Okay...so as a Necromancer, the only boss I'll ever truly have trouble with in Wizard City early on is the one in Stormdrain Tower, Lord Nightshade, because of his strong resistance to Death spells. Usually the tactic in this scenario would be to use a Death Prism. The problem? In order to get the spell you need to see Mortis in Nightside. The problem with that is in order to get to Nightside you must defeat Lord Nightshade.
I'm sort of noticing a rather blatant catch 22 scenario here. I'll be surprised if this issue hasn't been mentioned before.
So, yeah. Please consider changing this to improve the game. It is almost literally impossible to defeat Lord Nightshade as a necromancer with the spells you have in deck, unless you grind your way all the way to level 16 first, which would involve going through the Crab Alley and Colossus Blvd.
Next of course I'll be trying treasure cards, so by the time I post this feedback, I'll probably be finished with him, but I'm sure this change would make things go much more smoothly for Necromancers in the future.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
my death was level 14 fighting him and I used some help but if I was soloing him I would use convert treasure cards and or life spells I have trained in
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
seethe42 on Apr 24, 2015 wrote:
It's one boss. Every school has a difficult one before getting prisms. You should check out the Bazaar for death prism TC, they're pretty common.
This is not actually accurate. No disrespect intended.
As a Life Wizard I saved Wizard City with no need of Prisms whatsoever- in fact, my first battle that required prisms was with Clanker in Marleybone, and again with the life mobs and the Jade Oni in Mooshu. All of which took place long after acquiring the Life Prism. So no problem.
Each class (to my knowledge) receives their prism spell from a quest that becomes available to them through their mentor at level 7- Death school is the only class that is required to complete all three streets, defeat the two major death bosses of Wizard City, Foul Gaze and Lord Nightshade- just to get a prism spell that by all means would have made the previous two bosses much more reasonable to fight.
So yes, Death Wizards must try much harder than the other classes to get their prism spell.
but yes, in the end, as I stated, I used treasure cards to seal the deal before this thread had even been approved by the moderators. So this is more in consideration for any Necromancers to be, not myself, as I have already succeeded.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
nick the wiz on Apr 24, 2015 wrote:
my death was level 14 fighting him and I used some help but if I was soloing him I would use convert treasure cards and or life spells I have trained in
I'm not big on having spells from two different schools- on my life wizard before I had nearly reached level 50 using life spells alone, with the intent of choosing sun & star & moon as my second and third and fourth schools.
Then I got to the Jade Oni and caved in to my weaknesses, getting every death spell from Dworgyn. I ended up scrapping him because I knew I would have to use a ridiculous amount of crowns to buy back the training points which I had spent- and I was already regretting not becoming a Necromancer before, as whenever I play MMO games I always play as a drainer (on World of Warcraft, I'd be a Zombie Warlock) so I ended up switching to the School of Death and starting over.
Edit: (I've put in a ticket to have my Life Wizard restored) So...yeah, as someone who primarily plays games solo (especially in the first part of the game where the difficulty level is low) trading cards ended up seizing the victory. Namely, Meteor Strike. Twice.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Mister Peanut on Apr 25, 2015 wrote:
This is not actually accurate. No disrespect intended.
As a Life Wizard I saved Wizard City with no need of Prisms whatsoever- in fact, my first battle that required prisms was with Clanker in Marleybone, and again with the life mobs and the Jade Oni in Mooshu. All of which took place long after acquiring the Life Prism. So no problem.
Each class (to my knowledge) receives their prism spell from a quest that becomes available to them through their mentor at level 7- Death school is the only class that is required to complete all three streets, defeat the two major death bosses of Wizard City, Foul Gaze and Lord Nightshade- just to get a prism spell that by all means would have made the previous two bosses much more reasonable to fight.
So yes, Death Wizards must try much harder than the other classes to get their prism spell.
but yes, in the end, as I stated, I used treasure cards to seal the deal before this thread had even been approved by the moderators. So this is more in consideration for any Necromancers to be, not myself, as I have already succeeded.
No one really NEEDS prisms in WC. The bosses have max resist of only 50% at that level, so it's not really like fighting the 80% resist of later bosses. Death has both it's trap and blade by level 7, unlike most other schools. With +40 and +30 Death has no real issue needing a prism for him.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
seethe42 on Apr 25, 2015 wrote:
No one really NEEDS prisms in WC. The bosses have max resist of only 50% at that level, so it's not really like fighting the 80% resist of later bosses. Death has both it's trap and blade by level 7, unlike most other schools. With +40 and +30 Death has no real issue needing a prism for him.
When up against Lord Nightshade? No. It was very much needed. I would continuously retry the battle only to find out that all my damage cards would run out. I would exhaust all my cards and he would still have half of his max health, and that's while using the novice death deck.
Thankfully I had some items from a higher level character to sell, to get gold, to buy some treasure cards. Otherwise I would have come back when I was level 16. It's not game breaking, sure, but it's less than ideal.
It's an idea for improvement, and a rather good one. I'm not really looking to debate whether or not you think it was needed. Many pardons.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
I was wondering the same thing when my death was still free 2 play, and couldn't get to Nightside at all.
Most players get someone to help out with Nightshade, or buy tc, or use off school spells.
IN theory though, a player should not have to rely on a workaround involving another player. Each school should be fairly self-sufficient through level 15, and not need to use another school's spells to do basic things such as attack.
The correct play here would be for Death to learn prism at level 7 or so, and maybe postpone blade or trap or curse or sac until after Lord Nightshade.
I loved having an early blade and trap, but Life and Ice are ok waiting for their blade until far into the future. Prism not so much. In fact, death is LESS likely to train outside of their school early on, so will not usually have life, ice, or balance damage spells to rely on against death bosses.
It's just a game design thing. Most players are capable of asking for help and/or finding a way around it. But it just feels awkward and uneven compared to other schools' tools.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
I think the primary reason we have to wait to get the prism spell is so that we learn how to handle things without them. Everyone (all schools included here) that's ever played W101 and has made it out of Wizard City has faced this issue and has obviously been successful. Think about what it's like for a Fire school wizard in Firecat Alley, or an Ice school wizard on Colossus Blvd. No disrespect intended but deal with it. There are TCs, and now there's the Team-Up kiosk, so in more ways than one newer wizards have a much easier go of it than ever before. There's a work-around for everything and sometimes it might mean repeating a boss several times before finally defeating them. In the case of the Death school, at level 10 you can get the Death Shield spell at no cost from the vendor in the Fairgrounds so load up on those and be prepared to just chip away ole' Nightshade. It might take some time but it's do-able.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
There are lessons that should be learned early in the game. There are more than enough tools to deal with Nightshade as it is - TC, team up, minions, gear and pet spells, or buffing through resist. There's no need to change the game.
I just did nightshade on a level 8 death in level 5 gear, using only trained spells, wand hits, and the one Seraph card every player gets as a quest reward on Unicorn way.
Target minion: wand, blade, trap, ghoul. Minion down, me almost full health.
Target boss: wand, blade, trap, ghoul, tc seraph, wand - finished with about 370 health.
Using pet or gear cards, or other TC including prism it could have been faster and easier, but it's certainly possible for anyone to solo by the time you get the quest.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
TucsonWizard on Apr 30, 2015 wrote:
I think the primary reason we have to wait to get the prism spell is so that we learn how to handle things without them. Everyone (all schools included here) that's ever played W101 and has made it out of Wizard City has faced this issue and has obviously been successful. Think about what it's like for a Fire school wizard in Firecat Alley, or an Ice school wizard on Colossus Blvd. No disrespect intended but deal with it. There are TCs, and now there's the Team-Up kiosk, so in more ways than one newer wizards have a much easier go of it than ever before. There's a work-around for everything and sometimes it might mean repeating a boss several times before finally defeating them. In the case of the Death school, at level 10 you can get the Death Shield spell at no cost from the vendor in the Fairgrounds so load up on those and be prepared to just chip away ole' Nightshade. It might take some time but it's do-able.
Oh, I already stated several times that I had already succeeded in defeating him before the thread was even approved for moderation. Were you speaking to any future necromancers who might have the same problem and view this thread?
...because I agree. There are ways, and the improvements to the team up feature certainly help. I used the team up feature when fighting Malistaire the first time- brilliant it is, marvelous.
All the same, I stand by my idea for improvement- it would be a (slight) change that would make things (only slightly) better for the next necromancer to join the game.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Gemma Luna on Apr 30, 2015 wrote:
There are lessons that should be learned early in the game. There are more than enough tools to deal with Nightshade as it is - TC, team up, minions, gear and pet spells, or buffing through resist. There's no need to change the game.
I just did nightshade on a level 8 death in level 5 gear, using only trained spells, wand hits, and the one Seraph card every player gets as a quest reward on Unicorn way.
Target minion: wand, blade, trap, ghoul. Minion down, me almost full health.
Target boss: wand, blade, trap, ghoul, tc seraph, wand - finished with about 370 health.
Using pet or gear cards, or other TC including prism it could have been faster and easier, but it's certainly possible for anyone to solo by the time you get the quest.
Level 8? Impressive tactics- Yes, I too used tc to defeat it. I feel like things are turning into a broken record with all of us repeating ourselves though. No disrespect intended it's just that every reply so far has been:
"You can use treasure cards or team up etc." "I agree, but still, this would be a helpful improvement to the game"
This is a place where people post ideas for what they think could be changed or added to improve gameplay. While I agree there's no "need" that's not really what's being discussed here.
I'm just putting my idea out there- it's not a demand, or an expectation or anything critical in importance. Just my feedback.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Mister Peanut on Apr 30, 2015 wrote:
Oh, I already stated several times that I had already succeeded in defeating him before the thread was even approved for moderation. Were you speaking to any future necromancers who might have the same problem and view this thread?
...because I agree. There are ways, and the improvements to the team up feature certainly help. I used the team up feature when fighting Malistaire the first time- brilliant it is, marvelous.
All the same, I stand by my idea for improvement- it would be a (slight) change that would make things (only slightly) better for the next necromancer to join the game.
Again, no disrespect was intended and my comments weren't directed specifically towards you but to any and all new players, Death school or otherwise. Having to work for something makes ultimate success that much more rewarding and making a change like you suggest isn't necessarily an improvement. Making things easier early in the game can be a detriment in the long run. Working towards leveling up and gaining new abilities in doing so is one of the mainstays of the game. The learning curve is there for a reason and requires developing strategies to work with what you have. This is something that's useful in-game and provides a life lesson as well. W101 is, in its own way, an education game on many levels. Planning, strategy, problem-solving, social interaction... these are all things that are subtly reinforced throughout the game. I guess my argument is that what you suggest is a bit more than a slight improvement and IMO would be a disservice to anyone new to the game even though it might not seem like it.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
TucsonWizard on Apr 30, 2015 wrote:
Again, no disrespect was intended and my comments weren't directed specifically towards you but to any and all new players, Death school or otherwise. Having to work for something makes ultimate success that much more rewarding and making a change like you suggest isn't necessarily an improvement. Making things easier early in the game can be a detriment in the long run. Working towards leveling up and gaining new abilities in doing so is one of the mainstays of the game. The learning curve is there for a reason and requires developing strategies to work with what you have. This is something that's useful in-game and provides a life lesson as well. W101 is, in its own way, an education game on many levels. Planning, strategy, problem-solving, social interaction... these are all things that are subtly reinforced throughout the game. I guess my argument is that what you suggest is a bit more than a slight improvement and IMO would be a disservice to anyone new to the game even though it might not seem like it.
I see, I see, I thought that might be the case- it didn't seem as though you were speaking to me exclusively, so I just wanted to clarify as much.
Well, I'll tell you one thing I learned from this experience- Cherish your prisms, they're lifesavers against death mobs and bosses.
(Edit: or whichever school of mobs and bosses that applies to the wizard in question)
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Mister Peanut on Apr 30, 2015 wrote:
Level 8? Impressive tactics- Yes, I too used tc to defeat it. I feel like things are turning into a broken record with all of us repeating ourselves though. No disrespect intended it's just that every reply so far has been:
"You can use treasure cards or team up etc." "I agree, but still, this would be a helpful improvement to the game"
This is a place where people post ideas for what they think could be changed or added to improve gameplay. While I agree there's no "need" that's not really what's being discussed here.
I'm just putting my idea out there- it's not a demand, or an expectation or anything critical in importance. Just my feedback.
It's not a helpful improvement in my opinion. It's nerfing the game at the point where players really need this lesson. Players need to learn to use the tools available. These lessons come to all schools and Nightshade isn't even a particularly hard challenge for Death. Death has advantages in this battle that other schools don't. Having blade, trap, 80% shield and drain spells for free healing make Death the easiest solo school at this level. Giving the prism early doesn't teach students how to best use their abilities.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
seethe42 on Apr 30, 2015 wrote:
It's not a helpful improvement in my opinion. It's nerfing the game at the point where players really need this lesson. Players need to learn to use the tools available. These lessons come to all schools and Nightshade isn't even a particularly hard challenge for Death. Death has advantages in this battle that other schools don't. Having blade, trap, 80% shield and drain spells for free healing make Death the easiest solo school at this level. Giving the prism early doesn't teach students how to best use their abilities.
I respect your choice of words.
However, in this scenario, by granting the spell afterwards, opportunities to learn are lost not gained.
By granting the death prism in nightside, you deny Necromancers the opportunity to learn the value and practical application of prisms.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Mister Peanut on May 4, 2015 wrote:
I respect your choice of words.
However, in this scenario, by granting the spell afterwards, opportunities to learn are lost not gained.
By granting the death prism in nightside, you deny Necromancers the opportunity to learn the value and practical application of prisms.
By your same logic, denying blades and traps to other schools until higher levels denies them opportunity to learn. That's just not true. Every school learns different things at different levels. Death has the least need for a prism at low level because of it's early use of blades and traps coupled with it's draining ability. Ice doesn't get a blade until level 38, that's a much bigger disparity than Death waiting for level 12 for a prism. Storm is the biggest attack school, but it gets blades at lvl 12 and traps at 16. Death has both and higher powered ones by level 7. It's all part of game balance. Life and Myth don't get prisms until Nightside as well.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
seethe42 on May 4, 2015 wrote:
By your same logic, denying blades and traps to other schools until higher levels denies them opportunity to learn. That's just not true. Every school learns different things at different levels. Death has the least need for a prism at low level because of it's early use of blades and traps coupled with it's draining ability. Ice doesn't get a blade until level 38, that's a much bigger disparity than Death waiting for level 12 for a prism. Storm is the biggest attack school, but it gets blades at lvl 12 and traps at 16. Death has both and higher powered ones by level 7. It's all part of game balance. Life and Myth don't get prisms until Nightside as well.
Oh, indeed- I hadn't seen that, but yes, it seems so. Myth and life as well eh?
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Death is the easiest school to solo. Fighting one boss without prisms isn't a major hardship. Ice doesn't get a blade until 38. Life doesn't get an attack all until 58. You can handle Nightshade.
Re: Death Prism should not be acquired in Nightside.
Dakota Death on May 5, 2015 wrote:
Death is the easiest school to solo. Fighting one boss without prisms isn't a major hardship. Ice doesn't get a blade until 38. Life doesn't get an attack all until 58. You can handle Nightshade.
I did handle him- before the moderators even approved the thread.
(Is it normal for people to have to repeat themselves many times on forums?)
This is only a suggestion for improvement, though apparently many would see this as a mistake rather than an improvement.
