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Death class infection.

1
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
Well today I wanted to discuss the death class and a few changes that I believe need to be made. Let me start out by saying I do not pvp so my focus is on improving this school for pve.

1.The first glaring problem is that all our attacks that leave a after effect on the target is healing reduction. This is so completely useless 90% of the time since most of the mobs in game do not heal. Other schools get spells that can do a few different after effects. For example, stuns, accuracy debuff, damage reduction, blades, traps. We have a few other spells that would work nicely besides infection. For example Plague ,death trap, curse ect.

2.Doom and Gloom. Basically another infection based ability. This is the only school ability of this type that ive never used or seen used in play. There is one that is available if you are willing to buy card packs for the red ghost, but seriously every other class has an area of effect spell that is useful.

Im not looking for a complete revamp but I would like to see some of these spells that are primarily only good for pvp given some counter part spells that are good for pve as well

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
170calories on Apr 1, 2014 wrote:
Well today I wanted to discuss the death class and a few changes that I believe need to be made. Let me start out by saying I do not pvp so my focus is on improving this school for pve.

1.The first glaring problem is that all our attacks that leave a after effect on the target is healing reduction. This is so completely useless 90% of the time since most of the mobs in game do not heal. Other schools get spells that can do a few different after effects. For example, stuns, accuracy debuff, damage reduction, blades, traps. We have a few other spells that would work nicely besides infection. For example Plague ,death trap, curse ect.

2.Doom and Gloom. Basically another infection based ability. This is the only school ability of this type that ive never used or seen used in play. There is one that is available if you are willing to buy card packs for the red ghost, but seriously every other class has an area of effect spell that is useful.

Im not looking for a complete revamp but I would like to see some of these spells that are primarily only good for pvp given some counter part spells that are good for pve as well
1. I understand the frustration but heal reduction is kinda death's thing. Unfortunately, several of death's spells (or after effects) find the most use in PvP... but there are several cheating dungeons where this after effect is very useful. Its somewhat analogous to how Life's gnomes spell leaves dispels.

2. This spell, again, finds most of its use in PvP but it is useful in select areas and specific dungeons. By way of trying to make you feel a bit better: Life, Death, and Balance have global spells which do not increase damage. On the bright side, this spell used to be 3 pips and was reduced so it is at least useful while soloing because it can be used to effectively (especially with death power pip percentage) cancel out damage globals cast by monsters. The Life global is still 3 pips and the Balance is still 4.

There are several spells and after effects that are not terribly useful outside of specific areas for every school though many posts have been written about them before. Occasionally, KI will make changes. However, they have been quite clear that it is their preference to avoid that when possible. My suggestion would be to work out your specific ideas as to what you would like to see instead and why. Post that and see if you get any feedback. Perhaps you can gain some traction that way.

Survivor
Dec 27, 2010
10
Agreed. As a death wizard for so long, I also wanted changes a while back.
The doom and gloom is useless, to be honest. We also want to heal ourselves in pvp or questing, but that just makes it worse if you use that (I never do). We want a 25% increase like other schools, because we just think it's unfair tbh.

Archon
Feb 07, 2011
3175
170calories on Apr 1, 2014 wrote:
Well today I wanted to discuss the death class and a few changes that I believe need to be made. Let me start out by saying I do not pvp so my focus is on improving this school for pve.

1.The first glaring problem is that all our attacks that leave a after effect on the target is healing reduction. This is so completely useless 90% of the time since most of the mobs in game do not heal. Other schools get spells that can do a few different after effects. For example, stuns, accuracy debuff, damage reduction, blades, traps. We have a few other spells that would work nicely besides infection. For example Plague ,death trap, curse ect.

2.Doom and Gloom. Basically another infection based ability. This is the only school ability of this type that ive never used or seen used in play. There is one that is available if you are willing to buy card packs for the red ghost, but seriously every other class has an area of effect spell that is useful.

Im not looking for a complete revamp but I would like to see some of these spells that are primarily only good for pvp given some counter part spells that are good for pve as well
I second this~ my necromancer does not pvp and infection/doom are entirely useless in pve. And I agree with you that a (Virulent) Plague would be a great after-effect to replace those useless infections as well.

I'm sorry I don't have much more than my support to offer at this point, but I really hope that something is done about this.

-von
promethean x3


Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
170calories on Apr 1, 2014 wrote:
Well today I wanted to discuss the death class and a few changes that I believe need to be made. Let me start out by saying I do not pvp so my focus is on improving this school for pve.

1.The first glaring problem is that all our attacks that leave a after effect on the target is healing reduction. This is so completely useless 90% of the time since most of the mobs in game do not heal. Other schools get spells that can do a few different after effects. For example, stuns, accuracy debuff, damage reduction, blades, traps. We have a few other spells that would work nicely besides infection. For example Plague ,death trap, curse ect.

2.Doom and Gloom. Basically another infection based ability. This is the only school ability of this type that ive never used or seen used in play. There is one that is available if you are willing to buy card packs for the red ghost, but seriously every other class has an area of effect spell that is useful.

Im not looking for a complete revamp but I would like to see some of these spells that are primarily only good for pvp given some counter part spells that are good for pve as well
I couldn't agree more. I think death SERIOUSLY lacks in the after effect department and have stated so numerous times. The healing effects cater towards PvP. The ONLY death spell after effects cater towards PvE is King Artorus. I could state that Efreet should NOT have bad juju but Dr Von's should, or Avenging Fossil should have a Virulent Plague/Curse. For PvE, Infection effects are 98% USELESS because that's about how many monsters actually heal themselves (or others on their team). I say, replace all infection effects with one of death's other effect spells. Either that or give death school a small bump in damage. now I KNOW people will complain about the damage bump, and I get it, but they shouldnt be ignored for after effects and if they are going to keep getting those USELESS after effects, I would rather have a bump in power and no effects than keep things where they are. I dont mean they need a HUGE bump, but something to offset the fact that they have no useful effects.

I've also pointed out that KI could start revamping the spells (in general) and have them be different for PvE vs PvP. This would further balance the game by giving PvE people something extra to use against monsters without unbalancing PvP, and the same on the flipside. it's time for the Devs to stop thinking so "one fix for all" and continue their creativity they showed when creating the new minions. That just proves that they could revamp existing spells and make them follow what I suggest above.

is this the ONLY fix, no, but it's the one that, to me, seems the most balanced and allows for different outcomes using the same spell

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
gtarhannon on Apr 1, 2014 wrote:
1. I understand the frustration but heal reduction is kinda death's thing. Unfortunately, several of death's spells (or after effects) find the most use in PvP... but there are several cheating dungeons where this after effect is very useful. Its somewhat analogous to how Life's gnomes spell leaves dispels.

2. This spell, again, finds most of its use in PvP but it is useful in select areas and specific dungeons. By way of trying to make you feel a bit better: Life, Death, and Balance have global spells which do not increase damage. On the bright side, this spell used to be 3 pips and was reduced so it is at least useful while soloing because it can be used to effectively (especially with death power pip percentage) cancel out damage globals cast by monsters. The Life global is still 3 pips and the Balance is still 4.

There are several spells and after effects that are not terribly useful outside of specific areas for every school though many posts have been written about them before. Occasionally, KI will make changes. However, they have been quite clear that it is their preference to avoid that when possible. My suggestion would be to work out your specific ideas as to what you would like to see instead and why. Post that and see if you get any feedback. Perhaps you can gain some traction that way.
good advice thanks

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
gtarhannon on Apr 1, 2014 wrote:
1. I understand the frustration but heal reduction is kinda death's thing. Unfortunately, several of death's spells (or after effects) find the most use in PvP... but there are several cheating dungeons where this after effect is very useful. Its somewhat analogous to how Life's gnomes spell leaves dispels.

2. This spell, again, finds most of its use in PvP but it is useful in select areas and specific dungeons. By way of trying to make you feel a bit better: Life, Death, and Balance have global spells which do not increase damage. On the bright side, this spell used to be 3 pips and was reduced so it is at least useful while soloing because it can be used to effectively (especially with death power pip percentage) cancel out damage globals cast by monsters. The Life global is still 3 pips and the Balance is still 4.

There are several spells and after effects that are not terribly useful outside of specific areas for every school though many posts have been written about them before. Occasionally, KI will make changes. However, they have been quite clear that it is their preference to avoid that when possible. My suggestion would be to work out your specific ideas as to what you would like to see instead and why. Post that and see if you get any feedback. Perhaps you can gain some traction that way.
I just thought of more to say lol.

1. Why does healing reduction need to be deaths thing. They also have damage reduction as well, and at least that would be useful. I mean its pretty clear people do not use or care for the healing reduction aspect of the class, so why beat a dead horse by make more new spells with the same unused ability.

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
dayerider on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
I couldn't agree more. I think death SERIOUSLY lacks in the after effect department and have stated so numerous times. The healing effects cater towards PvP. The ONLY death spell after effects cater towards PvE is King Artorus. I could state that Efreet should NOT have bad juju but Dr Von's should, or Avenging Fossil should have a Virulent Plague/Curse. For PvE, Infection effects are 98% USELESS because that's about how many monsters actually heal themselves (or others on their team). I say, replace all infection effects with one of death's other effect spells. Either that or give death school a small bump in damage. now I KNOW people will complain about the damage bump, and I get it, but they shouldnt be ignored for after effects and if they are going to keep getting those USELESS after effects, I would rather have a bump in power and no effects than keep things where they are. I dont mean they need a HUGE bump, but something to offset the fact that they have no useful effects.

I've also pointed out that KI could start revamping the spells (in general) and have them be different for PvE vs PvP. This would further balance the game by giving PvE people something extra to use against monsters without unbalancing PvP, and the same on the flipside. it's time for the Devs to stop thinking so "one fix for all" and continue their creativity they showed when creating the new minions. That just proves that they could revamp existing spells and make them follow what I suggest above.

is this the ONLY fix, no, but it's the one that, to me, seems the most balanced and allows for different outcomes using the same spell
These are some good ideas, and I hope that KI looks at them seriously.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
170calories on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
I just thought of more to say lol.

1. Why does healing reduction need to be deaths thing. They also have damage reduction as well, and at least that would be useful. I mean its pretty clear people do not use or care for the healing reduction aspect of the class, so why beat a dead horse by make more new spells with the same unused ability.
Because death relies on drains, every other school must rely on healing. Under a Doom & Gloom, death isn't really affected because his drain spells work just fine. Infection also doesn't affect death's drain. It's really not an unused ability. You just don't use it, that doesn't mean others don't.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
170calories on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
I just thought of more to say lol.

1. Why does healing reduction need to be deaths thing. They also have damage reduction as well, and at least that would be useful. I mean its pretty clear people do not use or care for the healing reduction aspect of the class, so why beat a dead horse by make more new spells with the same unused ability.
You make a good point. The primary reason (in my opinion) is because it is the polar opposite of life. As such, doom and gloom (and its ilk) reduce life's ability to heal while simultaneously leaving health stealing spells like vampire unaffected. On my death, I do use that aspect of the school in specialized situations (and no, I don't really PvP anymore), specifically some cheating dungeons and quite a few of the higher level life bosses that seem quite fond of regenerate. However, it is certainly not my favorite aspect fo the school and should it leave things like a weakness or some such behind I certainly wouldn't mind.

With spells like plague, virulent plague, and bad juju already in the arsenal it certainly isn't without precedent. It would certainly make more sense to me than the -90% weakness left by efreet (explain to me again why that makes sense for a fire spell?). I just think that after years of watching KI and these boards, you'll really need a good rationale and suggestions if you want a shot at getting it changed. I, for instance, have vehemently argued against taunt on the ice spell Snow Angel since it debuted in the Celestia test realm. Though taunt is "ice's thing", it makes zero practical sense for an ice mage for a number of reasons I don't need to get into here. I mention it simply to illustrate that in hind sight, if I had more carefully crafted reasonable suggestions at the time I may have gotten more traction in getting a change.

I'm looking forward to hear what you come up with. I'd certainly be happy to kick ideas back and forth with you.

Survivor
Sep 01, 2010
1
well in pvp most of the time the reason i lose is because i barley miss killing them and they critical heal so i think this is a good thing in pvp to have after a spell.


James Deatheartlvl.95 Death
James Dragonshadelvl.81 Balance (warlord)

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
seethe42 on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
Because death relies on drains, every other school must rely on healing. Under a Doom & Gloom, death isn't really affected because his drain spells work just fine. Infection also doesn't affect death's drain. It's really not an unused ability. You just don't use it, that doesn't mean others don't.
Seethe I understand that the school drains but I would like to discuss for a moment the real value of the ability.
First off Doom and Gloom reduces healing effect of your teammates, which in itself makes the card too painful to play in almost all situations.
Second is im level 83 on my death character and I can only think of one fight that actually consumes my infection after effect and that is lore master. In all my fights that after effect just spins merrily around the mob until he dies and it is unused.
Third I want to address your comment that because " I dont use it others do". Ok I have not said it needs to be removed or deleted in anyway, what im asking for is having future spells with after effects more suited for pve. I also said I would like to see an alternative to doom and gloom that does not bring hate from group members.

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
James Bond on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
well in pvp most of the time the reason i lose is because i barley miss killing them and they critical heal so i think this is a good thing in pvp to have after a spell.


James Deatheartlvl.95 Death
James Dragonshadelvl.81 Balance (warlord)
James. I agree that the spell can have real value in PVP and for that reason I dont want the ability removed from the game. What I would like to see is a mechanic that meshes better with the pve environment.

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
gtarhannon on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
You make a good point. The primary reason (in my opinion) is because it is the polar opposite of life. As such, doom and gloom (and its ilk) reduce life's ability to heal while simultaneously leaving health stealing spells like vampire unaffected. On my death, I do use that aspect of the school in specialized situations (and no, I don't really PvP anymore), specifically some cheating dungeons and quite a few of the higher level life bosses that seem quite fond of regenerate. However, it is certainly not my favorite aspect fo the school and should it leave things like a weakness or some such behind I certainly wouldn't mind.

With spells like plague, virulent plague, and bad juju already in the arsenal it certainly isn't without precedent. It would certainly make more sense to me than the -90% weakness left by efreet (explain to me again why that makes sense for a fire spell?). I just think that after years of watching KI and these boards, you'll really need a good rationale and suggestions if you want a shot at getting it changed. I, for instance, have vehemently argued against taunt on the ice spell Snow Angel since it debuted in the Celestia test realm. Though taunt is "ice's thing", it makes zero practical sense for an ice mage for a number of reasons I don't need to get into here. I mention it simply to illustrate that in hind sight, if I had more carefully crafted reasonable suggestions at the time I may have gotten more traction in getting a change.

I'm looking forward to hear what you come up with. I'd certainly be happy to kick ideas back and forth with you.
I think the glaring problem with the spell is it negatively effects teams to a point that it actually puts your group in jeopardy using it. To me that just isnt a good mechanic.

Ok so for some ideas.
1. For after effects you could have a trap that is put on the mob that increases your life received from your next drain by 25%...or something like that

2. Ideas for Doom and Gloom replacement could go like this.
Have the area of effect spell give the entire group healing equal to 10% of the health you received from your drains. For example I have this fictional spell out and I cast scarecrow and I get back 1000 health, then everyone in my party would receive 100 health. To keep this from being overpowered they could adjust this number up or down.

Next idea would be to have the AOE add 20% to all drained life received.

Next could be when ever the opponent heals you receive 10% of their healing.

Squire
Jan 21, 2010
571
We necromancers can't get more damage we have too much accuracy and power pip percentage. I had 100% Death accuracy and power pip chance at level 60. Now with the Sidhe staff I simply don't fizzle. If we get more damage over time after effects we start to step on fire's territory.

While I never liked getting infection or similar spells as my class spell for that level, it is the only class specific no other school will ever use. I mean look at life, balance has a heal, death has a heal, fire has one, even storm has a healing spell now. Storm, of all schools, has a healing spell!

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
I have a question for all those who think Doom and Gloom is a valuable spell in PvE:

Name me 5 fights and locations, besides Loremaster, who have healing monsters who heal regularly without cheating. If we include cheating, can you name me 10?

In PvE, monsters just dont heal and that's a fact. I could understand the worth of the spell if more monsters healed, but they dont (at the moment). The real issue is that Death has become a heal-prevention school and for those who mainly PvE, it's a slap in the face. The spell......... is........ 98%....... worthless for PvEers. Death isnt the ONLY school to have worthless spells, but this thread is about D&G.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
dayerider on Apr 3, 2014 wrote:
I have a question for all those who think Doom and Gloom is a valuable spell in PvE:

Name me 5 fights and locations, besides Loremaster, who have healing monsters who heal regularly without cheating. If we include cheating, can you name me 10?

In PvE, monsters just dont heal and that's a fact. I could understand the worth of the spell if more monsters healed, but they dont (at the moment). The real issue is that Death has become a heal-prevention school and for those who mainly PvE, it's a slap in the face. The spell......... is........ 98%....... worthless for PvEers. Death isnt the ONLY school to have worthless spells, but this thread is about D&G.
The game isn't only PvE, some spells just don't work in many situations. I can think of a lot of cheating bosses that heal actually. I'd like to ask you a better question. Can you name ONE PvE situation that Balance's Powerplay is useful? Every school has spells that are only useful in a very small number of situations.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
seethe42 on Apr 3, 2014 wrote:
The game isn't only PvE, some spells just don't work in many situations. I can think of a lot of cheating bosses that heal actually. I'd like to ask you a better question. Can you name ONE PvE situation that Balance's Powerplay is useful? Every school has spells that are only useful in a very small number of situations.
No, it's not only PvE, nor do I think that it is. This is why i've been suggesting that spells should act differently in PvE and PvP. Doom and Gloom could have been a health debuffer in PvP and a damage booster in PvE. But no, spells are all or nothing items. The problem is, with the invent of the L75 minions, that is no longer true. Powerplay is designed to help with powerpip percentage, nothing more. As for cheating bosses, how many of them use a heal when NOT cheating?

The BIG problem is, there is NO balance of spells between PvP and PvE. What works for PvE does NOT work for PvP, yet KI keeps trying to make that happen. once again i will mention that I feel that from now on, all spells should have 2 sides to them, PvE effects and Pvp effects. This way, the spells can be catered to BOTH sides without the other side complaining about them needing to be nerfed, and if they Do need to be changed, they only need to change the one side that is being affected by the bad programming

Geographer
Apr 29, 2012
861
dayerider on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
No, it's not only PvE, nor do I think that it is. This is why i've been suggesting that spells should act differently in PvE and PvP. Doom and Gloom could have been a health debuffer in PvP and a damage booster in PvE. But no, spells are all or nothing items. The problem is, with the invent of the L75 minions, that is no longer true. Powerplay is designed to help with powerpip percentage, nothing more. As for cheating bosses, how many of them use a heal when NOT cheating?

The BIG problem is, there is NO balance of spells between PvP and PvE. What works for PvE does NOT work for PvP, yet KI keeps trying to make that happen. once again i will mention that I feel that from now on, all spells should have 2 sides to them, PvE effects and Pvp effects. This way, the spells can be catered to BOTH sides without the other side complaining about them needing to be nerfed, and if they Do need to be changed, they only need to change the one side that is being affected by the bad programming
Maybe some spells (like Dr Vonn's Monster, Doom & Gloom & Sanctuary) should have 2 forms, in the deck screen, where one spell would be is split vertically, showing the original on one side, and the one made for the other type of combat (PvP & PvE) would be on the other. Spells with a heal debuff could be replaced with a damage debuff, Power Play, Doom & Gloom & Sanctuary become damage increases. Obviously things couldn't just flip completely different, like Lightning Bats healing in PvP, but side effects like charms & traps can change. They count as the same spell, but you can have different types in the same deck, for instance 2 healing Santuaries & 1 damaging one, but that would count as three of the same spell.

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
seethe42 on Apr 2, 2014 wrote:
Because death relies on drains, every other school must rely on healing. Under a Doom & Gloom, death isn't really affected because his drain spells work just fine. Infection also doesn't affect death's drain. It's really not an unused ability. You just don't use it, that doesn't mean others don't.
Seethe. My post is not about doom and gloom exclusively but rather KI's continuation of using the infection type of mechanic on everything. The weird thing is they have made some death spells that have different after effects like death ninja pigs, but they are not available to learn. There are a lot of options KI could go with this while still keeping it in the vein of healing manipulation and the effects would have more worth than the current effects
.

Survivor
Dec 04, 2009
42
Zebulous Newt on Apr 3, 2014 wrote:
We necromancers can't get more damage we have too much accuracy and power pip percentage. I had 100% Death accuracy and power pip chance at level 60. Now with the Sidhe staff I simply don't fizzle. If we get more damage over time after effects we start to step on fire's territory.

While I never liked getting infection or similar spells as my class spell for that level, it is the only class specific no other school will ever use. I mean look at life, balance has a heal, death has a heal, fire has one, even storm has a healing spell now. Storm, of all schools, has a healing spell!
I am not looking to increase my damage, but rather fix a unused mechanic. There are plenty of options available that would not increase damage.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
dayerider on Apr 3, 2014 wrote:
I have a question for all those who think Doom and Gloom is a valuable spell in PvE:

Name me 5 fights and locations, besides Loremaster, who have healing monsters who heal regularly without cheating. If we include cheating, can you name me 10?

In PvE, monsters just dont heal and that's a fact. I could understand the worth of the spell if more monsters healed, but they dont (at the moment). The real issue is that Death has become a heal-prevention school and for those who mainly PvE, it's a slap in the face. The spell......... is........ 98%....... worthless for PvEers. Death isnt the ONLY school to have worthless spells, but this thread is about D&G.
I knew I had battled quite a lot so I went to the wiki. The following creatures (some cheat and some don't) are known to use regenerate:

Venomous Quetzal in Azteca
Mika Skarka in Mooshu
Jungletooth in Celestia
Kravenly the Hunter in Khrysalis
Strykar Scofflaw in Wintertusk
Razele the TwoFaced in Khrysalis
Blackback Soldier in Zafaria
Sveipr in Wintertusk
Praetor Mako in Celestia
Gherruld in Zafaria

There are a lot more (meaning pages of search results) creatures known to cast significant healing spells such as regenerate if you'd like me to continue. Speaking from a solo perspective I had used doom and gloom in a lot of areas particularly in celestia and wintertusk. Is doom and gloom as useful as a damage global? Probably not. I don't honestly understand why Life, Death, and Balance have been given such situational global spells... but that doesn't mean its useless in PvE.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
Blaze Sandblade on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
Maybe some spells (like Dr Vonn's Monster, Doom & Gloom & Sanctuary) should have 2 forms, in the deck screen, where one spell would be is split vertically, showing the original on one side, and the one made for the other type of combat (PvP & PvE) would be on the other. Spells with a heal debuff could be replaced with a damage debuff, Power Play, Doom & Gloom & Sanctuary become damage increases. Obviously things couldn't just flip completely different, like Lightning Bats healing in PvP, but side effects like charms & traps can change. They count as the same spell, but you can have different types in the same deck, for instance 2 healing Santuaries & 1 damaging one, but that would count as three of the same spell.
I'm glad to see somebody else is on board with this. i hate the stagnation of the "it's always been done this way and always will be done this way" type of thinking most people show on this forum

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
170calories on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
Seethe. My post is not about doom and gloom exclusively but rather KI's continuation of using the infection type of mechanic on everything. The weird thing is they have made some death spells that have different after effects like death ninja pigs, but they are not available to learn. There are a lot of options KI could go with this while still keeping it in the vein of healing manipulation and the effects would have more worth than the current effects
.
hear hear!

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
gtarhannon on Apr 4, 2014 wrote:
I knew I had battled quite a lot so I went to the wiki. The following creatures (some cheat and some don't) are known to use regenerate:

Venomous Quetzal in Azteca
Mika Skarka in Mooshu
Jungletooth in Celestia
Kravenly the Hunter in Khrysalis
Strykar Scofflaw in Wintertusk
Razele the TwoFaced in Khrysalis
Blackback Soldier in Zafaria
Sveipr in Wintertusk
Praetor Mako in Celestia
Gherruld in Zafaria

There are a lot more (meaning pages of search results) creatures known to cast significant healing spells such as regenerate if you'd like me to continue. Speaking from a solo perspective I had used doom and gloom in a lot of areas particularly in celestia and wintertusk. Is doom and gloom as useful as a damage global? Probably not. I don't honestly understand why Life, Death, and Balance have been given such situational global spells... but that doesn't mean its useless in PvE.
thank you for providing an answer to my question. Now, while they are known to have the spell stocked in their deck, how often do they use them? See, that's the important thing. not just having them loaded, but actually USING is the key point here when talking about heal debuffing spells, and it's value to PvE. Just as an example, if 90% of monsters never healed, then heal debuffing would mostly be a PvP spell. if 90% of monsters DID heal, this would be a PvE spell. This is the point I've been trying to make; what ACTUALLY heals. Healing debuffing spells are fairly useless in PvE. having been into Khrysalis once, and into Azteca twice with my two wizards, I think it's safe to say that my experience is valid. MY experience is that most monsters, 95% of my fights and above, do NOT heal, thus making ALL healing debuffing effects for Death School worthless. This same thing was parroted when death's King Artorus spell came out. people were saying that for the pips to damage, KA was NOT worth it compared to Dr Von's and they voiced concern about yet another heal debuffing

1