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Power Pip Improvement

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 9, 2015 wrote:
Using your Fire Dragon/Efreet example there are extenuating circumstances that make the decision more complicated than you indicate, and these decisions do have relevance in regards to TIME. First, the health of the 2 enemies... if they're at equal, full health, the Fire Dragon might be the right option. On the other hand, using an Efreet on one of the enemies in effect buys you a round against that one by virtue of the -90 weakness - and there's the chance that due to Efreet's bigger damage base you could take out that enemy altogether. Second, the enemies' pip counts. If they're at a low pip level the Dragon is probably the correct choice but again the same choices apply regarding the Efreet.
In the example of Orthrus/Medusa there are similar extenuating circumstances. If an enemy is shielded the Orthrus is the obvious choice. And in this scenario using Orthrus, a double-hit spell, does in one round what a one-hit spell will do in two, saving you TIME. So in this case using the power pip for an odd-pip spell is gaining you a round... and you want "change" back from that?
But back on topic... the pip. A pip is a container. One container. What's relevant is not the contents of the container but the container itself. The only variable is how efficiently the contents are used. In the case where someone with mastery is able to eke out that extra bit of use from that one pip, it is a bonus. A one-time deal with that one pip. Use it as you like but the point is you use it ALL, whether you take advantage of the bonus or not.
I think it would be great for a KI representative to weigh in on this subject. And with something more in-depth than the standard "There are no plans to change the current system". But personally I feel it's presumptuous of us to expect them to do that. They're under no obligation to explain anything they do in-game. And while we can all argue until we're blue in the face the system is the system. Whether we agree with it is irrelevant.
Power pips are not necessarily one pip, nor are they necessarily containers, -for all we actually know they are simply raw magical power, two droplets of water splashed into each other, but only those with mastery can use both droplets- and if we only use one, why not keep one?

Because it would defy your understanding of it,
again, this is all nothing more than conjecture.

I agree- we could argue until we're blue in the face.
I don't want to though. I normally log off and rejoin later before I get to that point.

There are many reasons to be in favor,
and many reasons (I guess?) to be against...

It would be nice if KI weighed in...
though of course, only if they would like.

Also, I feel the need to say
it does matter if we disagree.

If they didn't want feedback on how they could make the game better-
the dorms wouldn't exist.

They are not obligated to change anything, naturally.
I don't honestly expect them to.

I simply think this would be a nice and beneficial change,
and perhaps someone at KI will agree.
Now, if you'll excuse me, we just found a stray cat-
his whiskers look like they've been ripped off by something
and he's infested with fleas.

I need to assist, so I'm logging off.
(Thank glob for tea tree oil)

Defender
Nov 12, 2013
110
You guys/gals are getting too in depth about my examples, forget one is an aoe and one is not, forget that one is a double attack and one is not, focus on the pip, isn't that why we're here?

Say someone starts second in a pvp match and magically gets a shadow pip as well as 3 power pips. They cast glow bug, and under our system they gain one pip back. Now they only have to wait 2 rounds instead of 3 to cast the next shadow spell. If the player going first uses a 3 pip spell, which is highly unlikely, they also utilize this advantage.

This change is helpful for everyone, some schools more is certain circumstances. All this would do is make things go faster, everyone would save time and energy. I clearly remember hearing Diego state that a power pip functions as 2 pips for your primary school. Well, if that's the case then why don't we receive the pip that was not used back. Yep folks you heard it right here, 2 PIPS, NOT ONE WHOLE PIP, so guess what that means! TECHNICALLY, we should receive the remaining pip.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Arcanexo on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
You guys/gals are getting too in depth about my examples, forget one is an aoe and one is not, forget that one is a double attack and one is not, focus on the pip, isn't that why we're here?

Say someone starts second in a pvp match and magically gets a shadow pip as well as 3 power pips. They cast glow bug, and under our system they gain one pip back. Now they only have to wait 2 rounds instead of 3 to cast the next shadow spell. If the player going first uses a 3 pip spell, which is highly unlikely, they also utilize this advantage.

This change is helpful for everyone, some schools more is certain circumstances. All this would do is make things go faster, everyone would save time and energy. I clearly remember hearing Diego state that a power pip functions as 2 pips for your primary school. Well, if that's the case then why don't we receive the pip that was not used back. Yep folks you heard it right here, 2 PIPS, NOT ONE WHOLE PIP, so guess what that means! TECHNICALLY, we should receive the remaining pip.
The key word in Diego's statement is "FUNCTIONS".
If that power pip was meant to be two pips, Diego would have said "IS". Whatever convoluted reasoning you choose to describe it, it is still one pip.

That's right folks, I said it, you heard it right here, 1 PIP, NOT 2 PIPS. There's no technically about it, and there is no remaining pip.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Mister Peanut on Jun 9, 2015 wrote:
I don't recall saying anything dismissing time as a currency-
but yes, time is not the currency spent on spells. Pips are.
No rounds are gained nor are any rounds lost.

A pip- not an extra pip- is left over every time an odd number spell is used.
That's the primary change being discussed here.

Yes, it will change things greatly-
and from my perspective, it will be a significant improvement.

I am beginning to suspect this has become less of a discussion
and more of an argument.

Are you simply not in favor of change?
(Not a jab, but an honest question)

Some people just don't like change,
and since I'm looking for reasons here...
this seems to be yours.

There may not be any need to change it-
but there's also no reason not to improve it.

Despite various grievances, I can see this change:
A: Speeding up the pace of every battle
B: Making spells with odd # pip costs less off putting
C: Opening up a variety of different stratagems that wouldn't have worked before.

I could probably come up with more reasons in favor,
but you'll probably focus more on shooting them down
than actually seeing just how awesome this change would be.

I have to ask you Seethe42-
have you ever agreed or approved any ideas put forth on these forums?
If so, I'd like to see them- they must have been flawless...
You state that it's not an extra pip, but in fact it IS. A power pip functions as if it were 2 pips ONLY for school mastery. By returning a regular pip in change, you are using it for mastery AND as a regular pip. That is gaining an extra pip. As for your assertion that I'm only opposed to change, not true. I'm opposed to "fixing" something that isn't broken. This simply isn't an improvement to the game and I think would change things for the worse, not better.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
seethe42 on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
You state that it's not an extra pip, but in fact it IS. A power pip functions as if it were 2 pips ONLY for school mastery. By returning a regular pip in change, you are using it for mastery AND as a regular pip. That is gaining an extra pip. As for your assertion that I'm only opposed to change, not true. I'm opposed to "fixing" something that isn't broken. This simply isn't an improvement to the game and I think would change things for the worse, not better.
see, I dont see how it's gaining anything. If you have 8 pips, and cast a 7 pip spell, you're not GAINING an extra pip, you're simply receiving the pip you didnt use. The current method, we're LOSING that pip. The big issue that you're arguing, is that you dont see it as a problem to lose that pip. You seem to see it as an "unfair" advantage if we get the unused portion of the pip back. This has been, and currently is, the argument against changing it. Im not saying you're right or wrong, im simply saying, I dont see it the same way. I see it as we're losing a pip, you see it as gaining an extra pip that we didnt earn based off of rounds, etc

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
The key word in Diego's statement is "FUNCTIONS".
If that power pip was meant to be two pips, Diego would have said "IS". Whatever convoluted reasoning you choose to describe it, it is still one pip.

That's right folks, I said it, you heard it right here, 1 PIP, NOT 2 PIPS. There's no technically about it, and there is no remaining pip.
Not technically but in actuality, it's one power pip-
not one pip, not two pips, but one power pip.
One power pip that can be used to cast a spell that would cost 2 pips if one has mastery.

Now, if you don't mind-
this particular part of the discussion has been a really dead end
"Yes, No, Yes, No" sort of argument...

It's all a matter of how one perceives it.
Once again- all conjecture.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on Jun 10, 2015 wrote:
You state that it's not an extra pip, but in fact it IS. A power pip functions as if it were 2 pips ONLY for school mastery. By returning a regular pip in change, you are using it for mastery AND as a regular pip. That is gaining an extra pip. As for your assertion that I'm only opposed to change, not true. I'm opposed to "fixing" something that isn't broken. This simply isn't an improvement to the game and I think would change things for the worse, not better.
*sigh*

M'kay now.

Depending on how you look at the current system,
it can be reasonably said the the current system is flawed.

It's not "broken" and I don't think I've ever referred to it as such.
If I myself did, apologies, I misspoke. However, I don't think I did.

Yes. Looking at the game objectively, it is inarguably flawed.

It COULD stay as is, and everything would be fine.
It COULD change, and it would be better.

When you consider that at some point in the game your power pip chance gets so high that just about every turn you're more likely to get a power pip than a regular pip- and at some point, especially if you have gear that boosts it, the odds of getting a regular pip pretty much dies off altogether.

I had a character whose power pip chance was over 100% before he even reached level 60.

Now consider the amount of odd number pip spells in the game.
Consider how every round you're essentially choosing-
using your coupon analogy- the 1$ fries instead of the 2$ burger.

It works just fine, sure.
It would work even better if the remaining 1 pip for each odd spell was left over. There would be more turns when you have just enough for odd number spells.

Yes, the remaining. Not the extra.
In this scenario, with this change,
when using an odd number spell-
the remaining 1 pip is left over.

We are not discussing the way things are now-
we are discussing a possible, hypothetical scenario in which things change.

It would be a change across the board, for every Wizard.

Please, explain to me how this would be a hindrance.
No- not a challenge. An honest question.
Forgetting the pointless debates and simply operating under the assumption that this change was implemented- please describe to me every single instance of gameplay that would suffer as a result.

Help me understand by telling me-
not just with vague sentences like
"I wouldn't like it"
"It's not necessary"
or saying "It would make things worse"
without detailing with facts how it would make things worse.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Mister Peanut on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
*sigh*

M'kay now.

Depending on how you look at the current system,
it can be reasonably said the the current system is flawed.

It's not "broken" and I don't think I've ever referred to it as such.
If I myself did, apologies, I misspoke. However, I don't think I did.

Yes. Looking at the game objectively, it is inarguably flawed.

It COULD stay as is, and everything would be fine.
It COULD change, and it would be better.

When you consider that at some point in the game your power pip chance gets so high that just about every turn you're more likely to get a power pip than a regular pip- and at some point, especially if you have gear that boosts it, the odds of getting a regular pip pretty much dies off altogether.

I had a character whose power pip chance was over 100% before he even reached level 60.

Now consider the amount of odd number pip spells in the game.
Consider how every round you're essentially choosing-
using your coupon analogy- the 1$ fries instead of the 2$ burger.

It works just fine, sure.
It would work even better if the remaining 1 pip for each odd spell was left over. There would be more turns when you have just enough for odd number spells.

Yes, the remaining. Not the extra.
In this scenario, with this change,
when using an odd number spell-
the remaining 1 pip is left over.

We are not discussing the way things are now-
we are discussing a possible, hypothetical scenario in which things change.

It would be a change across the board, for every Wizard.

Please, explain to me how this would be a hindrance.
No- not a challenge. An honest question.
Forgetting the pointless debates and simply operating under the assumption that this change was implemented- please describe to me every single instance of gameplay that would suffer as a result.

Help me understand by telling me-
not just with vague sentences like
"I wouldn't like it"
"It's not necessary"
or saying "It would make things worse"
without detailing with facts how it would make things worse.
It's not inarguably flawed because this string now contains four pages of arguments. Some lucid, some - not so much...
Here's my honest answer to your honest question:
In essence, what you're proposing is that the power pip system should just go away. No more power pips - period. No more school mastery - period. Instead of a row of power pips we should just have a longer row of normal pips. I'm sure you'll argue that this is not what you want, you just want some change back from your power pip. Getting one back when you're using one, dividing something that cannot be divided. But altering the current system to allow for that has more far reaching impact. That's basically what the system would be reduced to and that's a shame. You strip away all of the back-story that adds to the immersion of the game. The studying and the dedication that a student puts into learning their craft. Sure, depending on your point of view it doesn't harm the basic game-play but it removes a layer of depth that's part of what makes the game enjoyable to many. Having mastery in your chosen school demonstrates a proficiency that takes effort to achieve. And the entire game is all about achievement. The strategy involved in balancing the use of those pips and power pips may not seem like a big deal on the surface but when it's gone the game will be lessened because of it. Life would go on, the Sun would still rise in the morning but W101 would be just a little bit less challenging and enjoyable to play.

And this, in my opinion, is how "it would make things worse".

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
It's not inarguably flawed because this string now contains four pages of arguments. Some lucid, some - not so much...
Here's my honest answer to your honest question:
In essence, what you're proposing is that the power pip system should just go away. No more power pips - period. No more school mastery - period. Instead of a row of power pips we should just have a longer row of normal pips. I'm sure you'll argue that this is not what you want, you just want some change back from your power pip. Getting one back when you're using one, dividing something that cannot be divided. But altering the current system to allow for that has more far reaching impact. That's basically what the system would be reduced to and that's a shame. You strip away all of the back-story that adds to the immersion of the game. The studying and the dedication that a student puts into learning their craft. Sure, depending on your point of view it doesn't harm the basic game-play but it removes a layer of depth that's part of what makes the game enjoyable to many. Having mastery in your chosen school demonstrates a proficiency that takes effort to achieve. And the entire game is all about achievement. The strategy involved in balancing the use of those pips and power pips may not seem like a big deal on the surface but when it's gone the game will be lessened because of it. Life would go on, the Sun would still rise in the morning but W101 would be just a little bit less challenging and enjoyable to play.

And this, in my opinion, is how "it would make things worse".
No, school mastery would simply NOT be eliminated if this change was implemented. It would, in fact, be enhanced.

It will not be the same as simply getting two pips every turn.

The only time power pips will give the remaining 1 pip is when a spell with an odd pip cost with which you have mastery is cast. The only time this change will come into play is with school mastery. Eliminating school mastery would make this whole thread and suggested change mute and pointless.

This is not an argument- it's a correction.

I'm sorry,
but you can't call a cat a dog
and expect people not to say otherwise.

Speaking in terms of immersion and lore,
please state at least one instance where this change would defy what a character has previously asserted?

Just what information do we have on pips and the nature of pips?

Otherwise, that part of your argument is also mute.

Now that I've cut away the fat and bone...
getting to the meat of your post...
the one thing that is without a doubt a solid complaint...
It would make things easier...
Take away the sense of accomplishment...
not entirely true, but not entirely wrong either...
Hmm...

Thank you for this input.
I will ruminate on this...

Seriously, thanks!

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
dayerider on Jun 11, 2015 wrote:
see, I dont see how it's gaining anything. If you have 8 pips, and cast a 7 pip spell, you're not GAINING an extra pip, you're simply receiving the pip you didnt use. The current method, we're LOSING that pip. The big issue that you're arguing, is that you dont see it as a problem to lose that pip. You seem to see it as an "unfair" advantage if we get the unused portion of the pip back. This has been, and currently is, the argument against changing it. Im not saying you're right or wrong, im simply saying, I dont see it the same way. I see it as we're losing a pip, you see it as gaining an extra pip that we didnt earn based off of rounds, etc
Yup- your take on this is identical to my own.

I see you also understand the opposing point of view.
That is admirable.
I think there's only a few people left who fail to understand the opposing side's point of view.
For the most part, this thread reminds me of that old lady/young lady optical illusion.

It is a young lady if you look at it one way
and an old lady if you look at it another way.

Maybe once each side is able to see both sides,
we can move towards a more constructive discussion...

and when certain misinformation and misunderstandings get the boot,
that will help as well...

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Mister Peanut on Jun 12, 2015 wrote:
No, school mastery would simply NOT be eliminated if this change was implemented. It would, in fact, be enhanced.

It will not be the same as simply getting two pips every turn.

The only time power pips will give the remaining 1 pip is when a spell with an odd pip cost with which you have mastery is cast. The only time this change will come into play is with school mastery. Eliminating school mastery would make this whole thread and suggested change mute and pointless.

This is not an argument- it's a correction.

I'm sorry,
but you can't call a cat a dog
and expect people not to say otherwise.

Speaking in terms of immersion and lore,
please state at least one instance where this change would defy what a character has previously asserted?

Just what information do we have on pips and the nature of pips?

Otherwise, that part of your argument is also mute.

Now that I've cut away the fat and bone...
getting to the meat of your post...
the one thing that is without a doubt a solid complaint...
It would make things easier...
Take away the sense of accomplishment...
not entirely true, but not entirely wrong either...
Hmm...

Thank you for this input.
I will ruminate on this...

Seriously, thanks!
While I appreciate your sentiment, with all due respect you cannot "correct" an opinion. We will simply have to agree to disagree. You are correct on one count... calling a cat a dog doesn't make it a dog. But calling one pip two pips doesn't make it two pips. It isn't an algebraic equation in which there are variable values. It isn't calculus, it isn't quantum theory, it's rudimentary arithmetic. 1=1. Not 1=2. The only variable involved is that in certain circumstances in which your school mastery comes into play, one pip can have the effect of two. It doesn't BECOME two... it has the EFFECT of two. If it became two then change would be due but it doesn't so therefor there is no residual. And the "nature of the pips" is irrelevant. That would be fat and bones. We don't need any further explanation of what a pip is. It's a pip, plain and simple and that is the true meat of the matter.
Regarding immersion and lore, the power pip issue is a fundamental aspect of the game that is taught very early on. During the first few tutorial levels you are instructed in the basics of magic. Diego is very clear in his discussion in regards to power pips. It's not a question of defying anything a character has previously asserted.
At any rate, one thing you say is true... it would make things easier. But is that truly what you want? It would appear it is and that is disappointing. I certainly hope I'm wrong. I do enjoy the challenge and the strategy and that's why I play the game. That's also why I continue to argue vehemently against altering this system. If I wanted things easier I'd play checkers with my cat.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 12, 2015 wrote:
While I appreciate your sentiment, with all due respect you cannot "correct" an opinion. We will simply have to agree to disagree. You are correct on one count... calling a cat a dog doesn't make it a dog. But calling one pip two pips doesn't make it two pips. It isn't an algebraic equation in which there are variable values. It isn't calculus, it isn't quantum theory, it's rudimentary arithmetic. 1=1. Not 1=2. The only variable involved is that in certain circumstances in which your school mastery comes into play, one pip can have the effect of two. It doesn't BECOME two... it has the EFFECT of two. If it became two then change would be due but it doesn't so therefor there is no residual. And the "nature of the pips" is irrelevant. That would be fat and bones. We don't need any further explanation of what a pip is. It's a pip, plain and simple and that is the true meat of the matter.
Regarding immersion and lore, the power pip issue is a fundamental aspect of the game that is taught very early on. During the first few tutorial levels you are instructed in the basics of magic. Diego is very clear in his discussion in regards to power pips. It's not a question of defying anything a character has previously asserted.
At any rate, one thing you say is true... it would make things easier. But is that truly what you want? It would appear it is and that is disappointing. I certainly hope I'm wrong. I do enjoy the challenge and the strategy and that's why I play the game. That's also why I continue to argue vehemently against altering this system. If I wanted things easier I'd play checkers with my cat.
Yeah, that wasn't a matter of opinion hun.
You made a claim that in no way had any basis in fact.
So I said, yeah, no. That's simply not accurate.

Your claim:
"In essence, what you're proposing is that the power pip system should just go away. No more power pips - period. No more school mastery - period. Instead of a row of power pips we should just have a longer row of normal pips. I'm sure you'll argue that this is not what you want, you just want some change back from your power pip"

The reality:
If the power pip system is gone, this change won't be applicable.

Please work on differentiation between opinions and claims.

Example opinion:
"I don't think it would be good for the game if power pips left behind the remaining 1 pip when an odd number spell is used. I don't feel that power pips should be dividable. For me and others, it will most likely result in a break in immersion."

Example claim:

"It would not be good for the game if power pips left behind the remaining 1 pip when an odd number spell is used. Power pips should not be dividable. It will result in a break in immersion for everybody."

Your claim that calling 1 pip two pips doesn't make it two pips is true,
and likewise, calling 1 POWER pip 1 pip doesn't make it 1 pip.

Your claim that the "nature of pips" is irrelevant is self contradicting. This entire thread you've been discussing the nature of pips. It's been your main hangup, despite there being absolutely no evidence to back up your claim that power pips by nature cannot/should not be divided. It's like you think power pips are similar to an atom or something- Oh no, don't split it! You'll destroy us all!

The fact of the matter is, if KI decided to make this change, power pips will be dividable, speaking theoretically- as they are now, they are not, only because that is the way KI has it set up.

Flawed logic is flawed logic.
Condensed down to one sentence:
You don't think power pips should leave the remaining 1 pip,
because they currently don't.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 12, 2015 wrote:
While I appreciate your sentiment, with all due respect you cannot "correct" an opinion. We will simply have to agree to disagree. You are correct on one count... calling a cat a dog doesn't make it a dog. But calling one pip two pips doesn't make it two pips. It isn't an algebraic equation in which there are variable values. It isn't calculus, it isn't quantum theory, it's rudimentary arithmetic. 1=1. Not 1=2. The only variable involved is that in certain circumstances in which your school mastery comes into play, one pip can have the effect of two. It doesn't BECOME two... it has the EFFECT of two. If it became two then change would be due but it doesn't so therefor there is no residual. And the "nature of the pips" is irrelevant. That would be fat and bones. We don't need any further explanation of what a pip is. It's a pip, plain and simple and that is the true meat of the matter.
Regarding immersion and lore, the power pip issue is a fundamental aspect of the game that is taught very early on. During the first few tutorial levels you are instructed in the basics of magic. Diego is very clear in his discussion in regards to power pips. It's not a question of defying anything a character has previously asserted.
At any rate, one thing you say is true... it would make things easier. But is that truly what you want? It would appear it is and that is disappointing. I certainly hope I'm wrong. I do enjoy the challenge and the strategy and that's why I play the game. That's also why I continue to argue vehemently against altering this system. If I wanted things easier I'd play checkers with my cat.
I ran out of room- so here's the rest of what I have to say.

It would make things easier is indeed a valid and completely relevant reason to be against it. Games, especially strategy card games like this one, are meant to be challenging.

Although after contemplating this- it might not actually make it easier.
It might be just as difficult- or more difficult. Because this change would be applicable to your opponents as well! If anything it would raise the pace of each battle without making it easier. It will certainly open up a variety of different stratagems, which also are key in games like this.

Diego never said anything by the way,
about spells with an odd number pip cost.

When you learn from Diego-
you always have just enough to cast the spell from your school.

As for playing with your cat...
some cats are pretty darn fun to play games with.
See the Youtube video where the cat plays Jenga?
Adorable. Kitty got a deft paw.

Speaking of Kittens- remember the one I mentioned we took in?
She's doing well. Fleas are gone, she's well fed and watered and using her litter box. Gotta take her to the vet though, Big Sis thinks she might have mange :( still haven't settled on a name, though I just call her Precious myself.

Archon
Sep 17, 2012
4162
Mister Peanut on Jun 14, 2015 wrote:
I ran out of room- so here's the rest of what I have to say.

It would make things easier is indeed a valid and completely relevant reason to be against it. Games, especially strategy card games like this one, are meant to be challenging.

Although after contemplating this- it might not actually make it easier.
It might be just as difficult- or more difficult. Because this change would be applicable to your opponents as well! If anything it would raise the pace of each battle without making it easier. It will certainly open up a variety of different stratagems, which also are key in games like this.

Diego never said anything by the way,
about spells with an odd number pip cost.

When you learn from Diego-
you always have just enough to cast the spell from your school.

As for playing with your cat...
some cats are pretty darn fun to play games with.
See the Youtube video where the cat plays Jenga?
Adorable. Kitty got a deft paw.

Speaking of Kittens- remember the one I mentioned we took in?
She's doing well. Fleas are gone, she's well fed and watered and using her litter box. Gotta take her to the vet though, Big Sis thinks she might have mange :( still haven't settled on a name, though I just call her Precious myself.
"Power pips are not necessarily one pip..."

Actually Diego does say A power pip COUNTS as double, but only for your school of focus. That does say that it's A pip, not 2 pips. It's true he never discusses change or odd pip spells, but he is clear that a power pip is one pip that COUNTS as 2 with your school mastery. That clearly states that it's ONE pip.

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Mister Peanut on Jun 14, 2015 wrote:
I ran out of room- so here's the rest of what I have to say.

It would make things easier is indeed a valid and completely relevant reason to be against it. Games, especially strategy card games like this one, are meant to be challenging.

Although after contemplating this- it might not actually make it easier.
It might be just as difficult- or more difficult. Because this change would be applicable to your opponents as well! If anything it would raise the pace of each battle without making it easier. It will certainly open up a variety of different stratagems, which also are key in games like this.

Diego never said anything by the way,
about spells with an odd number pip cost.

When you learn from Diego-
you always have just enough to cast the spell from your school.

As for playing with your cat...
some cats are pretty darn fun to play games with.
See the Youtube video where the cat plays Jenga?
Adorable. Kitty got a deft paw.

Speaking of Kittens- remember the one I mentioned we took in?
She's doing well. Fleas are gone, she's well fed and watered and using her litter box. Gotta take her to the vet though, Big Sis thinks she might have mange :( still haven't settled on a name, though I just call her Precious myself.
Well, I think I give up. Not my arguments, but in trying to make them clear to you. At any rate, happy gaming and I wish you best of luck in the spiral. May all of your pips be power pips. (wait, did I type that out loud?)
Oh yeah, to be nitpicky... for the record, it's not mute and pointless, it's moot and pointless.

P.S.- I'm glad your kitty is doing well. I'm not a dog lover/hater... I can take them or leave them. But I'm definitely a cat man. Hey, I know, you should name her "Pip".

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 15, 2015 wrote:
Well, I think I give up. Not my arguments, but in trying to make them clear to you. At any rate, happy gaming and I wish you best of luck in the spiral. May all of your pips be power pips. (wait, did I type that out loud?)
Oh yeah, to be nitpicky... for the record, it's not mute and pointless, it's moot and pointless.

P.S.- I'm glad your kitty is doing well. I'm not a dog lover/hater... I can take them or leave them. But I'm definitely a cat man. Hey, I know, you should name her "Pip".
Well, thanks for trying.
I really didn't understand most of what you said,
and some of it was simply outright inaccurate,
but you did make a few good points.

As for naming the cat,
my sister has the authority on that.
I wouldn't name her Pip, though Pippy might not be bad...
Meh.

(I'm also a cat man)

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
seethe42 on Jun 15, 2015 wrote:
"Power pips are not necessarily one pip..."

Actually Diego does say A power pip COUNTS as double, but only for your school of focus. That does say that it's A pip, not 2 pips. It's true he never discusses change or odd pip spells, but he is clear that a power pip is one pip that COUNTS as 2 with your school mastery. That clearly states that it's ONE pip.
Uuuuuuckkk...
Why are there such long periods of nonsense before someone says something that makes sense and is actually valid?

Anyway, yes, it's one POWER pip (not one pip)
that counts as two under said circumstances.
This is already well established.

So more on point-
Diego never says anything about it-
no character ever says anything about it.
Apparently KI themselves never say anything about it...

So if this change really did happen,
it would not be in conflict with any lore
or any previously asserted claims.

Yes?

Astrologist
Dec 26, 2013
1124
Mister Peanut on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
Uuuuuuckkk...
Why are there such long periods of nonsense before someone says something that makes sense and is actually valid?

Anyway, yes, it's one POWER pip (not one pip)
that counts as two under said circumstances.
This is already well established.

So more on point-
Diego never says anything about it-
no character ever says anything about it.
Apparently KI themselves never say anything about it...

So if this change really did happen,
it would not be in conflict with any lore
or any previously asserted claims.

Yes?
See, this is one instance when the "long periods of nonsense" come into play. Your statement: "Anyway, yes, it's one POWER pip (not one pip) that counts as two under said circumstances." is outright contradictory. Is it one is one, or is it one is not one? It cannot be both. It is one is one in the current system and that's the argument. All of your claims to the contrary would be true if the system were not as it is. Were the system to be altered to allow what you want to happen then all of this would be moot. And regarding lore, as I mentioned in my original reference to the immersion factor, it is an agreeably minor point but valid nonetheless regardless of whether or not you choose to see it as such. And for the record, I still have yet to see any direct, logical examples of any of my "outright inaccuracies", or valid counters for that matter. With specific emphasis on valid. At one point you made reference to my statement regarding the nature of pips. This was in direct response to your statement "Just what information do we have on pips and the nature of pips?" In fact, all of the reference we need regarding the nature of pips is contained within Diego's tutorial. How you interpret that information is up to you but it's pretty simple.

And yeah, maybe Pippy would be better for a female cat. Especially if she has boots.

Defender
Aug 03, 2011
135
It's the company's choices. They can do anything they want to, like 2-1=0 or 4-3=0 and so on. This calculations make sense in dueling situations. You cannot have 2 power pips, use a 3 pip spell, then a pip would appear in place. To some people, it will not appeal to them. This "miscalculation" will satisfy 55% of the population of Wizard101.

Survivor
Jul 14, 2014
33
I totally agree with you my solution is to create a pip for your school. for example, i am a myth wizard, and say i have a power pip i cast blood bat (a basic 1 pip spell) now the game registers that i do not have a normal pip so it thinks, "i shall use the power pip." once the power pip is used, it would normally disappear entirely but my suggestion to Kingsisle is that the game uses one half of my pip and diverts the other to an outer ring, like shadow pips only it is called a myth pip and be saved until i cast another blood bat.

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
TucsonWizard on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
See, this is one instance when the "long periods of nonsense" come into play. Your statement: "Anyway, yes, it's one POWER pip (not one pip) that counts as two under said circumstances." is outright contradictory. Is it one is one, or is it one is not one? It cannot be both. It is one is one in the current system and that's the argument. All of your claims to the contrary would be true if the system were not as it is. Were the system to be altered to allow what you want to happen then all of this would be moot. And regarding lore, as I mentioned in my original reference to the immersion factor, it is an agreeably minor point but valid nonetheless regardless of whether or not you choose to see it as such. And for the record, I still have yet to see any direct, logical examples of any of my "outright inaccuracies", or valid counters for that matter. With specific emphasis on valid. At one point you made reference to my statement regarding the nature of pips. This was in direct response to your statement "Just what information do we have on pips and the nature of pips?" In fact, all of the reference we need regarding the nature of pips is contained within Diego's tutorial. How you interpret that information is up to you but it's pretty simple.

And yeah, maybe Pippy would be better for a female cat. Especially if she has boots.
I only said it was "one power pip" to correct him for saying one power pip was one pip. It's not one "pip" obviously. No self contradiction there.

and again, who is to say what a power pip is?

You and your long discussion on what pips are and what they are not AKA "the nature of pips" have been a long and somewhat irksome part of this thread. I only say irksome because the discussion isn't getting anywhere so far. Just back and forth and back and forth...

Also, again, why are we discussing this even?
Obviously one power pip is one power pip.
How is this relevant to my proposed change?
To the topic of this thread?

This kinda nonsense.

As for lore- no. No, it isn't valid.
Diego never, EVER, says anything on the matter.
There is no lore that would be in conflict with this change.
Therefore it isn't valid.

There is fact, and then there is
"outright inaccuracy"

Now, if you can find evidence of any character ever saying anything about the matter of power pips and spells with an odd number pip cost and provide that information here- then we'd be moving forward instead of bickering pointlessly.

Cat is female.
She has no boots.
She does have Mange :(

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
Oni Slayer on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
It's the company's choices. They can do anything they want to, like 2-1=0 or 4-3=0 and so on. This calculations make sense in dueling situations. You cannot have 2 power pips, use a 3 pip spell, then a pip would appear in place. To some people, it will not appeal to them. This "miscalculation" will satisfy 55% of the population of Wizard101.
Yuppers.

It's the company's choice.
Hence my thread here discussing possibly implementing this change.

As for player satisfaction,
I think most would actually be in favor,
and some would just be like, meh, whatever, I can work with this.

A few would grumble about it...
maybe a few would leave the game...

Explorer
Dec 30, 2014
80
kendra ace on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
I totally agree with you my solution is to create a pip for your school. for example, i am a myth wizard, and say i have a power pip i cast blood bat (a basic 1 pip spell) now the game registers that i do not have a normal pip so it thinks, "i shall use the power pip." once the power pip is used, it would normally disappear entirely but my suggestion to Kingsisle is that the game uses one half of my pip and diverts the other to an outer ring, like shadow pips only it is called a myth pip and be saved until i cast another blood bat.
That's actually an interesting proposal.

So instead of getting the leftovers in the form of a pip that can be used with off school spells, you get a pip that can only be used with your school,
or a school you have a mastery amulet for- a half power pip.

See? That is constructive.
Why can't everyone leave feedback like this?

Thank you. Seriously.

Armiger
Jan 11, 2012
2497
Mister Peanut on Jun 16, 2015 wrote:
That's actually an interesting proposal.

So instead of getting the leftovers in the form of a pip that can be used with off school spells, you get a pip that can only be used with your school,
or a school you have a mastery amulet for- a half power pip.

See? That is constructive.
Why can't everyone leave feedback like this?

Thank you. Seriously.
See, this would still maintain the primary school pip vs secondary school pip balance perfectly

Defender
Mar 28, 2011
154
Pips are fine just the way they are. It's a simple system and makes sense. It doesn't need to change. Now if we could just get some more of the shadow ones.