Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Are you a fan of a 3 Pip Fire From Above? 0 Pip Dispels to your school? What about a 3 Pip Mana Burn? Well, thanks to Elucidate, this can and does happen.
Available (rarely) via the Bazaar or (apparently) by Wooden / Silver chests in Celestia, Elucidate reduces a spell pip cost by 2 (Simplify 1). Not commonly seen among the so-called 'regular' players, among the upper echelons of PVP this spell is used often to get the works on over your opponent.
Not to be repetitive here, but I am calling for a PVP ban on this spell. Why? In short, Dispels. You can 0 Pip Dispel spam an opponent while gaining pips of your own, keeping your opponent in a deadlock until you are ready to hit with your shadow-enhanced spell. For schools like Ice, winning against any school whatsoever, from first, can be ridiculously easy:
Spam a 0 Pip Dispel until you can Abominable Weaver, repeat. Is this what PVP is supposed to be like? I fail to see the skill involved here.
With this card in the mix, winning from second becomes even more difficult than it already is. I mean, a 3 Pip Glowbug Squall? You've got to be kidding.
Thankfully, these TC are rare enough where people will rarely use more than one or two per game, however, even that is too many.
I feel that these TC are completely game-unbalancing - not that there seems to be much balance left - and they should be utterly disallowed in the interest of preserving the integrity of PVP.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
I'm not entirely sure (I've only been playing a few years), but I think it was PvP that had the proper spell versions removed. If it's simply a PvP ban I couldn't care less, but if you're suggesting we kill the TC entirely; no.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
There is a reason this tc is so rare. It is OP and because it is OP elucidate is very limited to all players making it unspammable. It's true that if a player had many elucidate tc they could potentially spam dispels but that would be a waste considering how rare it is. I don't mind one or two elucidated spells per match but spamming them is when it becomes unskilled game play in the arena. Elucidate is meant to catch your opponent off guard unready for your attack. I think its strong but not good enough to be banned.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
N3M3SIS98 on Jan 19, 2016 wrote:
There is a reason this tc is so rare. It is OP and because it is OP elucidate is very limited to all players making it unspammable. It's true that if a player had many elucidate tc they could potentially spam dispels but that would be a waste considering how rare it is. I don't mind one or two elucidated spells per match but spamming them is when it becomes unskilled game play in the arena. Elucidate is meant to catch your opponent off guard unready for your attack. I think its strong but not good enough to be banned.
Sorry dude, but even one is too many in a meta where a missed turn can (and usually does) cost you the match.
Going second is hard enough without the added factor of 0 pip dispels. Just now I was in Shrike Mode vs a Fire (Ranked PVP), and he spammed me with 2 Elude Balance dispels in a row while gaining pips for his FFA. Which cost me the game, because my Mana Burn was dispelled, and my Loremaster after that. And it cost him ZERO pips.
It's frankly pathetic, and I'm not going to sit around and say nothing while PVP is eviscerated by players that can only succeed by taking advantage of the existing system at the expense of everyone else. (cough jade angels, elude spammers, queue watchers, etc).
There needs to be some serious changes in PVP, preferably before nobody bothers to play anymore. I'm hoping KI is listening.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
You can't really spam Elucidate. Every wizard gets 2 in Celestia questing. You can find them very rarely in the Bazaar, but since it cannot be farmed it's impossible to stock up many. In the grand scheme of things, these cards are so rare that they doesn't have any real effect on PvP.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
seethe42 on Jan 22, 2016 wrote:
You can't really spam Elucidate. Every wizard gets 2 in Celestia questing. You can find them very rarely in the Bazaar, but since it cannot be farmed it's impossible to stock up many. In the grand scheme of things, these cards are so rare that they doesn't have any real effect on PvP.
What??? I have 1200+ rank and I say that they do have quite a bit of an effect, thank you very much. What's your PVP rating? 800? 50% chance says you don't even PVP. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.
Sure you never see Elucidate at -1000 rank. Try 1200+ and get back to me. Also Crunkatog, thanks for the input; it's good to know.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Exabytes on Jan 22, 2016 wrote:
What??? I have 1200+ rank and I say that they do have quite a bit of an effect, thank you very much. What's your PVP rating? 800? 50% chance says you don't even PVP. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about.
Sure you never see Elucidate at -1000 rank. Try 1200+ and get back to me. Also Crunkatog, thanks for the input; it's good to know.
Seethe is completely right, he wouldn't make it to Archon without knowing his stuff. You may encounter the odd spammer or two, but there's probably only 500,000 players who made it past Follow the Leader. Multiply that by 4 because we're allowed 6 characters and some people don't use all (or get them to CL): 2,000,000. About 4,000,000 Elucidates in game. Consider about 3/4 of those have been used, 1,000,000. Now how many would the average PvP dispel spam strategy? I'm guessing about 5, but they can also be used in other strategies, so we'll divide by 10 including those. 100,000. That's only about 100,000 games. I'm guessing there's about 5 times that many PvP players. So there's a 1 in 100,000 chance of you having a dispel spammer.
Of course there's no telling how many Simplifies there are, but that still takes a pip. Calling Seethe inexperienced is a bad move.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Blaze Sandblade on Jan 22, 2016 wrote:
Seethe is completely right, he wouldn't make it to Archon without knowing his stuff. You may encounter the odd spammer or two, but there's probably only 500,000 players who made it past Follow the Leader. Multiply that by 4 because we're allowed 6 characters and some people don't use all (or get them to CL): 2,000,000. About 4,000,000 Elucidates in game. Consider about 3/4 of those have been used, 1,000,000. Now how many would the average PvP dispel spam strategy? I'm guessing about 5, but they can also be used in other strategies, so we'll divide by 10 including those. 100,000. That's only about 100,000 games. I'm guessing there's about 5 times that many PvP players. So there's a 1 in 100,000 chance of you having a dispel spammer.
Of course there's no telling how many Simplifies there are, but that still takes a pip. Calling Seethe inexperienced is a bad move.
Considering that Wizard101 reached the 50 million player base the year before last, I would say that 500,000 is quite a conservative estimate. I'd say 5-10 million, which combined with Bazaar farming and the players that trade Elucidate for Pet hatch, conceivably makes 50 Million Elucidates for use since the Celestia update.
As for your 1 in 100,000 chance, I suppose that I did not play anybody yesterday or the day before or the day before that that used Elucidate on a dispel in any of my duels, is that correct? Well I'm going to call both of you on this one, because I did. And not to be rude, but I couldn't care less about what you or anyone else thinks is a 'bad move' on my part. I know what my experience has been, and I also know that neither of you are correctly informed on this topic at this moment in time.
If you don't believe me, go to the Arena and watch any Max-Level Leaderboard PVP matches (1200+ vs 1200+). Preferably vs Balance, because it seems to me most people use Elucidate on Unbalance nowadays. I guarantee if you look even half-decently you will find Elucidate being used, usually on a dispel.
And as for 'spamming' Elucidate dispels, well of course nobody will use Elude without a purpose, it's too valuable. I just call it 'spam' because it's a pathetic way to win, in my opinion (and in many others').
And Crunkatog, thanks for the input on Simplify - it's good to know.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Exabytes on Jan 24, 2016 wrote:
Considering that Wizard101 reached the 50 million player base the year before last, I would say that 500,000 is quite a conservative estimate. I'd say 5-10 million, which combined with Bazaar farming and the players that trade Elucidate for Pet hatch, conceivably makes 50 Million Elucidates for use since the Celestia update.
As for your 1 in 100,000 chance, I suppose that I did not play anybody yesterday or the day before or the day before that that used Elucidate on a dispel in any of my duels, is that correct? Well I'm going to call both of you on this one, because I did. And not to be rude, but I couldn't care less about what you or anyone else thinks is a 'bad move' on my part. I know what my experience has been, and I also know that neither of you are correctly informed on this topic at this moment in time.
If you don't believe me, go to the Arena and watch any Max-Level Leaderboard PVP matches (1200+ vs 1200+). Preferably vs Balance, because it seems to me most people use Elucidate on Unbalance nowadays. I guarantee if you look even half-decently you will find Elucidate being used, usually on a dispel.
And as for 'spamming' Elucidate dispels, well of course nobody will use Elude without a purpose, it's too valuable. I just call it 'spam' because it's a pathetic way to win, in my opinion (and in many others').
And Crunkatog, thanks for the input on Simplify - it's good to know.
I don't see how trading somehow creates new TCs. If 5-10 million have completed Follow the Leader, then there can only be a maximum of 10-20 million Elucidates. And my guess of at least 3/4 of them already being used is pretty accurate if not being generous, let's call it 4/5 actually, leaving 2-4 mil Elucidates. And plenty of these are being used by PvE or other strategies, so let's call it 1 mil (being extremely generous to you) in PvP dispelling. Personally I wasn't aware of the sheer numbers of players, but I'm guessing at least half dropped out before Cyclops Lane, and even more along the way.
So a 1,000,000 in what chance, exactly? How many players do you think use PvP? Given your adamancy and constant posts about PvP being important, you probably see it at around 10,000,000. So 1 in 10. Quite a leap from 1 in 100,000, I must admit I was wrong about that, but still not too common. And before you start complaining about 1 in 10 being unfair and you not being able to progress; I have four words for you. Buy. A. Mastery. Amulet. Simple enough, or you could at least farm for one. I play a 64 with mastery in CL right now, and Gargantuan+Humongofrog has become my new best friend.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Blaze Sandblade on Jan 24, 2016 wrote:
I don't see how trading somehow creates new TCs. If 5-10 million have completed Follow the Leader, then there can only be a maximum of 10-20 million Elucidates. And my guess of at least 3/4 of them already being used is pretty accurate if not being generous, let's call it 4/5 actually, leaving 2-4 mil Elucidates. And plenty of these are being used by PvE or other strategies, so let's call it 1 mil (being extremely generous to you) in PvP dispelling. Personally I wasn't aware of the sheer numbers of players, but I'm guessing at least half dropped out before Cyclops Lane, and even more along the way.
So a 1,000,000 in what chance, exactly? How many players do you think use PvP? Given your adamancy and constant posts about PvP being important, you probably see it at around 10,000,000. So 1 in 10. Quite a leap from 1 in 100,000, I must admit I was wrong about that, but still not too common. And before you start complaining about 1 in 10 being unfair and you not being able to progress; I have four words for you. Buy. A. Mastery. Amulet. Simple enough, or you could at least farm for one. I play a 64 with mastery in CL right now, and Gargantuan+Humongofrog has become my new best friend.
PVE Dispelling? What? Unless that was a typo, I'm talking about PVP dispelling...and your last post is a bit confusing. Use PVP? Who said anything about progression?
I am already Max level on my Balance, have 4 wizards past Celestia, and as for Mastery amulets, have , , , , and , and will be getting soon. I have no problem with questing (except for Azteca on my , and I used my mastery then), and I am totally fine with Elucidate being used in PVE. It's the use of it in PVP that I am talking about.
And as for Elude users that I see in PVP (at my level), it is around 1 player in 20, with that being progressively more likely the higher rating they have.
So no it is not THAT common, but enough to write a post about.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Exabytes on Jan 25, 2016 wrote:
PVE Dispelling? What? Unless that was a typo, I'm talking about PVP dispelling...and your last post is a bit confusing. Use PVP? Who said anything about progression?
I am already Max level on my Balance, have 4 wizards past Celestia, and as for Mastery amulets, have , , , , and , and will be getting soon. I have no problem with questing (except for Azteca on my , and I used my mastery then), and I am totally fine with Elucidate being used in PVE. It's the use of it in PVP that I am talking about.
And as for Elude users that I see in PVP (at my level), it is around 1 player in 20, with that being progressively more likely the higher rating they have.
So no it is not THAT common, but enough to write a post about.
Sorry, that was a typo, I fixed it. But I'm not talking about using Mastery in PvE, but say you use a Judgement strategy and find an Unbalance spammer. Mastery, Heck Hound. Say you use a Sandstorm/Nova/Ra strategy. & Frog, & Tempest, & Deer Knight. There is a way around every strategy, even dispel spammers.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
I do not really play PvP, but I think this may be a strategy worth trying. So I am assuming you are mainly balance. Build up a lot of neutral blades and traps such as balance blade and feint. The person you are up against will probably dispel balance. Get some mastery amulet and attack with another school. Again, this may not be good, but worth a shot. If this needs touching up, could you tell me what needs to be fixed? Thanks! I would like to have a store of good strategies. :)
However, that does not fix the problem, especially on your other characters. There is really not much us wizards can do though. I think that stating your problem was smart, but it may not cause the problem to be fixed. A lot of people have chewed up on the new crit-system, but nothing has been changed. Why? KI has decided that it is a interesting aspect of the game that would change game-play strategies. I guess that is the case here as well.
I am not meaning to imply need to you quit PvP, but if you are finding it frustrating and rather annoying at points, is it worth it? I guess you will just have to evaluate if the prizes and amount of fun you get is worth all the annoying bits.
I downloaded an app a while ago that I really liked! However they kept updating it and it just got very frustrating to play. I spent money on the app, but I do not like what it had become. I am sure some people liked the updates, and some of them were good, but mainly they were bad. If you feel PvP is ruined, no one is forcing you to play. Some people must like the updates and such, but you don't and that is fine. Your life, you can have whatever opinions you want.
Anyways the point of this is the fact it probably will not be fixed, and you need to check that you are enjoying this aspect of the game, not just being frustrated with it. This is a game after all, and the purpose of the game is enjoyment.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
I remeber when these spells first came out and omg did people whine about that(just like they whine about every other change ever made in the history of ever)
You said this happens once or twice in per fight, worst case it sounds like you lose a turn and maybe lose a few points off your precious rating.
I hate to sound rude but It doesn't sound like an epidemic that calls for banning, especially if you consider the fact that they could probably put that oh so annoying dispel on you anyway. And still turn around stun/hit you on top of it. So get some wand spells and some cleanses, maybe some off school hits and carry on.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Discord Spiders on Jan 25, 2016 wrote:
I remeber when these spells first came out and omg did people whine about that(just like they whine about every other change ever made in the history of ever)
You said this happens once or twice in per fight, worst case it sounds like you lose a turn and maybe lose a few points off your precious rating.
I hate to sound rude but It doesn't sound like an epidemic that calls for banning, especially if you consider the fact that they could probably put that oh so annoying dispel on you anyway. And still turn around stun/hit you on top of it. So get some wand spells and some cleanses, maybe some off school hits and carry on.
2 Pip Dispels: annoying but eh, it uses their pips. (And I get regular dispelled all the time, but I'm not asking to ban Dispels.)
0 Pip Dispels: Just unfair, especially from second. Of course you might not think that's a big deal (I mean, nobody cares about PVP right), but it becomes quite irritating when you lose that Mana Burn you were intending, and now your opponent can hit with his enhanced spell for free (with you unshielded). Or even if you have a shield, and you're second, you're now in a deadlock and have to shield every turn until you can get 2 of the same shield on so you can remove the dispel safely.
And that's just the dispel part of it. Elude can be used on attacks too, like * cough * FFA, Hungry Caterpillar, etc. I've seen it used on heals as well. You like a 3 Pip Guardian Spirit?
This is only my opinion, but I think that Elucidate is certainly bad for PVP, because it ruins the established order of spells. And while Elucidate's use isn't an epidemic, it isn't exactly a fringe case either.
Re: Elucidate / Simplify. How can these TC even exist?
Rebecca Ashhunter on Jan 25, 2016 wrote:
I do not really play PvP, but I think this may be a strategy worth trying. So I am assuming you are mainly balance. Build up a lot of neutral blades and traps such as balance blade and feint. The person you are up against will probably dispel balance. Get some mastery amulet and attack with another school. Again, this may not be good, but worth a shot. If this needs touching up, could you tell me what needs to be fixed? Thanks! I would like to have a store of good strategies. :)
However, that does not fix the problem, especially on your other characters. There is really not much us wizards can do though. I think that stating your problem was smart, but it may not cause the problem to be fixed. A lot of people have chewed up on the new crit-system, but nothing has been changed. Why? KI has decided that it is a interesting aspect of the game that would change game-play strategies. I guess that is the case here as well.
I am not meaning to imply need to you quit PvP, but if you are finding it frustrating and rather annoying at points, is it worth it? I guess you will just have to evaluate if the prizes and amount of fun you get is worth all the annoying bits.
I downloaded an app a while ago that I really liked! However they kept updating it and it just got very frustrating to play. I spent money on the app, but I do not like what it had become. I am sure some people liked the updates, and some of them were good, but mainly they were bad. If you feel PvP is ruined, no one is forcing you to play. Some people must like the updates and such, but you don't and that is fine. Your life, you can have whatever opinions you want.
Anyways the point of this is the fact it probably will not be fixed, and you need to check that you are enjoying this aspect of the game, not just being frustrated with it. This is a game after all, and the purpose of the game is enjoyment.
-Rebecca Ashhunter
Nobody is forcing me to PVP, that is true. Which is why I'm currently questing on another character which I feel has more potential, and (briefly) cancelled my membership entirely.
Was it worth it? Yes, to me it was then, having achieved my goal of Overlord at Prodigious after 9 months of questing and Darkmoor. But playing for enjoyments' sake, well, hmm not so much.
Really wish someone had told me what a mess PVP was at max level, but that's neither here nor there. As for the mastery idea, it has the most merit against Jades, but Balance already hits with other schools (Nested Fury, Spectral Blast, Lycian Chimera, Chimera, Spirit Blast).
Unfortunately, the way Max PVP stands, it's just ludicrous to even think about using a Mastery for Damage purposes. I used Hybrid / gear at Azteca and it served me quite well, but that was Azteca where enemies had no resist (unless they were of that school). In fact, I'd love to see any decent mastery strategy in the Arena for offensive (not defensive) purposes at top level.
I skimmed by with Mastery, Earthquake and Medusa (for the double stun and blade removal utility, which were lifesavers), but the loss of 20% percent critical block (down to 41%) meant I was taking lots of critical hits, which weren't fun.
I tried Mastery with Efreet, and Fire Elf for the shield breaking purposes, but in the end I needed to heal too often.
I could theoretically boost my off-school damage to about 82% (with 50-ish percent native damage, but I would lose quite a bit in the way of block, and I'd need to put in off-school pierce jewels, and I'd lose resist, etc, etc.
As it stands, Mastery Amulets have a lot of potential, however the meta has not evolved to suit their use just yet. Hopefully once Mirage comes out there will be newer and better crafted gear options (a la Darkmoor).
, 70 
, 48 
, 45 
mastery in CL right now, and Gargantuan+Humongofrog has become my new best friend.
, 
soon. I have no problem with questing (except for Azteca on my 
enhanced spell for free (with you unshielded). Or even if you have a shield, and you're second, you're now in a deadlock and have to shield every turn until you can get 2 of the same shield on so you can remove the dispel safely.