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A Compromise for "Cheating" Bosses

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Aug 23, 2016
1059
A few days ago a post was written wherein the poster requested that KI remove cheating bosses. Responses varied from "Yes, stop the cheating" to "No, it makes the game more interesting" (my paraphrasing of the numerous responses).

My own personal thoughts are Keep the Bosses, as it DOES make the game a little more interesting. (where's the fun if all a team needs to do to defeat EVERY boss is to keep everyone healed long enough to buff the heck out whoever has the largest AOE spell in their deck).

May I humbly suggest this compromise: (I'm quoting myself here as I don't want to re-type)

<---begin quote--->
I find it frustrating the first time I battle a boss and discovers he/she cheats (Belloq being the most recent example and Chester Drawers the one that sticks in my craw). It does provide a challenge that keeps the game interesting.

That said, having to go to the internet and find someone who has figured out the strategy behind the boss cheat is not the most fun thing to do while playing the game.

I would recommend a compromise of sorts:

1. Make gear with "Maycasts" a bit more common, expensive YES. But definitely more common, it would alleviate the notion that only the bosses can cheat.

2. There should be a "know-it-all" character on every world (Like Prospector Zeke) that could provide in game hints for defeating the bosses. After, a third unsuccessful attempt, his icon could pop up and could tell the wizard something like, "Belloq, yeah I've never had the pleasure of tangling with him, but there is a tell-all biography in the Boabab Library." or "That boss continues to cast RA? Hmmm I seem to recall that Headmaster Ambrose has a book in his office that talks about that"

I know that the phrases spoken by the Cheating Boss are supposed to give us a hint, but unfortunately in my case those hints have only made sense once I've googled someone's blog on "How to defeat Boss X".

Once you've talked with the "Know-it-All" character (Shelbus Gruffheart? he DOES collect rare items from all over the spiral, Prospector Zeke? He's been everywhere) you then have a side quest to wherever the hint is and it is then read to us by the soothing vocal tones of the Narrator (and I won't spoil that tidbit for those who haven't been to Wintertusk yet).

Just a thought for improving the game.

Steven Ghoststalker
73

Astrologist
Aug 23, 2016
1059
I'm surprised.

This post has had enough views that it has stayed a "Hot Topic". Yet no one has commented one way or another. 60+ people have been interested enough to read it but not one comment yea or nay.

Interesting.

Steven Ghoststalker
73

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1895
Sometimes I just can't think of anything to say and when that happens, I don't ... say anything. This post was one of those occasions, I guess. (That's why I marked your post in a supportive way but otherwise didn't comment on it.) I'm commenting now only because you seemed disturbed that no one commented.

Anyway.

Um.

Wracking my brains here...

No, still can't come up with anything to add to your idea, except maybe to say: a side-quest to introduce really tough cheating bosses and dungeons before you use the "team-up" function for the first time might not be a bad idea, either. It might make the teams run a little more smoothly if everyone gets a tutorial on what to expect before they go in.

Alia Misthaven

Defender
Apr 03, 2016
120
Area51Alien on Aug 15, 2017 wrote:
A few days ago a post was written wherein the poster requested that KI remove cheating bosses. Responses varied from "Yes, stop the cheating" to "No, it makes the game more interesting" (my paraphrasing of the numerous responses).

My own personal thoughts are Keep the Bosses, as it DOES make the game a little more interesting. (where's the fun if all a team needs to do to defeat EVERY boss is to keep everyone healed long enough to buff the heck out whoever has the largest AOE spell in their deck).

May I humbly suggest this compromise: (I'm quoting myself here as I don't want to re-type)

<---begin quote--->
I find it frustrating the first time I battle a boss and discovers he/she cheats (Belloq being the most recent example and Chester Drawers the one that sticks in my craw). It does provide a challenge that keeps the game interesting.

That said, having to go to the internet and find someone who has figured out the strategy behind the boss cheat is not the most fun thing to do while playing the game.

I would recommend a compromise of sorts:

1. Make gear with "Maycasts" a bit more common, expensive YES. But definitely more common, it would alleviate the notion that only the bosses can cheat.

2. There should be a "know-it-all" character on every world (Like Prospector Zeke) that could provide in game hints for defeating the bosses. After, a third unsuccessful attempt, his icon could pop up and could tell the wizard something like, "Belloq, yeah I've never had the pleasure of tangling with him, but there is a tell-all biography in the Boabab Library." or "That boss continues to cast RA? Hmmm I seem to recall that Headmaster Ambrose has a book in his office that talks about that"

I know that the phrases spoken by the Cheating Boss are supposed to give us a hint, but unfortunately in my case those hints have only made sense once I've googled someone's blog on "How to defeat Boss X".

Once you've talked with the "Know-it-All" character (Shelbus Gruffheart? he DOES collect rare items from all over the spiral, Prospector Zeke? He's been everywhere) you then have a side quest to wherever the hint is and it is then read to us by the soothing vocal tones of the Narrator (and I won't spoil that tidbit for those who haven't been to Wintertusk yet).

Just a thought for improving the game.

Steven Ghoststalker
73
Woo! I've been waiting for this! :P Yeah I definitely Agree! And I cant think of anything! :D so... RIP! :)

Astrologist
Aug 23, 2016
1059
Freshta on Aug 18, 2017 wrote:
Sometimes I just can't think of anything to say and when that happens, I don't ... say anything. This post was one of those occasions, I guess. (That's why I marked your post in a supportive way but otherwise didn't comment on it.) I'm commenting now only because you seemed disturbed that no one commented.

Anyway.

Um.

Wracking my brains here...

No, still can't come up with anything to add to your idea, except maybe to say: a side-quest to introduce really tough cheating bosses and dungeons before you use the "team-up" function for the first time might not be a bad idea, either. It might make the teams run a little more smoothly if everyone gets a tutorial on what to expect before they go in.

Alia Misthaven
Disturbed? maybe. Upset? no. Surprised? yes.

I felt like I was standing in front of class giving an oral report and got NO reaction.

Thank you for changing that.

I actually do like your addition. As I stated previously, I may be in the minority, but the "Shouts" that the Cheating Bosses use before the cheat have yet to make me understand what I'm supposed to do to get around the cheat, at least until I've read someone else's blog on what to do. Then I can usually see the relevance.

Steven Ghoststalker
73

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1895
Area51Alien on Aug 19, 2017 wrote:
Disturbed? maybe. Upset? no. Surprised? yes.

I felt like I was standing in front of class giving an oral report and got NO reaction.

Thank you for changing that.

I actually do like your addition. As I stated previously, I may be in the minority, but the "Shouts" that the Cheating Bosses use before the cheat have yet to make me understand what I'm supposed to do to get around the cheat, at least until I've read someone else's blog on what to do. Then I can usually see the relevance.

Steven Ghoststalker
73
Yeah the 'shouts' aren't very helpful.

I usually rely on cause-and-effect to figure out what can't be done in a cheating battle. For every new battle, I just start my normal routine but with an eye open for what happens with every move I make. If I put up a blade and he takes it away ... that's a pretty clear sign that I'm not going to be using blades in that battle.

Sometimes I can adapt on the fly and get through the battle on a first try. Sometimes I can't. If the cheat is a painful one, then I stick with the battle and keep testing what I can and can't do, but now accepting that I'll be defeated for that first effort. And it's fine, because I'm learning what not to do next time.

After I suffer my (planned) loss, then I go back outside and reconsider what strategy I'll need in order to defeat that boss. If it's a big, mean dungeon or a final boss, I often skip the "test battle" and go straight to one of the guides. Because, like you said, the 'shouts' don't help much.

Alia Misthaven

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
Area51Alien on Aug 15, 2017 wrote:
A few days ago a post was written wherein the poster requested that KI remove cheating bosses. Responses varied from "Yes, stop the cheating" to "No, it makes the game more interesting" (my paraphrasing of the numerous responses).

My own personal thoughts are Keep the Bosses, as it DOES make the game a little more interesting. (where's the fun if all a team needs to do to defeat EVERY boss is to keep everyone healed long enough to buff the heck out whoever has the largest AOE spell in their deck).

May I humbly suggest this compromise: (I'm quoting myself here as I don't want to re-type)

<---begin quote--->
I find it frustrating the first time I battle a boss and discovers he/she cheats (Belloq being the most recent example and Chester Drawers the one that sticks in my craw). It does provide a challenge that keeps the game interesting.

That said, having to go to the internet and find someone who has figured out the strategy behind the boss cheat is not the most fun thing to do while playing the game.

I would recommend a compromise of sorts:

1. Make gear with "Maycasts" a bit more common, expensive YES. But definitely more common, it would alleviate the notion that only the bosses can cheat.

2. There should be a "know-it-all" character on every world (Like Prospector Zeke) that could provide in game hints for defeating the bosses. After, a third unsuccessful attempt, his icon could pop up and could tell the wizard something like, "Belloq, yeah I've never had the pleasure of tangling with him, but there is a tell-all biography in the Boabab Library." or "That boss continues to cast RA? Hmmm I seem to recall that Headmaster Ambrose has a book in his office that talks about that"

I know that the phrases spoken by the Cheating Boss are supposed to give us a hint, but unfortunately in my case those hints have only made sense once I've googled someone's blog on "How to defeat Boss X".

Once you've talked with the "Know-it-All" character (Shelbus Gruffheart? he DOES collect rare items from all over the spiral, Prospector Zeke? He's been everywhere) you then have a side quest to wherever the hint is and it is then read to us by the soothing vocal tones of the Narrator (and I won't spoil that tidbit for those who haven't been to Wintertusk yet).

Just a thought for improving the game.

Steven Ghoststalker
73
Something you have to understand is that people might not always want to reply when a post is given. Maybe they feel they'll be laughed at, or put down for their ideas. This is unfortunately a side effect of social media in general.

Let me comment my thoughts after reading this post again:

1) The issue I have with maycast weapons, is that many of the items just aren't worth the cost (to me) to buy/craft them. Either the crafting is rediculous compared to my very low usage of the item, or the crown cost is just way too prohibitive. I dont get crowns more than once a year, and have various things I need to do with them. I dont have the income to continually get crowns just to buy packs in HOPES of a lucky drop. Im not complaining and asking to up the drop rate, just stating a simple fact that the drop rates are low, I dont have the money to drop on them, and my RNG luck is horrendous.

I would love to see more useful wands come out. Newer wands also tend to be school locked. So, if I want a wand that casts life spells, I have to be life school to use it. I run opposite school wands and these newer ones dont allow that. I have suggested before to allow us to craft wands, with the Moon school Shift spells, and allow us to craft it to our uses. Why should my death wizard be forced to only have the option to use death wand hits (which will steal my blades) and then Shift Sugarglider. My Life wizard uses the Eye of the Soothsayer wand because it gives me Death wand hits, increased death damage, and a shift spell that wont take my blades.

More of these types of wands would be nice, and the Moon school shift spells are a perfect chance to use spells in the game in a way that makes sense. Nobody can be Moon School so we have to use power pips; and the cost is WAY too high without being able to use powerpips.

2) Know it all character - I like that idea. It at least gives an in game point in the right direction.

Defender
Apr 03, 2016
120
Area51Alien on Aug 15, 2017 wrote:
A few days ago a post was written wherein the poster requested that KI remove cheating bosses. Responses varied from "Yes, stop the cheating" to "No, it makes the game more interesting" (my paraphrasing of the numerous responses).

My own personal thoughts are Keep the Bosses, as it DOES make the game a little more interesting. (where's the fun if all a team needs to do to defeat EVERY boss is to keep everyone healed long enough to buff the heck out whoever has the largest AOE spell in their deck).

May I humbly suggest this compromise: (I'm quoting myself here as I don't want to re-type)

<---begin quote--->
I find it frustrating the first time I battle a boss and discovers he/she cheats (Belloq being the most recent example and Chester Drawers the one that sticks in my craw). It does provide a challenge that keeps the game interesting.

That said, having to go to the internet and find someone who has figured out the strategy behind the boss cheat is not the most fun thing to do while playing the game.

I would recommend a compromise of sorts:

1. Make gear with "Maycasts" a bit more common, expensive YES. But definitely more common, it would alleviate the notion that only the bosses can cheat.

2. There should be a "know-it-all" character on every world (Like Prospector Zeke) that could provide in game hints for defeating the bosses. After, a third unsuccessful attempt, his icon could pop up and could tell the wizard something like, "Belloq, yeah I've never had the pleasure of tangling with him, but there is a tell-all biography in the Boabab Library." or "That boss continues to cast RA? Hmmm I seem to recall that Headmaster Ambrose has a book in his office that talks about that"

I know that the phrases spoken by the Cheating Boss are supposed to give us a hint, but unfortunately in my case those hints have only made sense once I've googled someone's blog on "How to defeat Boss X".

Once you've talked with the "Know-it-All" character (Shelbus Gruffheart? he DOES collect rare items from all over the spiral, Prospector Zeke? He's been everywhere) you then have a side quest to wherever the hint is and it is then read to us by the soothing vocal tones of the Narrator (and I won't spoil that tidbit for those who haven't been to Wintertusk yet).

Just a thought for improving the game.

Steven Ghoststalker
73
Maybe there can be a Side Quest from Diego for Cheating Bosses and he Tells you All you Need to Know, What Kind of Cheats Bosses Use, And Whether They Allow Things or Not!

Astrologist
Aug 23, 2016
1059
@DayeRider - My point exactly. The higher level a wizard is the more "cheating" bosses one runs into. KI should make it easier for a more powerful wizard to obtain artifacts or spells that allow them to "bend" the rules of magic. Something near impossible for level 10 wizard should be doable for a level 50 and "easy" for a level 100. So some of these "impossible to craft" items should become easier to obtain the higher your level.

And having an ability to bend the "laws" of magic yourself would take some of the sting out of meeting a Boss who can bend the rules.

@Freshta - Yeah more or less what I do, but then that's why I think that having an in-game source for hints on how to defeat said boss would come in handy.

Steven Ghoststalker
73