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Power Pip Improvement

AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Frost Wind on Jun 17, 2015 wrote:
Pips are fine just the way they are. It's a simple system and makes sense. It doesn't need to change. Now if we could just get some more of the shadow ones.
Perfect feedback. Now if we could only get more constructive comments like this.

I really do like the concept Kendra proposed - the "school" pip. IF there were to be change back from a pip then something like this makes perfect sense. Much more so than anything previously suggested. It would still require a code re-write by KI for something that is really unnecessary but IF a change were to be made I would be in favor of something like this.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 17, 2015 wrote:
Perfect feedback. Now if we could only get more constructive comments like this.

I really do like the concept Kendra proposed - the "school" pip. IF there were to be change back from a pip then something like this makes perfect sense. Much more so than anything previously suggested. It would still require a code re-write by KI for something that is really unnecessary but IF a change were to be made I would be in favor of something like this.
Right, because on a thread in a forum that is completely dedicated to discussing change, saying that things should stay the same and then directing attention to something off topic is totally constructive, and it's not something we already have an unhealthy amount of.

*sarcasm off*

but yeah, the school pip would definitely be a must.
Power pips can only be used with schools you have mastery over,
so half a power pip must also be only usable with a school you have mastery over. Constructive and on topic.

Defender
Aug 03, 2011
135
I don't take any opposition sides. There are many good reasons for each side. For now, they are balanced. I don't think anyone will win for next 6 months. I hope that maybe one day, peace can be regained between the sides, and we can all stop caring about these miscalculations...but that is not the present. That is the future, well, at least, I hope it is. Whether it's a pip or power pip, and odd number spells take advantage of you, we'll all be fine. It's not like you lose your character or information on W101. It's just battle. Oh, and one solution to this problem: 4-3=0+2=2. This represents if you had 2 power pips, and you lose them with a 3 pip spell, you can get a power pip after the spell, returning it back to its position. Or just simply use 4 pips, use a 3 pip spell, you're left with one pip. Next round, you get a pip, which makes 2 pips. Power pips count as 2, so getting one after losing 2 of them is a 50-50 chance.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
kendra ace on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
I totally agree with you my solution is to create a pip for your school. for example, i am a myth wizard, and say i have a power pip i cast blood bat (a basic 1 pip spell) now the game registers that i do not have a normal pip so it thinks, "i shall use the power pip." once the power pip is used, it would normally disappear entirely but my suggestion to Kingsisle is that the game uses one half of my pip and diverts the other to an outer ring, like shadow pips only it is called a myth pip and be saved until i cast another blood bat.
The school pip idea could work. No need for another ring really. They could just add a single pip slot at the beginning of the pip ring. Make that pip a different color/size, so we know it's a mastery pip. Like a small pip slot, it's either on or off. It could only be used for casting mastered school spells. There's no need for a ring because you cannot possibly have more than 1, because first time you cast an odd pip school/mastery spell with power pips you'd get 1. Next time you cast an odd pip school/mastery spell it would use that pip. This is the only idea I've seen that could work. It's an unneeded complication to the system, but it wouldn't really upset gameplay like the other proposals of "giving change".

Defender
Mar 28, 2011
154
Mister Peanut on Jun 18, 2015 wrote:
Right, because on a thread in a forum that is completely dedicated to discussing change, saying that things should stay the same and then directing attention to something off topic is totally constructive, and it's not something we already have an unhealthy amount of.

*sarcasm off*

but yeah, the school pip would definitely be a must.
Power pips can only be used with schools you have mastery over,
so half a power pip must also be only usable with a school you have mastery over. Constructive and on topic.
My opinion is that things should stay the same. That is no less valid "on a forum for discussing change" than saying they should change because you want them to. This debate is as old as the game. You are arguing for a new system that would require immense amounts of programming work, and re-educating players. The game has worked fine with the existing system, so I contend that there is no need to change it, and that such effort would be a waste of resources.

The power pip mechanic we have is simple, logical, and consistent.

Shadow pips are now the limiting element at high levels, not power pips, so since we are discussing improvements to the pip system that comment was germane.

Defender
Mar 28, 2011
154
TucsonWizard on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
It's not inarguably flawed because this string now contains four pages of arguments. Some lucid, some - not so much...
Here's my honest answer to your honest question:
In essence, what you're proposing is that the power pip system should just go away. No more power pips - period. No more school mastery - period. Instead of a row of power pips we should just have a longer row of normal pips. I'm sure you'll argue that this is not what you want, you just want some change back from your power pip. Getting one back when you're using one, dividing something that cannot be divided. But altering the current system to allow for that has more far reaching impact. That's basically what the system would be reduced to and that's a shame. You strip away all of the back-story that adds to the immersion of the game. The studying and the dedication that a student puts into learning their craft. Sure, depending on your point of view it doesn't harm the basic game-play but it removes a layer of depth that's part of what makes the game enjoyable to many. Having mastery in your chosen school demonstrates a proficiency that takes effort to achieve. And the entire game is all about achievement. The strategy involved in balancing the use of those pips and power pips may not seem like a big deal on the surface but when it's gone the game will be lessened because of it. Life would go on, the Sun would still rise in the morning but W101 would be just a little bit less challenging and enjoyable to play.

And this, in my opinion, is how "it would make things worse".
Very well said. I agree with that.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
Frost Wind on Jun 18, 2015 wrote:
My opinion is that things should stay the same. That is no less valid "on a forum for discussing change" than saying they should change because you want them to. This debate is as old as the game. You are arguing for a new system that would require immense amounts of programming work, and re-educating players. The game has worked fine with the existing system, so I contend that there is no need to change it, and that such effort would be a waste of resources.

The power pip mechanic we have is simple, logical, and consistent.

Shadow pips are now the limiting element at high levels, not power pips, so since we are discussing improvements to the pip system that comment was germane.
Never said your's was invalid, but I certainly don't find it constructive, especially in comparison to the "school pip" idea that was proposed.

A solution to a problem as opposed to simply
"Here's a problem, it will never work, give up."

In fact, even when viewed objectively,
saying the equivalent of-
"This is pointless, what we really should be focusing on is..."
is without question non-constructive, not helpful, and distracting.

No, this is not about pips- the topic of this thread is very specific.
Pips and odd number spells, and the perceived inefficiency.

Your post regarding shadow pips = Offtopic.
Not an opinion, but a factual statement.

Wanna talk about Shadow Pips, start a thread about Shadow Pips.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on Jun 18, 2015 wrote:
The school pip idea could work. No need for another ring really. They could just add a single pip slot at the beginning of the pip ring. Make that pip a different color/size, so we know it's a mastery pip. Like a small pip slot, it's either on or off. It could only be used for casting mastered school spells. There's no need for a ring because you cannot possibly have more than 1, because first time you cast an odd pip school/mastery spell with power pips you'd get 1. Next time you cast an odd pip school/mastery spell it would use that pip. This is the only idea I've seen that could work. It's an unneeded complication to the system, but it wouldn't really upset gameplay like the other proposals of "giving change".
Yup, it was a good idea.

It wouldn't upset gameplay and it wouldn't require a reeducation-
although, to be a reeducation, there would have had to be an initial education. Diego never covers this. As has been said.

Perfect solution I'd say.
So if you have a half power pip or "school pip"
and 2 power pips and you use a spell that costs three pips-
1 power pip and 1 half power pip/school pip would be consumed.

It would be 3-3 = 0.
Perfect.

Defender
Mar 28, 2011
154
Mister Peanut on Jun 21, 2015 wrote:
Never said your's was invalid, but I certainly don't find it constructive, especially in comparison to the "school pip" idea that was proposed.

A solution to a problem as opposed to simply
"Here's a problem, it will never work, give up."

In fact, even when viewed objectively,
saying the equivalent of-
"This is pointless, what we really should be focusing on is..."
is without question non-constructive, not helpful, and distracting.

No, this is not about pips- the topic of this thread is very specific.
Pips and odd number spells, and the perceived inefficiency.

Your post regarding shadow pips = Offtopic.
Not an opinion, but a factual statement.

Wanna talk about Shadow Pips, start a thread about Shadow Pips.
You don't get to control the direction of a thread simply because you start it. Topics go where participants take them.

There is no problem to solve. The existing power pip system is logical and works as it should.

Your proposal is based on a mental model of a yellow pip being two pips and the game making change. It shouldn't because that's not how power pips work. The perceived inefficiency is the product of incorrect understanding, not a flawed mechanic. It isn't money. There's no change due.

"School pips" or anything like it would add complication, and require a reevaluation of spell balances. That's a lot of disruption to 'fix' something that's worked fine for years.

Try to adjust your thinking, not the game.

Defender
Aug 03, 2011
135
Even calculations fail, if you look outside at the pips, 2 dots (Don't think of them as pips. Think of them as objects to a math problem. The math makes sense using outside info) minus 3 dots equals 0 or -1, but that is not possible. But calculations between "Pips" and "Spell Pips" (Pips required for a spell) will fail in odd-numbered situations.

Survivor
Jul 14, 2014
33
Frost Wind on Jun 23, 2015 wrote:
You don't get to control the direction of a thread simply because you start it. Topics go where participants take them.

There is no problem to solve. The existing power pip system is logical and works as it should.

Your proposal is based on a mental model of a yellow pip being two pips and the game making change. It shouldn't because that's not how power pips work. The perceived inefficiency is the product of incorrect understanding, not a flawed mechanic. It isn't money. There's no change due.

"School pips" or anything like it would add complication, and require a reevaluation of spell balances. That's a lot of disruption to 'fix' something that's worked fine for years.

Try to adjust your thinking, not the game.
i think that we should stay with the thread of power pips.
how can you not be bothered by using, say, a cyclops when you are a wizard with 2 power pips and not getting your pip back because its logical. because i think i lose some battles because of this flaw. and asking plenty of other people it has not worked fine for years.

Survivor
Feb 14, 2013
7
I think it should stay is it is because you only have a certant amount of space forpips and a normal pip would take up space too!

Survivor
Jul 14, 2014
33
beaustroms482 on Jul 27, 2015 wrote:
I think it should stay is it is because you only have a certant amount of space forpips and a normal pip would take up space too!
yes, but you shouldn't be opposed to the idea just because it takes up space, you dont like the pip, discard it

talon "honorable bronze archon" dragonmask lvl 34

Explorer
Jun 20, 2015
71
beaustroms482 on Jul 27, 2015 wrote:
I think it should stay is it is because you only have a certant amount of space forpips and a normal pip would take up space too!
I agree. Yes, it would be more comfortable to play by the laws of Math, but the way it is is more strategic. At least I get to use my brain a little more the current way. Plus, like said in the writing above mine, space for pips is limited (right now it's 7 pips\powerpips).
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