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it's time to split PVP and PVE completely

AuthorMessage
Geographer
Nov 22, 2010
836
For a long time now, KI has tried to make all the spells work both in PVP and in PVE. It's time that changed.

There is already a different set of PVP gear, useable only in PVP. It's high time that the same thing happened with spells.

Too often people that only PVP are screaming "nurf" this spell or "Nurf" that spell. Meanwhile, when those changes to in to satisfy the PVPers, the PVE players suffer and struggle.

It isn't that hard to add some code into the game to "nurf" various spells WHEN IN the arena and leave them alone otherwise.

And there is a precedent, too. Just about every other MMORPG out there that has pvp and pve, also separates how things work when in pvp or when in the game.

The game has grown way past its original design, and while I realize the original idea was that the little wizards (meaning anyone under level 50) were just getting together to try out their spells on each other - that no longer works. The game has grown, morphed, changed. PVP now needs to do so as well - and I don't mean just toss it all out and start a third age.

Though it's time for that too - unless the idea of an "age" was only mentioned so that there was an excuse to toss the original PVP setup out and start everyone over while hopefully not having to deal with screaming and hollaring as people lost their hard earned ranks.

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
This would be a pretty huge effort to keep PvE and PvP spells/gear separate, but I could also see it working if there were lots of testing, planning, and transparency from the developers.

My question is this: as long as we're pulling out all the stops, could that same amount of effort be used to remedy the problems of both without separating PvE and PvP?

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
There is no cohabitation between the 2 crowds. The rants and raves on this forum proves that. However, all the screaming and yelling has also proven another thing; that the two are separate entities, and should be played that way. There's too great a divide to keep them under one roof. between Pets, TCs, and spells, and the nerfing thereof, it is ABUNDANTLY clear to me, and many others that there is a REAL need to make changes properly, not globally. pet heals out of hand in PvP? A spell too strong for PvP? Why change it for PvE? If something is broken in PvE, why change it for PvP? I have said it more than once here, that all our spells need to be redone, so that spell after effects actually make sense. My biggest illustration is this heal debuffing. How many times, have you faced a monster that healed itself enough, to make a -50% healing weakness worth it, for PvE? Unless the monsters heal themselves more than once a fight, regularly, it's not even worth the effect. I'd rather other effects happen in place of healing weaknesses (which seems to be ALL death ever gets). What if death got healing debuffers for PvP and then curse, or plague, or anything else already in the death school as an after effect?

Historian
Nov 28, 2010
614
Lucas Rain on Mar 30, 2015 wrote:
This would be a pretty huge effort to keep PvE and PvP spells/gear separate, but I could also see it working if there were lots of testing, planning, and transparency from the developers.

My question is this: as long as we're pulling out all the stops, could that same amount of effort be used to remedy the problems of both without separating PvE and PvP?
It all depends on KI's goals. It's likely possible to build the game in a way to make spells and gear universal, which is pretty much what they're doing now. Doesn't seem to be working though, does it?

That's why making certain gear and spells not available in PvP, or nerfing them in the Arena, seems to be the only option. Enough of the fight between PvE and PvP on who should have the final say on the stats attributed to spells and gear. Give PvE what the developers are creating, and let PvP hash it out amongst themselves over whether what they get is OP or not.

Geographer
Oct 09, 2011
946
There are times I wish we could upvote posts, and this is such a moment. Every nerf that happened because something was unbalancing PvP could be revoked for PvE only, while PvP stays the same. And vice versa of course. We'd never have those kinds of nerfs again, which would be a great thing. This is needed, KingsIsle. Make it happen.

Delver
Apr 08, 2015
250
I agreed completely.

An example are Pet heals. How many times have they been nerfed? How many times have they been buffed? Your example is also very valid Dayerider. Doom and Gloom, and all those heal-preventing spells are next to useless in my book in PvE. As you said, Curses and Plagues would fit much better than healing-preventing spells.

Also, if KI ever separates PvP and PvE completely (which I highly hope they do), have everything that was nerfed in PvE because of PvP, back into its original job. I don't think it's that hard. They coded it once, all they have to do is code it again. Not like it's something like a dungeon or anything. Just some spells.

Also, maybe have pets Critical their spells? Since us PvE soloers rely heavily on pets (well, not needed, but certainly easier) this would benefit us greatly IMO. Of course, this would be done after the split between PvP and PvE.

Explorer
Dec 09, 2011
65
Max Sterling on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
I agreed completely.

An example are Pet heals. How many times have they been nerfed? How many times have they been buffed? Your example is also very valid Dayerider. Doom and Gloom, and all those heal-preventing spells are next to useless in my book in PvE. As you said, Curses and Plagues would fit much better than healing-preventing spells.

Also, if KI ever separates PvP and PvE completely (which I highly hope they do), have everything that was nerfed in PvE because of PvP, back into its original job. I don't think it's that hard. They coded it once, all they have to do is code it again. Not like it's something like a dungeon or anything. Just some spells.

Also, maybe have pets Critical their spells? Since us PvE soloers rely heavily on pets (well, not needed, but certainly easier) this would benefit us greatly IMO. Of course, this would be done after the split between PvP and PvE.
I do have a question for this.

Will that also add to bosses and minions to have higher attack spells

Will that also make bosses harder and harder for just 1 person

Though it would be good. It wouldn't be fair.

To many people would scream "Unfair" when one side gets a better version of the spell.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
copycatingwizard on Aug 5, 2015 wrote:
I do have a question for this.

Will that also add to bosses and minions to have higher attack spells

Will that also make bosses harder and harder for just 1 person

Though it would be good. It wouldn't be fair.

To many people would scream "Unfair" when one side gets a better version of the spell.
"better" is relative; we are talking about two entirely separate entities with different priorities.

though we agree on a few things here and there, what pve considers "better" (tangible stats) is usually not the same as pvp considers "better" (lots of critical, mastery amulets, pierce). you can't treat pvp like pve~ it's like comparing apples to oranges.

in dayerider's example, death has a crap-ton of healing debuffs. but, since mobs and bosses don't typically heal themselves enough to warrant anything of the sort, infection is basically a pvp spell that is utterly useless to pve players. perhaps keep infection as an after-effect on, say, dr. von's monster, for pvp; for pve, change it to a -30% plague (which is actually useful in pve).

also, i'm kinda sick of hearing about how this/that/the other thing are overpowered. guardian spirit, mana burn, wild bolt, etc., are all fine as they are/were, and they always will be. there was no need to nerf any of it for pve; pvp whined about it, and pve'ers were the ones who suffered for it.

-von