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Wizards should have indivual natural attacks

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Apr 20, 2013
9
And not just from their wands.

Simply, in theory, I'm thinking that as a wizard, that you don't always need some sort of creature or force of nature to do your bidding. I know wizards have wand/melee attacks, but I'm thinking that there should be more of an expansion. Can't a wizard fend for himself with his own hands and magic, instead of just squatting behind someone else to do your work which you merely summoned?

Like, maybe a fire wizard can use an actual-ranked spell that causes them to vanish from their position as would a normal wand spell, appear in the center of the battle circle, coat himself with flames, and use his body to slam into the target or something of that ilk.
Or have a storm wizard raise a single finger while still remaining in his position and electrocute the opponent with a long-ranged beam of lightning, all the way across the battle ring. (The way Malistaire did in that cinematic commercial.)

Basically, think of the specialized natural attacks of the bosses in the Aquila dungeons; Zeus, Apollo, and Ares all leave their spots on the battle ring to deliver an very powerful attack in the same way and graphics that a normal-ranked attack would take on.
Does this seem like something of an idea?

Hero
Nov 14, 2010
760
been thinking this for awhile but it's too late now

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
critical blizzard on Nov 25, 2013 wrote:
been thinking this for awhile but it's too late now
no it isn't. They can add natural attacks any time they want to. Here's some spells that they could use too:

Balance: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Balance_4%29
Death: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Death_1%29
Fire: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Fire_3%29
Ice: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Ice_3%29
Life: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Life_6%29
Myth: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Myth_9%29
Storm: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Storm_4%29

These are already in the game so it should take much to tweak it. Sure they're all X-pip spells, but what's wrong with using those?

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
dayerider on Nov 25, 2013 wrote:
no it isn't. They can add natural attacks any time they want to. Here's some spells that they could use too:

Balance: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Balance_4%29
Death: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Death_1%29
Fire: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Fire_3%29
Ice: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Ice_3%29
Life: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Life_6%29
Myth: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Myth_9%29
Storm: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Storm_4%29

These are already in the game so it should take much to tweak it. Sure they're all X-pip spells, but what's wrong with using those?
Horrible idea. Those attacks are way overpowered to allow for all schools. Those spells are monster attacks and they are limited to using 1, 2, or 3 pips for them. Allowing players to use this with X pips and sun school boosts and blades/trap is pretty much equivalent to giving all levels of every school Judgement, except in their own school and far more powerful.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
seethe42 on Nov 25, 2013 wrote:
Horrible idea. Those attacks are way overpowered to allow for all schools. Those spells are monster attacks and they are limited to using 1, 2, or 3 pips for them. Allowing players to use this with X pips and sun school boosts and blades/trap is pretty much equivalent to giving all levels of every school Judgement, except in their own school and far more powerful.
These were just ideas, simply to illustrate a way it could be done. Nobody said they'd have to be compatible with sun spells. Judgement is 100/pip to a single target - only 2 spells would be better than it, a third one matches it, and the rest would be weaker. As for limiting them to 1-3 pip attacks, these spells don't, though other monster natural attacks do. Again, I was simply showing a way, with existing spells, how we could be given a natural attack spell.

I guess the big thing to overcome would be - what should constitute a natural attack. IF a natural attack were to be implemented, and it were to be too weak, people would be upset about the usability of it throughout the game. Other people have argued in the past that Wand attacks are the wizards' natural attack. I disagree with this because "natural attack" implies an attack that the wizard has the innate ability to perform naturally; without aid (of a wand, sword, or any other object). Any equipment used in a "natural attack" is no longer natural

Astrologist
Aug 20, 2011
1077
I think this is a good idea, and I like the suggestions that are showing up.

Historian
May 06, 2009
633
I had this very idea many years ago! What if Wizards became they're own spell with a cool animation based on their school. I would love that! I think each of the cards would have a hand illustration on it and then the element of the school going around it. So like a hand with fire around it for Fire, or hand with holding light for Balance, or winds with leaves and green energy for Life, so on and so forth. That would be cool.

They could be called "Master" cards, which would show a deep devotion and understanding of your school as well as directly play off the elements your school about. They could also be called the type ofI think that it's about time we get new 'X' Rank spells. Maybe these Master spells could be such spells? So maybe...

Stormy Diviner
Rank: X
Accuracy: 70%
Type: Damage, Global
-135 Damage and +5% to all Storm spells for 1-10 Pip

Flaming Pyromancer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 75%
Type: AoE, DoT, Charm
-70+60 Damage over 3 rds. -5% Accuracy for 1-10 Pip to all enemies

Thaumagure of Frost
Rank: X
Accuracy: 80%
Type: Damage, Ward
-110 Damage and -5% to next incoming damage to for 1-10 pips to all friends. Taunt

Harmonic Sorcerer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 85%
Type: AoE, DoT Charm
-70 Damage to all Enemies spells for 1-10 pip. +10% Damage and 2 Pips to all Friends

Congurer of Tales
Rank: X
Accuracy: 80%
Type: AoE, Manipulation
-70Damage and -1 Ward to all enemies for 1-10 pips. Stun

Thergist of Nature
Rank: X
Accuracy: 90%
Type: Heal, Ward
-100, +5% to all Heals and 60 Absorb to all friends for 1-10 pips.
or
-70Damage to all enemies and +5% to all spells for 1-10 pips.

Deathly Necromancer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 85%
Type: Steal, Charm
-Steal 80 Health and -5% Healing and Damage to all enemies for 1-10 pips

This is just an example at this point, not a really idea. I'm pretty sure I overpowered and underpowered a couple of schools. X Rank spells are hard to make in my opinion.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
dayerider on Nov 26, 2013 wrote:
These were just ideas, simply to illustrate a way it could be done. Nobody said they'd have to be compatible with sun spells. Judgement is 100/pip to a single target - only 2 spells would be better than it, a third one matches it, and the rest would be weaker. As for limiting them to 1-3 pip attacks, these spells don't, though other monster natural attacks do. Again, I was simply showing a way, with existing spells, how we could be given a natural attack spell.

I guess the big thing to overcome would be - what should constitute a natural attack. IF a natural attack were to be implemented, and it were to be too weak, people would be upset about the usability of it throughout the game. Other people have argued in the past that Wand attacks are the wizards' natural attack. I disagree with this because "natural attack" implies an attack that the wizard has the innate ability to perform naturally; without aid (of a wand, sword, or any other object). Any equipment used in a "natural attack" is no longer natural
Judgement is 100/pip correct. Tempest is only 80/pip yet still far more powerful. Why you ask? Because storm has bigger and more blades than balance only spells like Judgement can use. None would be weaker than Judgement because ALL schools outside of Balance have school blades/traps and spirit/elemental blades/traps ABOVE the universal blades and traps that balance can use. As for the limiting to 1-3 pips, that was my point, those spells listed ARE for monsters and ARE limited to 1-3 pips. Having them unlimited would make everyone's "natural" attack using those spells one of their most powerful available at every level. Storm's at full power would be more powerful than a Storm Owl and open to anyone without questing.

As for "natural" attack not being a wand. Fine if that's not "natural" then a "natural" attack also shouldn't get any boosts from gear or pets. It should be NATURAL, without aid of any equipement as you said. That would make it pretty useless. So you either have an overpowered attack for every school, or a mostly useless attack for every school.

Defender
Dec 25, 2012
129
Cunning Finnigan S... on Nov 26, 2013 wrote:
I had this very idea many years ago! What if Wizards became they're own spell with a cool animation based on their school. I would love that! I think each of the cards would have a hand illustration on it and then the element of the school going around it. So like a hand with fire around it for Fire, or hand with holding light for Balance, or winds with leaves and green energy for Life, so on and so forth. That would be cool.

They could be called "Master" cards, which would show a deep devotion and understanding of your school as well as directly play off the elements your school about. They could also be called the type ofI think that it's about time we get new 'X' Rank spells. Maybe these Master spells could be such spells? So maybe...

Stormy Diviner
Rank: X
Accuracy: 70%
Type: Damage, Global
-135 Damage and +5% to all Storm spells for 1-10 Pip

Flaming Pyromancer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 75%
Type: AoE, DoT, Charm
-70+60 Damage over 3 rds. -5% Accuracy for 1-10 Pip to all enemies

Thaumagure of Frost
Rank: X
Accuracy: 80%
Type: Damage, Ward
-110 Damage and -5% to next incoming damage to for 1-10 pips to all friends. Taunt

Harmonic Sorcerer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 85%
Type: AoE, DoT Charm
-70 Damage to all Enemies spells for 1-10 pip. +10% Damage and 2 Pips to all Friends

Congurer of Tales
Rank: X
Accuracy: 80%
Type: AoE, Manipulation
-70Damage and -1 Ward to all enemies for 1-10 pips. Stun

Thergist of Nature
Rank: X
Accuracy: 90%
Type: Heal, Ward
-100, +5% to all Heals and 60 Absorb to all friends for 1-10 pips.
or
-70Damage to all enemies and +5% to all spells for 1-10 pips.

Deathly Necromancer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 85%
Type: Steal, Charm
-Steal 80 Health and -5% Healing and Damage to all enemies for 1-10 pips

This is just an example at this point, not a really idea. I'm pretty sure I overpowered and underpowered a couple of schools. X Rank spells are hard to make in my opinion.
not to be rude but why does every time someone comes up with spells life gets the bad one
someone made spells storm does 3 thousand damage life does 8 hundred plus 100 overtime people have to be nicer to all schools and not show favortisum

Hero
Nov 14, 2010
760
dayerider on Nov 25, 2013 wrote:
no it isn't. They can add natural attacks any time they want to. Here's some spells that they could use too:

Balance: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Balance_4%29
Death: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Death_1%29
Fire: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Fire_3%29
Ice: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Ice_3%29
Life: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Life_6%29
Myth: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Myth_9%29
Storm: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Storm_4%29

These are already in the game so it should take much to tweak it. Sure they're all X-pip spells, but what's wrong with using those?
storm needs an x rank like that soon

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
Cunning Finnigan S... on Nov 26, 2013 wrote:
I had this very idea many years ago! What if Wizards became they're own spell with a cool animation based on their school. I would love that! I think each of the cards would have a hand illustration on it and then the element of the school going around it. So like a hand with fire around it for Fire, or hand with holding light for Balance, or winds with leaves and green energy for Life, so on and so forth. That would be cool.

They could be called "Master" cards, which would show a deep devotion and understanding of your school as well as directly play off the elements your school about. They could also be called the type ofI think that it's about time we get new 'X' Rank spells. Maybe these Master spells could be such spells? So maybe...

Stormy Diviner
Rank: X
Accuracy: 70%
Type: Damage, Global
-135 Damage and +5% to all Storm spells for 1-10 Pip

Flaming Pyromancer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 75%
Type: AoE, DoT, Charm
-70+60 Damage over 3 rds. -5% Accuracy for 1-10 Pip to all enemies

Thaumagure of Frost
Rank: X
Accuracy: 80%
Type: Damage, Ward
-110 Damage and -5% to next incoming damage to for 1-10 pips to all friends. Taunt

Harmonic Sorcerer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 85%
Type: AoE, DoT Charm
-70 Damage to all Enemies spells for 1-10 pip. +10% Damage and 2 Pips to all Friends

Congurer of Tales
Rank: X
Accuracy: 80%
Type: AoE, Manipulation
-70Damage and -1 Ward to all enemies for 1-10 pips. Stun

Thergist of Nature
Rank: X
Accuracy: 90%
Type: Heal, Ward
-100, +5% to all Heals and 60 Absorb to all friends for 1-10 pips.
or
-70Damage to all enemies and +5% to all spells for 1-10 pips.

Deathly Necromancer
Rank: X
Accuracy: 85%
Type: Steal, Charm
-Steal 80 Health and -5% Healing and Damage to all enemies for 1-10 pips

This is just an example at this point, not a really idea. I'm pretty sure I overpowered and underpowered a couple of schools. X Rank spells are hard to make in my opinion.
when I posted my ideas on how to fix Death's AoE and Xpip spells, it was mentioned that X-pip with after effects are way too strong because you could spam them from here to eternity. I have to agree with this. X-pip spells should be single function spells.

Champion
Dec 03, 2012
485
These seem a little overpowered. I'd stick with what we have.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
critical blizzard on Nov 27, 2013 wrote:
storm needs an x rank like that soon
as long as all schools get a new x-pip spell at the same time, Im fine with it. You'll also notice that each spell I chose follows the schools' attack strength and order. Thought you of all people would apprecite that

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
seethe42 on Nov 26, 2013 wrote:
Judgement is 100/pip correct. Tempest is only 80/pip yet still far more powerful. Why you ask? Because storm has bigger and more blades than balance only spells like Judgement can use. None would be weaker than Judgement because ALL schools outside of Balance have school blades/traps and spirit/elemental blades/traps ABOVE the universal blades and traps that balance can use. As for the limiting to 1-3 pips, that was my point, those spells listed ARE for monsters and ARE limited to 1-3 pips. Having them unlimited would make everyone's "natural" attack using those spells one of their most powerful available at every level. Storm's at full power would be more powerful than a Storm Owl and open to anyone without questing.

As for "natural" attack not being a wand. Fine if that's not "natural" then a "natural" attack also shouldn't get any boosts from gear or pets. It should be NATURAL, without aid of any equipement as you said. That would make it pretty useless. So you either have an overpowered attack for every school, or a mostly useless attack for every school.
I'm talking about the base for the spell not after boosting. tempest is even far more powerful because while it only does 80/pip vs Judgement's 100, only Tempest does it to ALL enemies. It turns out to be the strongest Xpip in the game.

The limiting of spells, no, the ones I listed are NOT 1-3 pip spells, they're full/true x-pip. Each school has other natural attack spells that are ranged rather than full x-pip spells. Ranged spells have their place, as do full x-pip.

I disagree, I think there could be boosts for a natural attack. Natural attacks are school based magic attacks, so while you dont need a "weapon" (wand, axe, pike, staff, guitar, etc) to cast it, it should still get boosts like any other spell. KI has stated that they don't want to break from the mold of how spells work already (stated in another post I read recently) and this would break from the norm.

Judgement has blades/traps it can use, Balanceblade, Bladestorm, and Hex come to mind. I think taking the approach that I'm trying to make Balance weak isn't a fair stance to make, because I'm not. I simply stated spells each school has to offer, and what could be done with them; nothing more. You're upset because Balance has no real balance blade spell that does any good boosting, and I agree, they don't have a single big boosting blade, but that's how the school is designed. That's just the way the school was made

Hero
Nov 14, 2010
760
dayerider on Nov 25, 2013 wrote:
no it isn't. They can add natural attacks any time they want to. Here's some spells that they could use too:

Balance: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Balance_4%29
Death: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Death_1%29
Fire: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Fire_3%29
Ice: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Ice_3%29
Life: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Life_6%29
Myth: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Myth_9%29
Storm: www.wizard101central.com/wiki/Spell:Natural_Attack_%28Storm_4%29

These are already in the game so it should take much to tweak it. Sure they're all X-pip spells, but what's wrong with using those?
also i was thinking we should mainly have stuff like natural attacks and meteor tempest type stuff and have creatures be the rare type of spell i thought he meant that too which would have made more sense kingsisle were not all conjurers!

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
dayerider on Nov 28, 2013 wrote:
I'm talking about the base for the spell not after boosting. tempest is even far more powerful because while it only does 80/pip vs Judgement's 100, only Tempest does it to ALL enemies. It turns out to be the strongest Xpip in the game.

The limiting of spells, no, the ones I listed are NOT 1-3 pip spells, they're full/true x-pip. Each school has other natural attack spells that are ranged rather than full x-pip spells. Ranged spells have their place, as do full x-pip.

I disagree, I think there could be boosts for a natural attack. Natural attacks are school based magic attacks, so while you dont need a "weapon" (wand, axe, pike, staff, guitar, etc) to cast it, it should still get boosts like any other spell. KI has stated that they don't want to break from the mold of how spells work already (stated in another post I read recently) and this would break from the norm.

Judgement has blades/traps it can use, Balanceblade, Bladestorm, and Hex come to mind. I think taking the approach that I'm trying to make Balance weak isn't a fair stance to make, because I'm not. I simply stated spells each school has to offer, and what could be done with them; nothing more. You're upset because Balance has no real balance blade spell that does any good boosting, and I agree, they don't have a single big boosting blade, but that's how the school is designed. That's just the way the school was made
I'm not upset at all about balance lack of blade, but giving every other school a more powerful version of judgement isn't exactly fair. Those spells listed ARE creature attack spells and they ARE limited to 1-3 pips. You can repeat that they aren't as much as you like but it still doesn't change the truth. They are creature natural attacks. Giving every school an additional x-pip attack is still a bad idea regardless. Getting everyone to use one spell so you can attack with whatever number of pips you have on hand takes away a LOT from the game. This would quickly become the dominant if not only attack spell ever used in pvp. Frankly I don't think us arguing over it matters, I'm pretty sure KI would never really consider adding it because it's just not good for gameplay.

Mastermind
Jun 01, 2009
304
o: I love this idea! I don't like how people are saying it would be over powered, since it could be any attack really. Having a natural attack would be great, though figuring out the damage and animation would be kinda confusing, but having some kind of natural attack would be awesome :)

-Jasmine Owltalon, level 92 myth
Believe, and try hard, and success will be yours

Defender
Jan 03, 2013
146
Sparkarm on Nov 24, 2013 wrote:
And not just from their wands.

Simply, in theory, I'm thinking that as a wizard, that you don't always need some sort of creature or force of nature to do your bidding. I know wizards have wand/melee attacks, but I'm thinking that there should be more of an expansion. Can't a wizard fend for himself with his own hands and magic, instead of just squatting behind someone else to do your work which you merely summoned?

Like, maybe a fire wizard can use an actual-ranked spell that causes them to vanish from their position as would a normal wand spell, appear in the center of the battle circle, coat himself with flames, and use his body to slam into the target or something of that ilk.
Or have a storm wizard raise a single finger while still remaining in his position and electrocute the opponent with a long-ranged beam of lightning, all the way across the battle ring. (The way Malistaire did in that cinematic commercial.)

Basically, think of the specialized natural attacks of the bosses in the Aquila dungeons; Zeus, Apollo, and Ares all leave their spots on the battle ring to deliver an very powerful attack in the same way and graphics that a normal-ranked attack would take on.
Does this seem like something of an idea?
Your basically seeing this as a pirate101 function. that's not going to happen. why? The enemies have the natural attacks while we have the wands. We cant have both, its one or the other.

Historian
May 06, 2009
633
wizard508million on Nov 27, 2013 wrote:
not to be rude but why does every time someone comes up with spells life gets the bad one
someone made spells storm does 3 thousand damage life does 8 hundred plus 100 overtime people have to be nicer to all schools and not show favortisum
I'm not trying to show favortism. I have none, especial towards Storm, which is not even my favorite school at all. When I make spells, I try to 1.) stay within the guide lines of a school and 2.) not make them overpower or stay within the general school. On the terms of the Life School, the school is about healing. To stay within that guide line, I created one spell that was healing, but the other was a damage/offensive themed spell, because I know Life is going through a mid-life crisis where they want to deal more damage. I'm sorry you don't appreciate that.

Keep in mind too, these are are X rank spells. But also keep in mind, I said I might have overpowered some spells because working with X's is tricky buisness. It's yet to happen where every school has an X rank spell that's exactly the same across the board. I have no ground to build off of. I'm not trying to make Storm the upt-most powerful thing out there or show it's my number one favorite school (not in a million years). I'm just trying my best to keep within the school's outlines.

Also, why does Storm and Life keep bumping heads? Why does Life keep comparing itself to Storm? They're on opposite sides of the spectrum! I don't understand why I keep hearing this, but the vandetta's gottta stop somewhere.

P.S.-When you say "people have to be nicer to all schools and not show favortism," I half get the feeling you want me to OP Life or something. While that may not be the case, if I were to give Life the most powerful spell in any ideas I did further, would you complain? If you have a better idea on how to utilize Life and keep the other schools on a good outline, then by all means, post your own ideas.

P.S.S- Storm with 3 thousand damage and Life with 900 Hundred max? Those are ridiculous odds.

Historian
May 06, 2009
633
dayerider on Nov 27, 2013 wrote:
when I posted my ideas on how to fix Death's AoE and Xpip spells, it was mentioned that X-pip with after effects are way too strong because you could spam them from here to eternity. I have to agree with this. X-pip spells should be single function spells.
Fair enough. Something I can consider for future X rank spells ideas. (Ugh, I'm getting a head-ache already from X rank spells. They're just so annoying to work with. No wonder only 3 schools get attack versions of them).