Welcome to the Wizard101 Message Boards


Player Guide
Fansites
News
Game Updates
Help

Follow important game updates on Twitter @Wizard101 and @KI_Alerts, and Facebook!

For all account questions and concerns, contact Customer Support.

By posting on the Wizard101 Message Boards you agree to the Code of Conduct.

Some Game Perspective

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Jul 01, 2009
10
On Wizard101Central we can currently find a well written Post about the current state of the game and a insight into the possible future.

The Post written by Nesogra reads as follows:


I'm sure you have all seen the pvp vs pve threads that have popped up recently and as usual I have a different take on this topic all together. Let's take a closer look at each, from mostly a pve perspective (and I hope to keep the little bit about pvp to just reporting basic facts).

First contention: old wild bolt
Yes I know this issue has pretty much passed but there is a lesson from this controversy that explains some of ki's current actions.

For those who don't know, wild bolt use to deal only the 1000 damage hit, but the catch was it has 10% accuracy. For level 1-50, in pve, that low accuracy was enough of an offset. For as long as I can remember (I joined the game in Oct. 2009) wild bolt was a controversial spell in pvp due to players spamming enchanted versions of it. Later on ki added cl which came with the sun school. Now players not only had access to trainable enchantments, they were some that were better than the tcs before cl, which in test the tc versions could be bought by any level. Spamming bolt quickly became how many storm wizards were getting through cl on test. It was no longer the 'hail mary' pass it was intended to be so ki changed it to 10, 100, or 1000 damage.

After that change there was a large and very emotional backlash from storm wizards who had grown to rely on that spell. The lesson learned? If a spell has to be nerfed the sooner it is done the better.

Second contention: Ice's resists round one.
When the dust settled after cl one thing became clear, Ice was the dominate school in pvp to the point where almost everyone was rolling an ice wizard. To be fair to ice, it wasn't (or isn't) the school it self that is op. Ice was (and is) a symptom of a much larger problem with resist that requires a far more radical change to ever be full fixed...(though armor piercing might prove to be a saving grace)

What was ki's response? To make everyone super. WWs gear, mastery amulets, new utility spells, etc.

While this did go a long way towards balancing the schools at level 60 it didn't come without cost. This move cause an even greater increase in power from level 50 to 60 than from just cl. Because of this, many players were able to beat the first round of zf in test in just two days...To slow us down ki greatly increased the grinds...
Ki did take a different approach in AV. In order to challenge us ki had to greatly increase the health and damage output of mobs. This increase has finally challenging enough for the harder core crowd who had that farmed and crafted gear with those 30th+ generation perfect pets. However it has also made the world too difficult for many others, many of which are in ki's target audience, less skilled and casual players. The response from those wizards is to ask for op spells and stats and complain when they are nerfed. One such spell is.....

Third contention: guardian spirit
Now why was this spell oped? Remember gs heals a certain % of the casters total health, not a set amount. Why does this matter? Well think about how much health bosses have in Av and compared to zf. Now think about how high of health they will likely have in the next world. I'm pegging that number at about 15k to 18k early on and 25k late in the world so I'll go with 20k for this example. Now think about what 25% (what gs healed before the nerf) of 20k is....or since I'm the math nerd I'll just tell you, it's 5k. If that boss happens to crit gs it would bring them back up to 10k... So after hitting 20k you then have to turn around and deal another 5k to the same boss before they can cast it again. Also remember any traps that would be on that boss when they were brought back by gs would be gone. Even after the nerf I'm kind of hoping this spell doesn't end up in the decks of life bosses .

Fourth contention: Ice's resists round two.
Now we are at the current controversy, ice resists (again).
Ki could do nothing but here is a question I would like answered.... How can ki make a mob or boss that could kill a well equipped ice without completely destroying the more fragile damage schools, storm, fire, and myth? I really don't think that is possible :\.

Ki could make everyone super with a new set of gear again...but at what cost? Once again it would help balance the schools to each other. However...the mobs and bosses only just became strong enough to take down a wws wizard.... If ki wants to challenge wizards in that new gear how much more will they need to increase the difficulty in the next world? How hard will it be for those who can't spend hours farming for that gear? I really don't think this is a good idea...

The last option is to just nerf ice's crafted gear and imo this is the only practical option (well I use the term 'nerf' losely, I see no issue with bumping up the damage numbers at the same ). To those who rely on that gear to make it through pve don't worry, as always I have a much crazier solution that will help you out.

Before that though let's review... First, from wildbolt, we don't liked to get nerfed and the more attached we are to a spell or stat the less we like it. This means if ki has to nerf something the sooner it happens the better. Second, from Ice resist round one, ki could choose to make us all super but it leads to either pve being way to easy for those with the op gear or too hard for those without it. The latter leads to resistance to nerfing spells in general as shown by guardian spirit.

In a nutshell, the real divide isn't just between pve and pvp. There is a much more important divide between the casual and harder core elements of pve. Here is kicker, there is something very simple ki can go to fix this divide, split pve into two difficulties. How to do this? Why side quests silly

The idea:
Three types of quests (and it would be nice if they were clearly labeled).

Main story line (blue?)- Of course there would be main storyline quests but under this system they would be a little different. They would be used to tell the story and to unlock areas. In other words, we won't receive much xp from these quests. To hit max level we would have to pick from one of two types of side quests....

Side quest option one- Easy side quests (green?).
Nothing fancy, maybe a few simple boss cheats but nothing too major. They can take awhile but they should be soloable by most players without much issue.

Side quest option two- Hard side quests (red?).
This is wear ki adds challenge to the game . Cheating bosses, high damage output normal bosses and mobs, hard puzzles :D!, and maybe throw us a few curve balls like mobs and bosses with stats and wizard like decks.

Now why would anyone pick the hard quests over the easy ones? Very simple, all of the best gear would be dropped only by bosses in the hard quests. Now before I finish up let me go ahead and reply to points I know I would get...

'But why should only players who beat the hard quests get good gear?'
First notice I said the best gear. There would still be good gear dropped in the easy quests, just not those sets that are pushing game breaking stats. Plus the point of the easy quests is so players (like a busy mom and her kids) can just play the game instead of having to endless farm a dungeon for gear... It should soloable with bazaar bought gear.

'But I only want to pvp'
Think of it as practice for the arena. Pvpers are often the best equipped players in the game... How do you expect to win against those who have been able to finish these quests in the arena?

'Why only two difficulties?'
Ki could easily make more than two difficulties (maybe a third-moderate, yellow?). I only proposed two because...well..those two are kind of needed...

Something has to change in pve. There is just no way ki can make one quest both challenging for the harder core portion and it still be playable by the casual crowd. Avalon is already pushing out ki's target audience, families, and if it continues this game will be unplayable by all except the highly skilled in the near future.

Link to the thread http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299666

I believe it is worth it to take a look at it and maybe consider the ideas.
Thank you Kingsisle for listening.


Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2737
Absolutely refreshing to see someone analyzing the big picture. Almost every MMO at some point experiences this dilemma. Cater to the hardcore, diehard fans or attract fresh players in the casual feel that started it all. Hardcore players will quit if the content doesn't engage them enough and casual players will quit if the content is too hard. Bickering ensues in the meantime. Very few MMOs can pull it off successfully.

Nesogra has some of the best posts over at Central (especially regarding Balance matters). Glad to see his solution-based post made it over here.

Survivor
Nov 29, 2009
7
I have been complaining about overpowered resist for quite some time. There is no more important stat in the game. The present situation has meant I have left ranked pvp entirely. It isn't worth the hassle of facing an ice with resist nearing the point of immunity to both storm and fire and exceeding the effects of a tower shield on every other school. I can also see problems with overpowered hit, particularly storm. The game is quickly becoming haves and have-nots. Not everyone is going to grind a dungeon, eg, waterworks, to get their gear or go on the endless slog to get enough fossils to make the crafted gear. My daughter does not have the patience to fight Sylster for the 30th time to get her gear. I do. I help kids all the time with gear I wouldn't wear in DS much less Zafaria or Avalon. Making a dual system of quests would help, but it doesn't address the deeper problem of resist as a percentage. There are wizards throughout the spiral with 100% resist to both fire and storm. That essentially shuts out 2 classes from pvp. It also means they can waltz through the pve portion of the game with no challenge at all from bosses like the Bog Witch or the Jabberwock. Prisms are utterly ineffective in matches and bosses don't use them. I like Nesogra's idea, but until Everyone's resist is capped I won't be going back to ranked matches with either fire or storm and I will still be looking at other games to pursue.

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2425
This is be best idea I have seen yet that would fix a lot of issues that have risen in the game.

I have lost friends due to the turn in difficulty the game has taken as a whole and I have slowed the progress of my own wizards as well because of it.

Nesogra has explained it so well that it makes it easier for most of us to understand that the division between PvE and PvP is not what it appeared to be. The problems are in the game itself.

Yes, players are getting frustrated and leaving because the are not able to advance to that next level or world.

KI, Nesogra has given you the answer to all of this. It would be a shame to lose players from either side whether they are hardcore or casual. For many (casual players) the game has become like a second job. This would let those players back in the game for the very reasons they started playing in the first place.