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Lower levels deserve access to crafted spells.

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Aug 25, 2011
14
Ok I recently had a character who leveled up all the way to Dragonspyre in crafting. Then recently (I understand this post is a bit late) I found out you need to complete the Zafaria crafting quest. My character is level seven and I want the spells to PvP with at level 15 so it is not possible for me to level. Low levels crafting Higher Ranked spells is not cheap, I know from experience it is a lot of hard work, in fact I found it harder because you don't have creatures that drop higher rank reagents available to you. It took a lot of time (and some crowns) to get my character to Dragonspyre crafting. I believe you should remove the side quest not allowing people to talk the the lion (forgot his name) that gives the quest for the crafting badge. If you have done that quest you know it is a struggle, so it shouldn't matter what level you are, if you put in the hard work to get to that point you deserve the spel, weather your level 7 or level 100. As long as you collected all those fossils and sunstone you deserve the badge, so please Kingsisle change this.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
This is an issue that has constantly popped up time and again in mmorpg's. The original school of thought was to have all content tied together, which caused issues like the one you describe. Then they started to separate content, and found success. The true purpose of an mmorpg is to captivate the player audience with content they find enjoyable, and dividing the content seems to be a successful key. Whatever a persons passion in games, be it crafting, racing, leveling, pvp, pve, decorating, etc. it should be allowed without being tied to some other content that isn't enjoyable to the patron. The exception being epic content/items, that should be hard to attain, and cross into other areas for completion. Wizard hasn't shown any indication of addressing issues such as these, so I wouldn't hold your breathe, but you do bring up a valid point/problem that more and more successful games are dealing with..

Explorer
Sep 15, 2015
62
The crafting quests are in each world and you're expected to do them when you reach each world. The crafted spells aren't made for level 7 so that's why you need more than just the basic wizard city crafting quest to make them. You could just level your character to the worlds with crafting quests you need to do and then do the quests then.

-Sierra Pearl
Legendary sorcerer

Explorer
Sep 15, 2015
62
I forgot to add that another way to get higher level spells in pvp is treasure cards. It's actually a much more efficient way and a strategy that most people use.

Survivor
Jul 06, 2010
16
Intrepidatius on Nov 10, 2015 wrote:
This is an issue that has constantly popped up time and again in mmorpg's. The original school of thought was to have all content tied together, which caused issues like the one you describe. Then they started to separate content, and found success. The true purpose of an mmorpg is to captivate the player audience with content they find enjoyable, and dividing the content seems to be a successful key. Whatever a persons passion in games, be it crafting, racing, leveling, pvp, pve, decorating, etc. it should be allowed without being tied to some other content that isn't enjoyable to the patron. The exception being epic content/items, that should be hard to attain, and cross into other areas for completion. Wizard hasn't shown any indication of addressing issues such as these, so I wouldn't hold your breathe, but you do bring up a valid point/problem that more and more successful games are dealing with..
I completely agree. I ran into the same scenario with my low level crafters. In addition, I ran into it again with my low level gardeners. Most are legendary gardeners, and yet have no access to purchase the new "plant all" spell. Anyone who gardens, regardless of level, knows how much time it takes to plant an entire plot of seeds. If our wizards have the necessary gardening levels, I don't see why we aren't able to have access to the same spells that our higher levels do when we also have put in the same time and effort to gain those levels. Just my two cents.

Survivor
Aug 25, 2011
14
Sierra Pearl on Nov 10, 2015 wrote:
The crafting quests are in each world and you're expected to do them when you reach each world. The crafted spells aren't made for level 7 so that's why you need more than just the basic wizard city crafting quest to make them. You could just level your character to the worlds with crafting quests you need to do and then do the quests then.

-Sierra Pearl
Legendary sorcerer
Sorry If i wasn't clear about this but I have completed all crafting up to Dragonspyre which takes a lot of work. The main reason I want the spells is so I can use the monstrous treasure card to enhance the damage of my spells, this is a very good strategy. Most people like you have said that they aren't made for level seven, but i have gotten spells from Loremaster drops on another level seven I own (he is now level 10 now) so he has Krampus, the actual card and worked in my opinion, a lot less hard then my other character has so far to earn his spell.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
In my opinion, no they don't "deserve" anything!
Why do people think they "deserve" something special? Every other wizard that's able to do what you want to do has earned the privilege to do so. You haven't worked harder than anyone else. Oh, and here's a bulletin... crafting spells for ANY level is not cheap. Amber is needed for many of the Loremaster spells and it's not easy to come by. These things are not meant to be easy to get. I, for one, would be a little bit miffed if KI were to change the requirements now after I've WORKED to get the abilities to craft higher level items, spells etc. I never felt like I "deserved" anything until I actually fulfilled the requirements. This isn't little league... you don't get a trophy just because you participated and tried really, really hard.

Survivor
Jul 06, 2010
16
TucsonWizard on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
In my opinion, no they don't "deserve" anything!
Why do people think they "deserve" something special? Every other wizard that's able to do what you want to do has earned the privilege to do so. You haven't worked harder than anyone else. Oh, and here's a bulletin... crafting spells for ANY level is not cheap. Amber is needed for many of the Loremaster spells and it's not easy to come by. These things are not meant to be easy to get. I, for one, would be a little bit miffed if KI were to change the requirements now after I've WORKED to get the abilities to craft higher level items, spells etc. I never felt like I "deserved" anything until I actually fulfilled the requirements. This isn't little league... you don't get a trophy just because you participated and tried really, really hard.
I'm not sure you read what the poster was saying fully. They were saying that they have put in the work already, but don't have the access to get to Zafaria because of level. It's not a matter of a free handout, it's about being able to be able to have the access, so they can put in the hard work it takes to make those spells. I feel the same way. My smaller wizards are also unable to craft spells, not because I haven't worked at it, but because my levels are lower than the level to get into Zafaria. I believe all the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter what your level is if you are willing to put in the work that's required to craft. If you, as a lower level, have met the same requirement as a higher level, you "deserve" the same reward on items that aren't level restricted like spells.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Sea Witch on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
I'm not sure you read what the poster was saying fully. They were saying that they have put in the work already, but don't have the access to get to Zafaria because of level. It's not a matter of a free handout, it's about being able to be able to have the access, so they can put in the hard work it takes to make those spells. I feel the same way. My smaller wizards are also unable to craft spells, not because I haven't worked at it, but because my levels are lower than the level to get into Zafaria. I believe all the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter what your level is if you are willing to put in the work that's required to craft. If you, as a lower level, have met the same requirement as a higher level, you "deserve" the same reward on items that aren't level restricted like spells.
I read what the OP said. The thing is, these abilities are scaled within the game for a reason. The OP mentioned the reason he wanted the ability to craft spells was for PvP. Maybe this is one of the reasons PvP is so broken. If you're going to PvP at low level then you shouldn't have access to any learned/trained spells that normally aren't obtainable until you get to Dragonspyre. There are ways to get these spells at lower levels by porting to the Loremaster instance and personally I don't think this should be allowed but it happens and evidently it's not considered a cheat. As Sierra Pearl mentioned, there are legitimate methods of using these spells via the TC route.
And I disagree, I think it does matter what your level is and I'll go back to my original point, there's a reason these things are scaled. It's to maintain balance in the game. You only "deserve" something when you've met all of the requirements, including level... and because a spell isn't restricted by level doesn't mean it should be freely available to anyone who wants it. The spells aren't level restricted but the ability to craft them is. This is just another method of maintaining balance.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
TucsonWizard on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
In my opinion, no they don't "deserve" anything!
Why do people think they "deserve" something special? Every other wizard that's able to do what you want to do has earned the privilege to do so. You haven't worked harder than anyone else. Oh, and here's a bulletin... crafting spells for ANY level is not cheap. Amber is needed for many of the Loremaster spells and it's not easy to come by. These things are not meant to be easy to get. I, for one, would be a little bit miffed if KI were to change the requirements now after I've WORKED to get the abilities to craft higher level items, spells etc. I never felt like I "deserved" anything until I actually fulfilled the requirements. This isn't little league... you don't get a trophy just because you participated and tried really, really hard.
I'm guessing from your remarks that you misread this thread.

Survivor
Aug 25, 2011
14
Sea Witch on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
I'm not sure you read what the poster was saying fully. They were saying that they have put in the work already, but don't have the access to get to Zafaria because of level. It's not a matter of a free handout, it's about being able to be able to have the access, so they can put in the hard work it takes to make those spells. I feel the same way. My smaller wizards are also unable to craft spells, not because I haven't worked at it, but because my levels are lower than the level to get into Zafaria. I believe all the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter what your level is if you are willing to put in the work that's required to craft. If you, as a lower level, have met the same requirement as a higher level, you "deserve" the same reward on items that aren't level restricted like spells.
Thank you for helping make things clear for others

Defender
May 23, 2009
110
Sea Witch on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
I'm not sure you read what the poster was saying fully. They were saying that they have put in the work already, but don't have the access to get to Zafaria because of level. It's not a matter of a free handout, it's about being able to be able to have the access, so they can put in the hard work it takes to make those spells. I feel the same way. My smaller wizards are also unable to craft spells, not because I haven't worked at it, but because my levels are lower than the level to get into Zafaria. I believe all the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter what your level is if you are willing to put in the work that's required to craft. If you, as a lower level, have met the same requirement as a higher level, you "deserve" the same reward on items that aren't level restricted like spells.
I thought "putting the work" includes having access to Zafaria to get the quest for the legendary artisan badge which is required to craft crafted spells for that wizard

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
TucsonWizard on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
I read what the OP said. The thing is, these abilities are scaled within the game for a reason. The OP mentioned the reason he wanted the ability to craft spells was for PvP. Maybe this is one of the reasons PvP is so broken. If you're going to PvP at low level then you shouldn't have access to any learned/trained spells that normally aren't obtainable until you get to Dragonspyre. There are ways to get these spells at lower levels by porting to the Loremaster instance and personally I don't think this should be allowed but it happens and evidently it's not considered a cheat. As Sierra Pearl mentioned, there are legitimate methods of using these spells via the TC route.
And I disagree, I think it does matter what your level is and I'll go back to my original point, there's a reason these things are scaled. It's to maintain balance in the game. You only "deserve" something when you've met all of the requirements, including level... and because a spell isn't restricted by level doesn't mean it should be freely available to anyone who wants it. The spells aren't level restricted but the ability to craft them is. This is just another method of maintaining balance.
Sorry Tuscan, but you are wrong on that. There is a difference in a road block, and not being allowed. The spell training is allowed, and earned via requirements and hard work. The only problem is there is an impediment in the way (road block) that prevents you from completing the quest, even though you have done the necessary work. This is a perfect example of content being wrongly tied to different content that the player may not wish to participate in.
A crafter should not have to participate in pve progression if it doesn't interest them. This also has nothing to do with balancing, as this unbalances crafting unduly. There is a reason that other successful mmorpg's are addressing this issue, and that is because it affords balance and makes the customers happy, and the game healthy.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Sea Witch on Nov 16, 2015 wrote:
I'm not sure you read what the poster was saying fully. They were saying that they have put in the work already, but don't have the access to get to Zafaria because of level. It's not a matter of a free handout, it's about being able to be able to have the access, so they can put in the hard work it takes to make those spells. I feel the same way. My smaller wizards are also unable to craft spells, not because I haven't worked at it, but because my levels are lower than the level to get into Zafaria. I believe all the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter what your level is if you are willing to put in the work that's required to craft. If you, as a lower level, have met the same requirement as a higher level, you "deserve" the same reward on items that aren't level restricted like spells.
You haven't met the same requirements. You must be level 55 and completed Celestia. You say the spells aren't level restricted, but the crafting of them is. A child can pick up and use a sword, only a master swordsmith after years of training can MAKE one. You can't become a Lengendary Artisan by skipping all the training, and leveling up is part of that training. It's really that simple.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Intrepidatius on Nov 17, 2015 wrote:
Sorry Tuscan, but you are wrong on that. There is a difference in a road block, and not being allowed. The spell training is allowed, and earned via requirements and hard work. The only problem is there is an impediment in the way (road block) that prevents you from completing the quest, even though you have done the necessary work. This is a perfect example of content being wrongly tied to different content that the player may not wish to participate in.
A crafter should not have to participate in pve progression if it doesn't interest them. This also has nothing to do with balancing, as this unbalances crafting unduly. There is a reason that other successful mmorpg's are addressing this issue, and that is because it affords balance and makes the customers happy, and the game healthy.
I'm not wrong because the "road block" does not make it impossible to finish the game. And you haven't done the "necessary work" because that involves reaching the correct level and access to the correct land. The game can be completed without ever crafting a thing. And that includes spells. The Loremaster spells are there to get - for anyone who wants to invest the time. Better gear is available through drops - for anyone who wants to invest the time. Nothing ever has to be crafted. In this game, crafting is a side-bar unlike some of the "other successful mmorpg" that allow for crafting to be more than just a hobby. That's just not the case in W101 and it's an unfair comparison.
The balance in this game must center almost exclusively on the questing aspect of game play. Whether side activities might seem, to you, to be unbalanced is irrelevant because questing and combat must be a priority. Those are what made this game popular to start with. and should remain the primary activity. Added activities are great! I love Fishing and Crafting and Gardening, but none of those carry the same weight as following the main story line. They are there as aids to be used if you want but not necessary.
So I say again, no one "deserves" anything until they fulfill the requirements.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
TucsonWizard on Nov 17, 2015 wrote:
I'm not wrong because the "road block" does not make it impossible to finish the game. And you haven't done the "necessary work" because that involves reaching the correct level and access to the correct land. The game can be completed without ever crafting a thing. And that includes spells. The Loremaster spells are there to get - for anyone who wants to invest the time. Better gear is available through drops - for anyone who wants to invest the time. Nothing ever has to be crafted. In this game, crafting is a side-bar unlike some of the "other successful mmorpg" that allow for crafting to be more than just a hobby. That's just not the case in W101 and it's an unfair comparison.
The balance in this game must center almost exclusively on the questing aspect of game play. Whether side activities might seem, to you, to be unbalanced is irrelevant because questing and combat must be a priority. Those are what made this game popular to start with. and should remain the primary activity. Added activities are great! I love Fishing and Crafting and Gardening, but none of those carry the same weight as following the main story line. They are there as aids to be used if you want but not necessary.
So I say again, no one "deserves" anything until they fulfill the requirements.
You are indeed wrong, and missing the point of the thread. This is about an inherent flaw to crafting, being tied to pve progression. This has nothing to do with "finishing the game". This is only about crafting. As for your last statement regarding "deserves", they have fulfilled the requirements, and deserve therewards, but there is a problem called a road-block in the way. A road-block is NOT a requirement, it is a mistake, poor game mechanics, etc. Most of your point though is about the exciting and fun things of pve, which have nothing to do with this thread. Just remember, a requirement, and a road-block are not the same.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Intrepidatius on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
You are indeed wrong, and missing the point of the thread. This is about an inherent flaw to crafting, being tied to pve progression. This has nothing to do with "finishing the game". This is only about crafting. As for your last statement regarding "deserves", they have fulfilled the requirements, and deserve therewards, but there is a problem called a road-block in the way. A road-block is NOT a requirement, it is a mistake, poor game mechanics, etc. Most of your point though is about the exciting and fun things of pve, which have nothing to do with this thread. Just remember, a requirement, and a road-block are not the same.
I don't see it as an inherent flaw, I see it for what it is which is part of the normal leveling progression. You are correct... a requirement and a roadblock are not the same thing... and that's my point precisely. Thank you for helping me illustrate it. In this particular case, Legendary Crafter status is required in order to craft the spells. The normal game mechanic dictates that in order to get this title one must complete the quest in Zafaria. This is a requirement, not a roadblock. A roadblock would mean that there was absolutely no other way to achieve the desired result, in this case a crafted spell, and that you are doomed to trudge along without it until you get the needed crafting level. But wait... that's not the case! You can get the spell via a drop, or you can use a TC, or you can continue to quest without it and, I'd wager to say, be just as successful in doing so. I see a lot of wizards with Legendary crafting level, in fact ALL of them... that have surmounted this (by your definition) roadblock and completed the necessary steps to advance. I see no reason to change anything now.
To lessen the requirements at this stage of the game would be a disservice to those that have fulfilled them already. As I said before, none of this is necessary to play the game... PvE -or- PvP. Use the tools that are available to you. You have to understand that some things in this game are not easy to come by for a reason!

Explorer
Jul 20, 2014
63
TucsonWizard on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
I don't see it as an inherent flaw, I see it for what it is which is part of the normal leveling progression. You are correct... a requirement and a roadblock are not the same thing... and that's my point precisely. Thank you for helping me illustrate it. In this particular case, Legendary Crafter status is required in order to craft the spells. The normal game mechanic dictates that in order to get this title one must complete the quest in Zafaria. This is a requirement, not a roadblock. A roadblock would mean that there was absolutely no other way to achieve the desired result, in this case a crafted spell, and that you are doomed to trudge along without it until you get the needed crafting level. But wait... that's not the case! You can get the spell via a drop, or you can use a TC, or you can continue to quest without it and, I'd wager to say, be just as successful in doing so. I see a lot of wizards with Legendary crafting level, in fact ALL of them... that have surmounted this (by your definition) roadblock and completed the necessary steps to advance. I see no reason to change anything now.
To lessen the requirements at this stage of the game would be a disservice to those that have fulfilled them already. As I said before, none of this is necessary to play the game... PvE -or- PvP. Use the tools that are available to you. You have to understand that some things in this game are not easy to come by for a reason!
I don't craft, and so I don't care either way, but having worked for the government and contracting with N.A.S.A. more years than I care to count, I can shed a little light on this matter. A "requirement" is something that is clearly defined/written, while a "road-block" is simply something that prevents access, and is not defined. So, if the written clearly says you have to be a certain level, meet certain pve criteria, etc. then it is indeed a requirement. If it does not specifically address the criteria that must be met, then it is indeed a road-block, and should be overturned. So the crux of this is does the written criteria mention specifically that a crafter has to complete pve level requirements, and certain other criteria to have access to completing Legendary Artisan? I did an exhaustive search of crafting, and my result was a no. I could find no mention of "level 55 and access to Zafaria" in relations to the crafting quest. So based on this, Intrepid is correct in his argument that you are attempting to dispute. I may have missed something though, which would prove you correct. My personal opinion sides with him however. Crafting should not be tied down with pve. You are essentially forcing paying customers to compete in areas that they don't wish to. There is no reason to tie the two activities together. That is the true disservice to everyone. If problems such as these continue unabated, this game will fail because the customers will go elsewhere.

Geographer
Dec 14, 2009
916
Mental Void on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
I don't craft, and so I don't care either way, but having worked for the government and contracting with N.A.S.A. more years than I care to count, I can shed a little light on this matter. A "requirement" is something that is clearly defined/written, while a "road-block" is simply something that prevents access, and is not defined. So, if the written clearly says you have to be a certain level, meet certain pve criteria, etc. then it is indeed a requirement. If it does not specifically address the criteria that must be met, then it is indeed a road-block, and should be overturned. So the crux of this is does the written criteria mention specifically that a crafter has to complete pve level requirements, and certain other criteria to have access to completing Legendary Artisan? I did an exhaustive search of crafting, and my result was a no. I could find no mention of "level 55 and access to Zafaria" in relations to the crafting quest. So based on this, Intrepid is correct in his argument that you are attempting to dispute. I may have missed something though, which would prove you correct. My personal opinion sides with him however. Crafting should not be tied down with pve. You are essentially forcing paying customers to compete in areas that they don't wish to. There is no reason to tie the two activities together. That is the true disservice to everyone. If problems such as these continue unabated, this game will fail because the customers will go elsewhere.
Well said. I cannot articulate points as beautifully as you do. I wish more people understood game mechanics, and what is healthy for games vs. what is not.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Mental Void on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
I don't craft, and so I don't care either way, but having worked for the government and contracting with N.A.S.A. more years than I care to count, I can shed a little light on this matter. A "requirement" is something that is clearly defined/written, while a "road-block" is simply something that prevents access, and is not defined. So, if the written clearly says you have to be a certain level, meet certain pve criteria, etc. then it is indeed a requirement. If it does not specifically address the criteria that must be met, then it is indeed a road-block, and should be overturned. So the crux of this is does the written criteria mention specifically that a crafter has to complete pve level requirements, and certain other criteria to have access to completing Legendary Artisan? I did an exhaustive search of crafting, and my result was a no. I could find no mention of "level 55 and access to Zafaria" in relations to the crafting quest. So based on this, Intrepid is correct in his argument that you are attempting to dispute. I may have missed something though, which would prove you correct. My personal opinion sides with him however. Crafting should not be tied down with pve. You are essentially forcing paying customers to compete in areas that they don't wish to. There is no reason to tie the two activities together. That is the true disservice to everyone. If problems such as these continue unabated, this game will fail because the customers will go elsewhere.
I appreciate the amount of research you did on this subject. The reason you don't find specific mention of "level 55" and "access to Zafaria" is because those are circumstantial instances within the broad framework of what we're referring to as "requirements". The giver of the Legendary crafting quest resides in Zafaria hence the need to be able to legitimately speak with him. And I emphasize legitimately because it is possible to reach Zafaria through the "back door" by porting to a friend who has access. Under these circumstances however you will not be able to speak with the NPC because you haven't advanced enough in the story line. Which in a round-a-bout way also speaks to the point of "level 55" and "access to Zafaria". To get to Zafaria legitimately you have to follow the story line, and in doing so you're going to level up. Again, circumstantial but all within the framework of the "requirements".
Look, to all who have responded on this thread... I am not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, I am simply using this forum to present my opinion of the OP's initial statement. I don't believe anything needs to be "fixed". There are areas which could use a bit of tweaking but to completely overhaul the system, which is what he is suggesting would require, is completely unnecessary. Unfortunately from the OP's position, in the situation presented, crafting is tied to PvE. I don't happen to see that as a major flaw in the system... any more than having to achieve a certain level in PvP to be able to train the Conviction spell. I would really like that spell but I don't PvP so I will never be able to train it. But I'm not going to ask for a total revamp of the system because I can't have what I want the easy way. I garden and I have stacks of Conviction TCs through that method. There's a workaround for all of these issues if people would only apply themselves.

Explorer
Jul 20, 2014
63
TucsonWizard on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
I appreciate the amount of research you did on this subject. The reason you don't find specific mention of "level 55" and "access to Zafaria" is because those are circumstantial instances within the broad framework of what we're referring to as "requirements". The giver of the Legendary crafting quest resides in Zafaria hence the need to be able to legitimately speak with him. And I emphasize legitimately because it is possible to reach Zafaria through the "back door" by porting to a friend who has access. Under these circumstances however you will not be able to speak with the NPC because you haven't advanced enough in the story line. Which in a round-a-bout way also speaks to the point of "level 55" and "access to Zafaria". To get to Zafaria legitimately you have to follow the story line, and in doing so you're going to level up. Again, circumstantial but all within the framework of the "requirements".
Look, to all who have responded on this thread... I am not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, I am simply using this forum to present my opinion of the OP's initial statement. I don't believe anything needs to be "fixed". There are areas which could use a bit of tweaking but to completely overhaul the system, which is what he is suggesting would require, is completely unnecessary. Unfortunately from the OP's position, in the situation presented, crafting is tied to PvE. I don't happen to see that as a major flaw in the system... any more than having to achieve a certain level in PvP to be able to train the Conviction spell. I would really like that spell but I don't PvP so I will never be able to train it. But I'm not going to ask for a total revamp of the system because I can't have what I want the easy way. I garden and I have stacks of Conviction TCs through that method. There's a workaround for all of these issues if people would only apply themselves.
I have no preference. I am simply pointing out that based on your argument, and the definition of requirement vs road block, you are wrong. You are entitled to your preference regardless if it helps, or hinders the game though. I suggest that your opinion is based on a simple preference of like or dislike, with no real knowledge of game mechanics, or experience. That is simply a opinion of mine based on what I have seen from your argument, and I could certainly be wrong. I don't have anywhere near Intrepids experience in these matters, but I have learned over the years, that if he argues a cause, it is because he is right, and speaks from direct knowledge/experience. I won't respond to this again, and I wish you well.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Mental Void on Nov 18, 2015 wrote:
I don't craft, and so I don't care either way, but having worked for the government and contracting with N.A.S.A. more years than I care to count, I can shed a little light on this matter. A "requirement" is something that is clearly defined/written, while a "road-block" is simply something that prevents access, and is not defined. So, if the written clearly says you have to be a certain level, meet certain pve criteria, etc. then it is indeed a requirement. If it does not specifically address the criteria that must be met, then it is indeed a road-block, and should be overturned. So the crux of this is does the written criteria mention specifically that a crafter has to complete pve level requirements, and certain other criteria to have access to completing Legendary Artisan? I did an exhaustive search of crafting, and my result was a no. I could find no mention of "level 55 and access to Zafaria" in relations to the crafting quest. So based on this, Intrepid is correct in his argument that you are attempting to dispute. I may have missed something though, which would prove you correct. My personal opinion sides with him however. Crafting should not be tied down with pve. You are essentially forcing paying customers to compete in areas that they don't wish to. There is no reason to tie the two activities together. That is the true disservice to everyone. If problems such as these continue unabated, this game will fail because the customers will go elsewhere.
You didn't look very hard. The prerequisite quests for Drum a Little Drum (the Legendary Artisan quest) are completion of The Seven Seas Show (Grandmaster Artisan) and To Market, To Market (in the opening story quest line in Zafaria). It's incidental that you must be level 55 to begin Zafaria. The fact that you must be 55 to begin a required prerequisite for the Crafting level makes it a requirement. It's no different than college course requirements. A math course might list Pre-Calc as a requirement but not list Algebra. You must complete Algebra to take the Pre-Calc course, therefore Algebra is also a defacto requirement even though it's not listed. It's understood.

Survivor
Aug 25, 2011
14
TPG Miserie on Nov 17, 2015 wrote:
I thought "putting the work" includes having access to Zafaria to get the quest for the legendary artisan badge which is required to craft crafted spells for that wizard
Well this is the reason I made this post, I think Kingsisle should separate content and make it so that crafting is separate from questing (by the way I have an exalted character and a fire in Zafaria so i have done that twice) this way whole new possibilities open for PvP as well as PvE

Survivor
Aug 25, 2011
14
TucsonWizard on Nov 19, 2015 wrote:
I appreciate the amount of research you did on this subject. The reason you don't find specific mention of "level 55" and "access to Zafaria" is because those are circumstantial instances within the broad framework of what we're referring to as "requirements". The giver of the Legendary crafting quest resides in Zafaria hence the need to be able to legitimately speak with him. And I emphasize legitimately because it is possible to reach Zafaria through the "back door" by porting to a friend who has access. Under these circumstances however you will not be able to speak with the NPC because you haven't advanced enough in the story line. Which in a round-a-bout way also speaks to the point of "level 55" and "access to Zafaria". To get to Zafaria legitimately you have to follow the story line, and in doing so you're going to level up. Again, circumstantial but all within the framework of the "requirements".
Look, to all who have responded on this thread... I am not trying to stir up a hornet's nest here, I am simply using this forum to present my opinion of the OP's initial statement. I don't believe anything needs to be "fixed". There are areas which could use a bit of tweaking but to completely overhaul the system, which is what he is suggesting would require, is completely unnecessary. Unfortunately from the OP's position, in the situation presented, crafting is tied to PvE. I don't happen to see that as a major flaw in the system... any more than having to achieve a certain level in PvP to be able to train the Conviction spell. I would really like that spell but I don't PvP so I will never be able to train it. But I'm not going to ask for a total revamp of the system because I can't have what I want the easy way. I garden and I have stacks of Conviction TCs through that method. There's a workaround for all of these issues if people would only apply themselves.
Well I would agree usually but If you do PvP you know that people with trained spells are over powered so right now the only people who have access to these spells are people with either a lot of money and a lot of time so a more casual player approach would be allowing people to craft at these low levels. Wizard has done things like this before where there is multiple ways to get to things and I think if crafting is opened up as one of these things then the game would be better.

Also I would like to thank the following for continuously posting on this thread. Everyone has had interesting points and I think that they should all be taken into account, I check this thread every 2-3 days or so but it seems some people check it more then I do which I think is neat, keep up the conversation!

:
TusconWizard
Intrepidatius

Survivor
Aug 25, 2011
14
seethe42 on Nov 17, 2015 wrote:
You haven't met the same requirements. You must be level 55 and completed Celestia. You say the spells aren't level restricted, but the crafting of them is. A child can pick up and use a sword, only a master swordsmith after years of training can MAKE one. You can't become a Lengendary Artisan by skipping all the training, and leveling up is part of that training. It's really that simple.
In your analogy with the sword smith I have realized something, when you say
A child can pick up and use a sword, only a master sword smith after years of training can MAKE one.
but there is something you don't realize, the children picking up the swords are the people that use treasure cards in pvp, but there are kids that DO have the spells learned in their spell books and those are the ones with money to buy packs or high level people to boost them through lore master. So I feel like if kingsisle made it so lower levels could craft in Zafaria it would create an alternate route in which wizards who don't have crowns or high level friends willing to do loremaster can learn their spells. this will balance out pvp, I got a loremaster spell on my level 10 and I know that some people doing PvP at my level don't have it within their power to gain them. Yes I know team up exists but usually when I did team up with loremaster rather then doing it with friends people left when they saw my level because they thought I would drag down the team. So you do have to have good friends to help you get those spells. I know there are wizards out there doing PvP wishing they could have a loremaster spell just like I do, and frankly I think they deserve a way to get their own, this way is crafting.