tada!

"will nerfing one little spell make a difference if the system itself is ill?"

Not in the slightest, but this is the only way KI seems to respond to creating some sort of balance.

So on that note,

Nerf fire beetles now!
you claim that i skimmed your post, and yet you've done exactly the same.

if you'd read the whole thing, you'd have seen that i have no issues with people saying "nerf this", provided that two conditions are met:

1) if something is truly unbalanced;
2) if there is a valid reason that such-and-such is "overpowered".

if op had positioned it as "fire beetle is tough to counter in pvp because x/y/z, here is my proposed solution and feel free to make suggestions etc.", it would have been a different story. but i've never heard anyone do this, instead jumping straight to "it's op and i want it gone", and i am indeed sick of it.

also, re: "holy death bats, can you hear yourself?"

^i stand by that statement, as it is from another board and is not part of this conversation. in fact, the post that statement was directed at was this one:

"Let me know what you think guys and please no bias comment, enough is enough. We can all agree it needs a change... P.S I have all 7 schools so don't even think about it."


if you're going to quote me, at least pull quotes from the right conversation instead of taking them out of context.

on that note, let's nerf fire beetle. and, while we're at it, we'll nerf everything else too, since someone somewhere thinks it's overpowered.

(oh, but pve players are struggling, von? it's already too easy~ you're just a lazy, flithy, casual peasant, so be quiet and git gud.)

-von

Champion
Jun 26, 2009
429
Dr Von on Nov 21, 2017 wrote:
you claim that i skimmed your post, and yet you've done exactly the same.

if you'd read the whole thing, you'd have seen that i have no issues with people saying "nerf this", provided that two conditions are met:

1) if something is truly unbalanced;
2) if there is a valid reason that such-and-such is "overpowered".

if op had positioned it as "fire beetle is tough to counter in pvp because x/y/z, here is my proposed solution and feel free to make suggestions etc.", it would have been a different story. but i've never heard anyone do this, instead jumping straight to "it's op and i want it gone", and i am indeed sick of it.

also, re: "holy death bats, can you hear yourself?"

^i stand by that statement, as it is from another board and is not part of this conversation. in fact, the post that statement was directed at was this one:

"Let me know what you think guys and please no bias comment, enough is enough. We can all agree it needs a change... P.S I have all 7 schools so don't even think about it."


if you're going to quote me, at least pull quotes from the right conversation instead of taking them out of context.

on that note, let's nerf fire beetle. and, while we're at it, we'll nerf everything else too, since someone somewhere thinks it's overpowered.

(oh, but pve players are struggling, von? it's already too easy~ you're just a lazy, flithy, casual peasant, so be quiet and git gud.)

-von
Oh I read that part, but since you want to bring up your specific exceptions;

1) if something is truly unbalanced;
2) if there is a valid reason that such-and-such is "overpowered".

So every elemental and spiritual school has a basic 2-pip attack (EDIT: storm beetle is 1 pip) that leaves one trap or one blade. Of those 6 only one leaves 3 effects. How you overlook that glaringly imbalance is mystifying.

And because wakaflame201 original post on fire beetle didn't meet the parameters you proposed you get the right to be condescending to him? And you're ok with it.

It's good to know you stand by being a condescending elitist. As for you saying that to someone else on a different thread is irrelevant, you said it. How do you absolve yourself of responsibility of what you have written because you wrote it somewhere else on these boards?

No, let's not nerf everything. Let's discuss the merits and drawbacks to see if there is a need for a spell or game mechanic to be revisited.

I see you also like to be petty. The end of your post is so unnecessary. If you are really sick of posts like these just don't read them, it really is that simple. Sound familiar?

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
Mr Talon on Nov 21, 2017 wrote:
Oh I read that part, but since you want to bring up your specific exceptions;

1) if something is truly unbalanced;
2) if there is a valid reason that such-and-such is "overpowered".

So every elemental and spiritual school has a basic 2-pip attack (EDIT: storm beetle is 1 pip) that leaves one trap or one blade. Of those 6 only one leaves 3 effects. How you overlook that glaringly imbalance is mystifying.

And because wakaflame201 original post on fire beetle didn't meet the parameters you proposed you get the right to be condescending to him? And you're ok with it.

It's good to know you stand by being a condescending elitist. As for you saying that to someone else on a different thread is irrelevant, you said it. How do you absolve yourself of responsibility of what you have written because you wrote it somewhere else on these boards?

No, let's not nerf everything. Let's discuss the merits and drawbacks to see if there is a need for a spell or game mechanic to be revisited.

I see you also like to be petty. The end of your post is so unnecessary. If you are really sick of posts like these just don't read them, it really is that simple. Sound familiar?
i stand by everything i've said thus far, though i am responsible only for the words i speak and in the contexts they are spoken, not your selective interpretation thereof. please stop twisting my words as a means to whatever end you hope to achieve.

how is disagreeing with someone being condescending or elitist? remove dissenting opinions from the equation and all we have is a bunch of people stroking each other's egos, with no real solutions ever put forth. you claim that you want to discuss merits and drawbacks, and yet you shut down people who try to do just that, doing the exact same things you're accusing me of.

given that the pvp community has been doing the same to us for years, any time a pve player asks for a specific spell/boss/mob to be toned down, i'm not exactly sympathetic when they want everything nerfed.

it's obvious that we will never agree on this topic, therefore i have nothing more to say to you; have a nice day.

-von