So, as things are, spells with an odd number pip cost (1,3,5,7,9 etc.) sort of interact oddly with power pips.
Let's say you have a spell that costs 1 pip and you use it while you have 1 power pip. What I expected was the power pip to leave behind one ordinary pip, as one power pip is the equivalent of 2 pips. 2-1 = 1, and yet you wind up with none left.
Now let's say you have 2 power pips and 1 spell that costs 3 pips- Since 2 power pips = 4 pips, you'd expect there to be 1 pip left behind, correct? 4-3 = 1, and yet again you wind up with none left.
Same happens with every odd number spell.
I get the feeling things were set up this way deliberately, because I tried to list it under bugs. I guess it wasn't a bug, because it wasn't approved and listed.
Does anyone else agree that this is less than ideal? Does anyone disagree and think things should stay as is? If you disagree, please explain why you feel that things should stay as is- I'm honestly interested in the reason behind this set up, and any insight would help me.
I'm guess the reason is "so you have to strategize and think carefully about your next move and your deck setup" or something along those lines, but you still have to do that either way.
Don't you think this has been suggested before? Like, a lot? The fact that it's not in the game might mean that KI doesn't want to do this, and I agree with them. I once saw someone give a really good explanation on this (I think it was Seethe) but I don't remember the wording well enough to do him justice, so I'll just let him explain it, if it was Seethe and he feels like doing so of course.
Don't you think this has been suggested before? Like, a lot? The fact that it's not in the game might mean that KI doesn't want to do this, and I agree with them. I once saw someone give a really good explanation on this (I think it was Seethe) but I don't remember the wording well enough to do him justice, so I'll just let him explain it, if it was Seethe and he feels like doing so of course.
I was not aware, though I had a vague feeling such an idea would have been expressed before.
Seethe42 seems to command much respect on these forums and is apparently very active on it- I often see him reply to any post I reply to, or any thread I create.
He seems more practical and less... quixotic?
Anyway, pardon me if this post annoyed you for being one of apparently many- If KI is aware and simply has no intention of changing this, then that's that.
Nothing more need be said on the subject I suppose.
(I'm still holding out hope for this change but not expecting it)
btw, has a Kingsisle official ever really said anything or taken a definite stance about this issue in particular? If so, would someone kindly link me to the page in question?
If they really have taken a definite stance, then it truly isn't worth discussing- but if it's just not something they've paid attention to so far, it may be worth it.
I also ponder why Power Pips are not halved from time to time. And I also wasn't aware that so many people had also pondered this. Anyways I think the in-game explanation for this would be that you can't "cut in half" power. For example, picture this:
Back when magic was discovered there were no white pips. Maybe basic pips, or stone pips, or whatever you want to name them. Until the discovery of the fundamental pip on our arsenal: the white pip. A white pip stands for 10 basic pips. And now, the most recent discovering on pips is the Power Pip (not taking shadow ones unto account here. Just figuring they were forgotten just as the school itself.). Standing for 2 white pips, and essentially 20 basic pips.
Anyways this may have just confused the argument even more, especially considering magic as we know it (not original Titan magic) appears to not have been around that much . . . Ambrose has been stated to be the original headmaster by Bartleby, and even wizard can't live that long. And I'm NOT taking Gandalf as an example, because there's a difference between a wizard who was created by Lord of the Rings god and a normal human who learns spells. And no, we're probably not the Gandalf-type because Ambrose said we come from a realm that "does not believe in magic". So yea . . .
Got a little sidetracked there, but the point is, apparently in the Spiral you can't halve power.
I also ponder why Power Pips are not halved from time to time. And I also wasn't aware that so many people had also pondered this. Anyways I think the in-game explanation for this would be that you can't "cut in half" power. For example, picture this:
Back when magic was discovered there were no white pips. Maybe basic pips, or stone pips, or whatever you want to name them. Until the discovery of the fundamental pip on our arsenal: the white pip. A white pip stands for 10 basic pips. And now, the most recent discovering on pips is the Power Pip (not taking shadow ones unto account here. Just figuring they were forgotten just as the school itself.). Standing for 2 white pips, and essentially 20 basic pips.
Anyways this may have just confused the argument even more, especially considering magic as we know it (not original Titan magic) appears to not have been around that much . . . Ambrose has been stated to be the original headmaster by Bartleby, and even wizard can't live that long. And I'm NOT taking Gandalf as an example, because there's a difference between a wizard who was created by Lord of the Rings god and a normal human who learns spells. And no, we're probably not the Gandalf-type because Ambrose said we come from a realm that "does not believe in magic". So yea . . .
Got a little sidetracked there, but the point is, apparently in the Spiral you can't halve power.
???
ummm....are you being imaginative? or is that "pipology" listed somewhere in the game?
It has been mentioned before ad nauseum. The issue is that there really isn't an issue. It's the entire concept of "power pips". When you view your pips, forget for a moment the concept of power pips and just figure what you would have if you were casting an off-school spell. Other than the fact that they're a different color, they are all ONE pip. Power pips just happen to COUNT for two pips when you're casting a spell within your school. Dividing any pip would be 1/2 a pip...period... a fraction, which is impossible, and useless. There aren't any spells that require 1/2 a pip therefore there's no need for it. You simply have to resign yourself to the fact that if you're casting a spell from your school that requires an odd number of pips, and you have all power pips, the cost to cast is going to basically be rounded up to the next even pip. Three will cost you the equivalent of four... five will cost you the equivalent of six, etc. No leftovers.
Imagination is a blessing isn't it? I'm not very imaginative myself, but I appreciate when people share their inner worlds with others- it's part of why I love video games so much. Every game you play came from the imagination of it's creators.
I think I was pretty imaginative when I was younger, characters and worlds blossoming from my psyche, my own little universe inside my head.
I always felt a need to get them out, to share them with everyone but I couldn't draw very well, and my way with words hadn't quite developed yet, and making video games seemed far out of my reach, even back then when the most advanced games were pixelated...
With no outlet to let them out, I think the soil of my mind became... infertile.
It's a life goal of mine to one day learn how to make video games- and how to draw and write beatiful driven theatre to incorporate into the game as well- and become an outlet for a still fertile mind.
but back on topic- I think a "study of pips" would be an interesting thing to incorporate into the game... you may have a golden idea there.
Who knows, maybe KI will explain further into exactly what "pips" are, and where they come from? Why are some pips more powerful?
What exactly are "shadow pips" and why do they exist? Is there an unseen cost to this dark power?
Maybe a "discovery" will result in a piece of equipment that allows you to use power pips more efficiently, as I and apparently many others have discussed.
Maybe just like they have school amulets that allow you to use other spells with power pips, they can have PP efficiency rings or athames?
It has been mentioned before ad nauseum. The issue is that there really isn't an issue. It's the entire concept of "power pips". When you view your pips, forget for a moment the concept of power pips and just figure what you would have if you were casting an off-school spell. Other than the fact that they're a different color, they are all ONE pip. Power pips just happen to COUNT for two pips when you're casting a spell within your school. Dividing any pip would be 1/2 a pip...period... a fraction, which is impossible, and useless. There aren't any spells that require 1/2 a pip therefore there's no need for it. You simply have to resign yourself to the fact that if you're casting a spell from your school that requires an odd number of pips, and you have all power pips, the cost to cast is going to basically be rounded up to the next even pip. Three will cost you the equivalent of four... five will cost you the equivalent of six, etc. No leftovers.
Hmm...Looks like my response wasn't approved by the moderators- I wonder why?
I'll try again.
I apologize if you feel this topic has been discussed too often- I was not aware nor was I a part of the previous discussions on the matter- though if it's been brought up often, that means plenty of people feel as I do and had the same impression I had when they discovered this... what I would call an "oddity" in the current system.
I understand and acknowledge that you feel that things should stay as they are- but as asked in my original post, would you mind explaining why you feel such a change wouldn't be beneficial?
(I understand that a power pip only "counts" for two pips when used for a spell from your own school and is still essentially one pip- but it's one pip with the power of two depending on how it's used. If you use it in such a way that you ought to have one point of power remaining, then you ought to.
If you have remaining power, I see no logical reason for that power to not be utilized. It feels wasteful and untuned. Like only drinking the top half of a soda and then trashing the rest, or letting leftovers rot in the fridge.
In my mind, there's nothing more revolting than waste.)
Hmm...Looks like my response wasn't approved by the moderators- I wonder why?
I'll try again.
I apologize if you feel this topic has been discussed too often- I was not aware nor was I a part of the previous discussions on the matter- though if it's been brought up often, that means plenty of people feel as I do and had the same impression I had when they discovered this... what I would call an "oddity" in the current system.
I understand and acknowledge that you feel that things should stay as they are- but as asked in my original post, would you mind explaining why you feel such a change wouldn't be beneficial?
(I understand that a power pip only "counts" for two pips when used for a spell from your own school and is still essentially one pip- but it's one pip with the power of two depending on how it's used. If you use it in such a way that you ought to have one point of power remaining, then you ought to.
If you have remaining power, I see no logical reason for that power to not be utilized. It feels wasteful and untuned. Like only drinking the top half of a soda and then trashing the rest, or letting leftovers rot in the fridge.
In my mind, there's nothing more revolting than waste.)
No need for apology on your part but maybe one is appropriate from me. I didn't mean to imply that your comments were inappropriate. I just feel that the system seems to cause some confusion in its current state. Actually, the power pip system is brilliant but the concept of dividing one by one is what's confusing. Maybe if the mechanic utilized something different, like "double pips", or "bonus pips" instead of power pips, it would be more conducive to what you're looking for. Eliminating power pips would simplify things and allow for the "1/2 pip" leftover. The problem with that is it nuetralizes the advantage you get when using spells from your school, and that's the whole point of the system and the reason why I don't think the change you propose would be beneficial. If leftover pips were allowed when using a power pip, then it's not really a power pip... it then becomes the same as two normal pips to start with. But it isn't, it only seems like it. The whole idea is that there is no remainder. It's one, whether it's used as one or used as two... it's still one. To use your soda analogy... if you're in the mood for a soda but you only want to drink six ounces, you still have to buy a 12 ounce can. You can drink 6 ounces or 12 ounces for the price of 12 ounces. Maybe if pips came in re-sealable containers you could save one for later but unfortunately they don't, so you "waste" what you don't use. (but not really) Believe me, I agree that it's sometimes frustrating when I want to cast an odd-pipped spell and all I have are power pips. And there are times when my available pips have a definite impact on what spells I use, and when I use them. This just adds to the strategy of the game. Do I wait a round for a possible normal pip or do I go for it now?
I also have to wonder... what DID you say that wasn't approved by the moderators? LOL
No need for apology on your part but maybe one is appropriate from me. I didn't mean to imply that your comments were inappropriate. I just feel that the system seems to cause some confusion in its current state. Actually, the power pip system is brilliant but the concept of dividing one by one is what's confusing. Maybe if the mechanic utilized something different, like "double pips", or "bonus pips" instead of power pips, it would be more conducive to what you're looking for. Eliminating power pips would simplify things and allow for the "1/2 pip" leftover. The problem with that is it nuetralizes the advantage you get when using spells from your school, and that's the whole point of the system and the reason why I don't think the change you propose would be beneficial. If leftover pips were allowed when using a power pip, then it's not really a power pip... it then becomes the same as two normal pips to start with. But it isn't, it only seems like it. The whole idea is that there is no remainder. It's one, whether it's used as one or used as two... it's still one. To use your soda analogy... if you're in the mood for a soda but you only want to drink six ounces, you still have to buy a 12 ounce can. You can drink 6 ounces or 12 ounces for the price of 12 ounces. Maybe if pips came in re-sealable containers you could save one for later but unfortunately they don't, so you "waste" what you don't use. (but not really) Believe me, I agree that it's sometimes frustrating when I want to cast an odd-pipped spell and all I have are power pips. And there are times when my available pips have a definite impact on what spells I use, and when I use them. This just adds to the strategy of the game. Do I wait a round for a possible normal pip or do I go for it now?
I also have to wonder... what DID you say that wasn't approved by the moderators? LOL
Hmmm, yes, strategy was my theory- making you think carefully about your next move. Exactly what came to mind, and exactly what I proposed in my OP. The strategy element would still exist even if power pips did leave the remainders over. There'd just be less opportunities for waste..
As for the double pip as opposed to the power pip... I think you're over thinking it and that's what makes you confused. Essentially, a power pip IS a double pip, when used by a certain school or by a wizard with the appropriate mastery amulet.
So when a life wizard uses a life spell (or another wizard with a life mastery amulet uses a life spell) just for example- power pips are double pips.
They count for two. Two = double.
You have 4 power pips- hence, depending on the spells you're using, you potentially have 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 pips aka 8 pips.
So if you use a spell that costs 9 pips and you have 8 pips- you ought to have 1 pip left.
Power pips = two pips in one.
If it's a death wizard using a life spell with no life mastery amulet, nothing changes. The power pip still = 2 pips, but for the death wizard it will cost both of them because he lacks mastery over life spells and can't utilize the power pip for them.
As for what I said that the moderators didn't approve of... well, I'm not sure. I'd tell you if I knew.
I'm not sure, but I think there has been a miscommunication or misunderstanding between us. I'm sure we'll figure out what's preventing us from seeing eye to eye on this...I hope.
Hmmm, yes, strategy was my theory- making you think carefully about your next move. Exactly what came to mind, and exactly what I proposed in my OP. The strategy element would still exist even if power pips did leave the remainders over. There'd just be less opportunities for waste..
As for the double pip as opposed to the power pip... I think you're over thinking it and that's what makes you confused. Essentially, a power pip IS a double pip, when used by a certain school or by a wizard with the appropriate mastery amulet.
So when a life wizard uses a life spell (or another wizard with a life mastery amulet uses a life spell) just for example- power pips are double pips.
They count for two. Two = double.
You have 4 power pips- hence, depending on the spells you're using, you potentially have 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 pips aka 8 pips.
So if you use a spell that costs 9 pips and you have 8 pips- you ought to have 1 pip left.
Power pips = two pips in one.
If it's a death wizard using a life spell with no life mastery amulet, nothing changes. The power pip still = 2 pips, but for the death wizard it will cost both of them because he lacks mastery over life spells and can't utilize the power pip for them.
As for what I said that the moderators didn't approve of... well, I'm not sure. I'd tell you if I knew.
I'm not sure, but I think there has been a miscommunication or misunderstanding between us. I'm sure we'll figure out what's preventing us from seeing eye to eye on this...I hope.
In essence you have emphasized my point... a power pip can be, but is not always, a "double" pip. Singular. Therefore it can't be divided. That's the whole argument. School advantage or no advantage, a pip is one pip. To re-visit the soda analogy, if you have a six-pack of 12 oz. sodas and 11 people want 6 oz. each, you still have to open all six. The remainder goes down the drain like it never existed but everyone has a drink. If six people want 12 oz. each, you open all six and everyone has a drink. It's not the contents that matter, it's the container. I understand your argument. I really do. But I don't think I'm the one who's over thinking it or confused. It's a very simple and elegant concept. A pip is a pip like a can is a can...there are no leftovers. I don't see a miscommunication on either of our parts. I just think you want what cannot be.
(To be nit-picky... in your example, if you want to cast a 9-pip spell (your school) and you have 4 power pips you're one pip short.)
I like the soda argument, because it illustrates the issue with a real world, simple explanation. However, I will disagree with the 5 people and 6 can illustration. Sure, you open all 6, but why not pour the last half can into a cup and save the last half can? Why does it HAVE to be poured down the drain? I havent changed the soda container OR the contents, Im just not wasting the last half is all. Of course, using the same soda argument, if you knew that 5 people would show up, why not just get a 2 liter bottle and pour it all into cups? Isnt that what this is all about, pip (and soda) management? I have a sister in law that would open up a can, take 2 sips, then leave, so when she would come over, instead of wasting the can/smaller bottle, I would either:
1) use a 2 liter and pour hers out of there 2) use a 12oz can and pour her a cup 3) use a 16oz or 24 oz bottle and pour her a cup
Why should I waste the rest of the drink simply because you don't want the full allotment? By changing how I serve her the liquid, I CAN save the soda, but I CANT save the pip because I can't change how I serve it; ONLY KI can do that. What we're talking about is resource management. If all we had were white pips (giving us 2 white pips per yellow pip), this wouldnt be an issue and the math would return to normal.
I like the soda argument, because it illustrates the issue with a real world, simple explanation. However, I will disagree with the 5 people and 6 can illustration. Sure, you open all 6, but why not pour the last half can into a cup and save the last half can? Why does it HAVE to be poured down the drain? I havent changed the soda container OR the contents, Im just not wasting the last half is all. Of course, using the same soda argument, if you knew that 5 people would show up, why not just get a 2 liter bottle and pour it all into cups? Isnt that what this is all about, pip (and soda) management? I have a sister in law that would open up a can, take 2 sips, then leave, so when she would come over, instead of wasting the can/smaller bottle, I would either:
1) use a 2 liter and pour hers out of there 2) use a 12oz can and pour her a cup 3) use a 16oz or 24 oz bottle and pour her a cup
Why should I waste the rest of the drink simply because you don't want the full allotment? By changing how I serve her the liquid, I CAN save the soda, but I CANT save the pip because I can't change how I serve it; ONLY KI can do that. What we're talking about is resource management. If all we had were white pips (giving us 2 white pips per yellow pip), this wouldnt be an issue and the math would return to normal.
All of this is unnecessarily complicating a simple analogy that explains how the game works in real terms. Adding more complications that have no actual relation to the analogy or game doesn't help. What you're suggesting is to change the game mechanic to fit your personal preference. The way it works makes perfect sense already.
Let me Change the analogy a bit. You get a coupon for a burger place. It says, 1 Free Burger or Fries w/ purchase. The burger costs $2 but the fries only $1. You get one or the other. You cannot get 2 fries just because that's what you'd rather have. The value of the coupon is still the same, it just depends on how you choose to use it.
The pips work perfectly well the way they are. By separating them into single white pips where you sometimes get 2 it eliminates school Mastery completely and makes all schools have exactly the same pip costs for every spell regardless of their school mastery.
All of this is unnecessarily complicating a simple analogy that explains how the game works in real terms. Adding more complications that have no actual relation to the analogy or game doesn't help. What you're suggesting is to change the game mechanic to fit your personal preference. The way it works makes perfect sense already.
Let me Change the analogy a bit. You get a coupon for a burger place. It says, 1 Free Burger or Fries w/ purchase. The burger costs $2 but the fries only $1. You get one or the other. You cannot get 2 fries just because that's what you'd rather have. The value of the coupon is still the same, it just depends on how you choose to use it.
The pips work perfectly well the way they are. By separating them into single white pips where you sometimes get 2 it eliminates school Mastery completely and makes all schools have exactly the same pip costs for every spell regardless of their school mastery.
You make a valid argument, this would in turn eliminate the concept of school mastery. So why not just have this pip conservation implicated in only your main school, problem solved. Although, mastery amulets would in turn have this added to their given abilities.
I see all your sides of the opinion, my conclusion is that this idea should be integrated in game, because as of now when I use fire dragon(7 pips) and the efreet(8 pips) with 4 power pips, they consume THE SAME amount of energy. There is no point in having spells with odd numbered pips because it is truly A WASTE OF ENERGY. There is a law in physics that states that, " energy can neither be created nor destroyed", if that is so then why might I ask ARE WE THROWING AWAY A PERFECTLY GOOD PIP.
Advanced wizards are more knowledgeable regarding magic and we are able to gather energy more effectively, so instead of regular pips we gain power pips, surely we are able to draw back any remaining energy as well? When one casts a spell all the energy and mana comes together to execute the commands, surely if there was excess energy it would either: bost the power of the spell or the energy would come back, not dissipate into thin air!
I believe that this concept should be inputted not into every type of spell, but only your main school.
You make a valid argument, this would in turn eliminate the concept of school mastery. So why not just have this pip conservation implicated in only your main school, problem solved. Although, mastery amulets would in turn have this added to their given abilities.
I see all your sides of the opinion, my conclusion is that this idea should be integrated in game, because as of now when I use fire dragon(7 pips) and the efreet(8 pips) with 4 power pips, they consume THE SAME amount of energy. There is no point in having spells with odd numbered pips because it is truly A WASTE OF ENERGY. There is a law in physics that states that, " energy can neither be created nor destroyed", if that is so then why might I ask ARE WE THROWING AWAY A PERFECTLY GOOD PIP.
Advanced wizards are more knowledgeable regarding magic and we are able to gather energy more effectively, so instead of regular pips we gain power pips, surely we are able to draw back any remaining energy as well? When one casts a spell all the energy and mana comes together to execute the commands, surely if there was excess energy it would either: bost the power of the spell or the energy would come back, not dissipate into thin air!
I believe that this concept should be inputted not into every type of spell, but only your main school.
Or as you suggested, boost the attack by say, 5%-10%?
All of this is unnecessarily complicating a simple analogy that explains how the game works in real terms. Adding more complications that have no actual relation to the analogy or game doesn't help. What you're suggesting is to change the game mechanic to fit your personal preference. The way it works makes perfect sense already.
Let me Change the analogy a bit. You get a coupon for a burger place. It says, 1 Free Burger or Fries w/ purchase. The burger costs $2 but the fries only $1. You get one or the other. You cannot get 2 fries just because that's what you'd rather have. The value of the coupon is still the same, it just depends on how you choose to use it.
The pips work perfectly well the way they are. By separating them into single white pips where you sometimes get 2 it eliminates school Mastery completely and makes all schools have exactly the same pip costs for every spell regardless of their school mastery.
Im sorry you feel Im deliberately trying to complicate a simple analogy. I was merely suggesting alternatives based off of the analogy and why it's not a good comparison. I wont even go into why your next illustration is flawed. Maybe splitting them up into 2 white pips would break things, that's fine, I was merely offering an alternative.
The main problem at hand is the wasting of a pip. I've understood this for a while, but it just doesnt make any sense. You go to buy gas, which costs $1.99 per gallon. You spend the money but the gas station keeps the change. You're gonna be quite mad when they take however much they take. What if the price for the soda, in your example, was $1.65 and you gave $1.75 and the business kept the $.10 because they dont have any change available? We can both come up with examples to counter the other one, based off of illustrations we each show. The bottom line is, If Im spending 8 pips on a 7 pip spell, then I want some benefit to doing so for that extra pip Im losing, or give me the pip back. Perhaps we need to have all spells cost an even number of pips, or maybe make any ODD pip spell be an Xpip spell, or maybe make them ALL Xpip, or let us use mana only in PvE and mana+pips in PvP. There's LOTS of ways this can be done.
Does this really bother my gameplay? Naaaah, I just ignore the whole thing and play the game. However, no matter what solution is shot down, or reason given why a change can't be made, what can't be denied is that pip management is flawed... and THAT was the OP's reason for the post
Im sorry you feel Im deliberately trying to complicate a simple analogy. I was merely suggesting alternatives based off of the analogy and why it's not a good comparison. I wont even go into why your next illustration is flawed. Maybe splitting them up into 2 white pips would break things, that's fine, I was merely offering an alternative.
The main problem at hand is the wasting of a pip. I've understood this for a while, but it just doesnt make any sense. You go to buy gas, which costs $1.99 per gallon. You spend the money but the gas station keeps the change. You're gonna be quite mad when they take however much they take. What if the price for the soda, in your example, was $1.65 and you gave $1.75 and the business kept the $.10 because they dont have any change available? We can both come up with examples to counter the other one, based off of illustrations we each show. The bottom line is, If Im spending 8 pips on a 7 pip spell, then I want some benefit to doing so for that extra pip Im losing, or give me the pip back. Perhaps we need to have all spells cost an even number of pips, or maybe make any ODD pip spell be an Xpip spell, or maybe make them ALL Xpip, or let us use mana only in PvE and mana+pips in PvP. There's LOTS of ways this can be done.
Does this really bother my gameplay? Naaaah, I just ignore the whole thing and play the game. However, no matter what solution is shot down, or reason given why a change can't be made, what can't be denied is that pip management is flawed... and THAT was the OP's reason for the post
You're assigning actual value to something that has no actual value. It's really not complex and makes perfect sense. McD and others do it all the time with coupons or scratch offs. You can get a Big Mac or a Lg Fries, or McMuffin or Hash Browns. The analogy is perfectly valid, you have a choice of either and get no change regardless of cost difference. Pip management is not flawed, how some players deal with it is flawed. You are claiming an illusionary loss.
You make a valid argument, this would in turn eliminate the concept of school mastery. So why not just have this pip conservation implicated in only your main school, problem solved. Although, mastery amulets would in turn have this added to their given abilities.
I see all your sides of the opinion, my conclusion is that this idea should be integrated in game, because as of now when I use fire dragon(7 pips) and the efreet(8 pips) with 4 power pips, they consume THE SAME amount of energy. There is no point in having spells with odd numbered pips because it is truly A WASTE OF ENERGY. There is a law in physics that states that, " energy can neither be created nor destroyed", if that is so then why might I ask ARE WE THROWING AWAY A PERFECTLY GOOD PIP.
Advanced wizards are more knowledgeable regarding magic and we are able to gather energy more effectively, so instead of regular pips we gain power pips, surely we are able to draw back any remaining energy as well? When one casts a spell all the energy and mana comes together to execute the commands, surely if there was excess energy it would either: bost the power of the spell or the energy would come back, not dissipate into thin air!
I believe that this concept should be inputted not into every type of spell, but only your main school.
You are correct - energy can neither be created nor destroyed. Power pips, which are ONE pip, are simply used more efficiently by wizards casting spells within their own school. There-is-no-waste. It's more efficient usage of the same amount of energy in ONE PIP. And it isn't solely for more advanced wizards. Even low levels can use power pips more effectively and get more bang for their buck by utilizing this advanced knowledge of their own school. In a different post, Dayerider used a gasoline analogy and I'll borrow from that... an educated, prudent driver (knowledgable wizard) can squeeze more mileage out of a gallon of gasolene (power pip) through efficient use of the accelerator. That same driver, when driving a vehicle he's not familiar with, will use more gasoline.
In essence you have emphasized my point... a power pip can be, but is not always, a "double" pip. Singular. Therefore it can't be divided. That's the whole argument. School advantage or no advantage, a pip is one pip. To re-visit the soda analogy, if you have a six-pack of 12 oz. sodas and 11 people want 6 oz. each, you still have to open all six. The remainder goes down the drain like it never existed but everyone has a drink. If six people want 12 oz. each, you open all six and everyone has a drink. It's not the contents that matter, it's the container. I understand your argument. I really do. But I don't think I'm the one who's over thinking it or confused. It's a very simple and elegant concept. A pip is a pip like a can is a can...there are no leftovers. I don't see a miscommunication on either of our parts. I just think you want what cannot be.
(To be nit-picky... in your example, if you want to cast a 9-pip spell (your school) and you have 4 power pips you're one pip short.)
Wow...you'd let all that soda go to waste? I wouldn't. I'd find a way to use it or store it for later. I love soda.
Also- there's no reason a singular object can't be split. One pizza. One apple. One orange. One cake. One power pip.
If you have leftovers, it's a crying shame to let them go to waste. Things should never go to waste.
I mean, especially food. That would never fly in my abode. Waste not, want not.
I like the soda argument, because it illustrates the issue with a real world, simple explanation. However, I will disagree with the 5 people and 6 can illustration. Sure, you open all 6, but why not pour the last half can into a cup and save the last half can? Why does it HAVE to be poured down the drain? I havent changed the soda container OR the contents, Im just not wasting the last half is all. Of course, using the same soda argument, if you knew that 5 people would show up, why not just get a 2 liter bottle and pour it all into cups? Isnt that what this is all about, pip (and soda) management? I have a sister in law that would open up a can, take 2 sips, then leave, so when she would come over, instead of wasting the can/smaller bottle, I would either:
1) use a 2 liter and pour hers out of there 2) use a 12oz can and pour her a cup 3) use a 16oz or 24 oz bottle and pour her a cup
Why should I waste the rest of the drink simply because you don't want the full allotment? By changing how I serve her the liquid, I CAN save the soda, but I CANT save the pip because I can't change how I serve it; ONLY KI can do that. What we're talking about is resource management. If all we had were white pips (giving us 2 white pips per yellow pip), this wouldnt be an issue and the math would return to normal.
This is exactly my mentality.
I'd find a way to ascertain that the soda doesn't go to waste, or that the people in question only receive as much as they need.
Since only KI can change things- and since the dorm is the place to propose such changes- I'm here, discussing the matter.
Thinking in terms of container- you have 2 containers available to you. (aside from shadow)
Pips- 1 power Power pips- 2 power (potentially)
If you have 1 power left- why not pour it into the appropriate container? (pip)
You're assigning actual value to something that has no actual value. It's really not complex and makes perfect sense. McD and others do it all the time with coupons or scratch offs. You can get a Big Mac or a Lg Fries, or McMuffin or Hash Browns. The analogy is perfectly valid, you have a choice of either and get no change regardless of cost difference. Pip management is not flawed, how some players deal with it is flawed. You are claiming an illusionary loss.
Actually, you're wrong. They tend to do same cost items. They dont do big mac or fries as the options around here. It's usually fries or drink, small sandwich vs small snadwich, large sandwich vs large sandwich. What you're saying is like, "you can have a hamburger or a big mac for free" and there is no way they are of the same value. Sandwiches are on a different coupon (unless yours does something different). Im not claiming an illusionary loss, it's a real loss. The spell costs 7 pips, 8 are used, I should get one in change. This isnt a case of "use this coupon and cast a free spell", it's a case of "the spell costs 7, I used 8, where's my change?". The system IS flawed, it uses more pips than it should.
I dont understand why this is such a hard thing for people to grasp. It's the most basic of math. You go to the store, get some apples, they cost $9. You give the worker $10. How much change do you get back?
Cost for apples/spell = 9 Cost we pay to get the apples/spell = 10 Real world = you get 1 back Wizard101 World = you get 0 back
How is that accurate? The system is working as designed, so it's not bugged, it's just not accurate, and THAT is the difference
All of this is unnecessarily complicating a simple analogy that explains how the game works in real terms. Adding more complications that have no actual relation to the analogy or game doesn't help. What you're suggesting is to change the game mechanic to fit your personal preference. The way it works makes perfect sense already.
Let me Change the analogy a bit. You get a coupon for a burger place. It says, 1 Free Burger or Fries w/ purchase. The burger costs $2 but the fries only $1. You get one or the other. You cannot get 2 fries just because that's what you'd rather have. The value of the coupon is still the same, it just depends on how you choose to use it.
The pips work perfectly well the way they are. By separating them into single white pips where you sometimes get 2 it eliminates school Mastery completely and makes all schools have exactly the same pip costs for every spell regardless of their school mastery.
I wouldn't go for eliminating school mastery myself either.
Your analogy perfectly describes the way the current system is set up, sure.
However, that doesn't mean the system can't be improved/changed.
I'm hearing a lot of "This is the way things are, just accept it" and very little of "I'd like it to stay this way, and this is the perfectly rational reason it should stay this way"
I'm not opposed in the slightest to disagreement, but I'd like to hear the reason behind the disagreement.
Something aside from what I myself figured the response would be in the OP- "It makes you think critically about your next move"
and something aside from "I think it's fine as is" because that's a position, not a reason for your position.
If my wording suggests irritance, please do pardon me. It is not my intention to be rude or to disrespect.
