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Threatening to Quit, causes changes?

AuthorMessage
Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
KI, it has come to my attention, that it seems, the only way to get anything changed around here is by threatening to quit the game?

I have taken pride and defended the honor of KI, only to find myself wondering now, if threats and complaining is truly the way to act?

PvP players whine and complain when spells are overpowered to them, for the most part, this is just a large debate that goes back and forth and usually nothing is changed.

Once in a while though, KI surprises us with a change.

Pierce was taken to 0 pips.
Cleanse ward was taken to 0 pips.
Earthquake has had too many changes to state them all.
Bolt had a major overhaul.
Now, Guardian Spirit has been changed to 15% heal.

Sirens, Healing Current, & Chimera were changed in Test, so that is different to me than when it makes it to the live game, as that is what test realm is designed to do.

It is for feedback, thoughts, ideas, and to see what the community thinks before it's release to the live realm.

Bad Juju was changed in test realm also, before it hit live realm, but did anyone listen to the feedback or suggestions on this spell?

I am really getting frustrated that people who are Fire & Myth Warlords with 1200 to 1300 rank, can complain and threaten to quit and get spells reduced and changed, yet, when the rest of the community makes suggestions, we are ignored?

Is Fire and Myth supposed to be Superior? Are they supposed to have all the tools for 1v1 pvp while the rest of the schools have to have the perfect strategy, get lucky, and deal with whatever KI throws at them?

These are my suggestions of spells that need to be changed, to not only make the schools more balanced, but to bring more fun to the entire PvP & PvE community.

Storm:
Disarmament needs to be changed to 0 pip cost.
Healing Current needs to be 200, 400, or 800 heart for 3 pips.

Ice:
Steal ward needs to be changed to 1 pip cost.
Fire and Storm resistance needs to be lowered a bit and given Ice accuracy in return.

Life:
Since Guardian spirit has been nerfed, it should aslo be reduced to 4 pips. Life should also be given either a 4 pip attack all spell, or a DoT spell.

Myth:
Shift needs to be changed to 1 pip cost.
Dimension Shift needs to be changed to 2 pip cost.

Death:
Empower needs to be 0 pip cost for 2 pips & moon Damage.
Dark pact needs to be 1 pip cost for +30% blade & moon damage.
Bad Juju needs to be 2 pip cost & moon damage.
Sacrifice needs to be 3 pip cost & moon damage.
Death should be given a 4 pip attack all spell.

I don't think it is fair if KI only listens to those that threaten to quit. Balance between schools should be taken seriously, but it is rather ignored, that or only changed to where it benefits Fire & Myth or the upper echelon of PvP Warlords, which is obvious to anyone who pays attention to the PvP Leader Boards, where Fire & Myth have been above everyone since the beginning.

Tools have been given to Ice which brought them to the top, Balance has no shield, so they have not been lacking either, but the rest of the schools, have not been given any thought or attention. Every school should be given the same considerations be it 1v1 pvp or group pvp!

Thank you for your time. I would prefer not to fill out a resignation, but who knows, if that is the only way to make changes, as a dedicated fan to the cause, I might have to resort to such actions.

Squire
Apr 11, 2010
575
Threatening to quit for a change in the game is such an ungrateful thing to do. What does it say to others when you threaten to leave for not getting your way? There have been a bunch of threads like that. It is very ugly to see.

Your last paragraph reminded me of something I once brought up in an old post:

First you:
"Balance between schools should be taken seriously, but it is rather ignored, which is obvious to anyone who pays attention to the PvP Leader Boards, where Fire & Myth have been above everyone since the beginning.

Balance has no shield, so they have not been lacking either, but the rest of the schools, have not been given any thought or attention."

Now me:
"Balance, fire and myth seem to be the only schools that KI doesn't mess up. They are fine as they are" (This can be found in my "why doesn't anyone complain about myth" thread in PvP, last page)

I'm not sure if I can agree entirely with your assumption that KI has changed or "nerfed" or however you want to define it, spells merely because of complaints because I'm not as active as I used to be, nor will I get any better in attention as my priorities are shifting, so I will hold some skepticism to that claim, but if anything I do know how closely you follow things. I just lack confidence in how certain you are in why KI makes the choices they do.

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
958
Darthjt,

I agree with you to some degree, but then on the other hand, let me ask you this.
When the whinners cried over Judgement, shatter (and I cried a lot on this spell), etc and none of it was changed, I never saw KI budge. They never altered course at all, Judgement is still the same, Shatter is still a thorn in my side.
When people first started screaming about Skeleton Dragon when it hit live, how many changes were made, not one.
I'm not going to go on and on with this, but everyone has the idea by now.

KI makes changes, to items that really affect and unbalance the game.
As you yourself said, we don't know where KI is taking the game, and therefore we do know how things should be changed.
How can you build a Gas Station, if you don't know where the road will be built? We don't know where KI's road will be built, so how can we really expect our suggestions to be accepted by KI?

Just my thought,
Joe.

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2737
I'm pretty sure they don't make changes based on threats of quitting, maybe over the volume of complaints but not the prospect of quitting. Numerous individuals have threaten to quit Wizard101 over their disatisfication of the matching up in PvP, but that has never been addressed. Others have threaten to quit based off the enemy AI or their "cheats," but the enemies have only been getting stronger.

Squire
Jan 21, 2010
571
What is with this moon damage kick? We necromancers are given a choice. We hurt ourselves or use up a turn and throw up a shield, then we get to pretend that we are balance wizards with and emergency heal spell. Yes we can protect ourselves, but that takes planning and uses a turn. If a party member gets critted on we may very well take full damage from a sacrifice to bring them back. If the cost/penalty damage is changed to moon damage I can't protect myself. I admit that changing the self inflicted damage, from death to moon damage, would stop my gear from boosting that damage.
You have simplified everything! I don't put up death shields and wast valuable turns! Healing and buffing my teammates is a no brainer! You have just made my Necromancer a great support character! I doubt that balance wizards would be pleased. You also dilute, water down, the flavor of the death school.
As a necromancer I can do many things other schools do. I have to pay extra costs to do those things, costs that could get me knocked out. I have to make choices. I have to decide weather it is worth it to heal or buff my teammate right now. Or if I need to throw up a death shield first, because a critical sacrifice would put me in the red zone.

I guess we could change the damage to moon damage and dumb things down. I mean, thinking is painful, and no one likes making even slightly difficult decisions. Don't we all play our games on auto pilot?


As for empower if it cost zero pips it becomes a slightly worse copy of that sun school spell that reduces the cost of a spell by two pips.... they would have practically the same effect, and they would stack together... and I could have eight copies of empower.... I already have a 101% power pip chance. so three power pips and four regular pips by turn three? If I have a mastery amulet that is ten pips worth of death spells, or another school's spells, by turn three. I am sure no one thinks this is over powered. I guess we could increase empower's damage to 1.000. But then we are making ourselves into fast, fragile, storm wizard clones. Storm wizards are already whining that they are losing their flavor to ice and fire. (They are right, so why make it worse?)

If you can present a valid argument, I am interested in debating the issue.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
zebulous wrote:
What is with this moon damage kick?


Well, for starters, any damage self spell that death uses, not only costs death pips, but is boosted by death's damage boost, on top of all that, it uses any death blades to further boost that damage.

We necromancers are given a choice. We hurt ourselves or use up a turn and throw up a shield, then we get to pretend that we are balance wizards with and emergency heal spell. Yes we can protect ourselves, but that takes planning and uses a turn. If a party member gets critted on we may very well take full damage from a sacrifice to bring them back. If the cost/penalty damage is changed to moon damage I can't protect myself.

Actually, yes you can still protect yourself, but only with a tower shield. It is bad enough that these spells cost death pips, now damage too, and blades on top of all that? Is it worth it? I love being a necromancer, it is one of my favorite schools. I am also a PvP Warlord with that Necromancer, but I still know when a school is getting the short end of the stick.

I admit that changing the self inflicted damage, from death to moon damage, would stop my gear from boosting that damage.
You have simplified everything! I don't put up death shields and wast valuable turns! Healing and buffing my teammates is a no brainer! You have just made my Necromancer a great support character!


It can mean that Death would be a great supporting role, or it can mean that Death will be even better in any situation, Solo or Multi-player.

I doubt that balance wizards would be pleased. You also dilute, water down, the flavor of the death school.

Balance is the best of both worlds, Balance can be a great solo or a great support player, nothing is wrong with that. Death can be great solo, but has too great a cost for some of their so called "Benefits". Death seriously has to time and choose what to do, when to do it, if it's ok to do it, while no other school has to make these choices. If Death is to heal, it uses all of death's precious blades, all of them, so much for all that time stacking, it causes serious damage to death, unless, you take the extra time and have a death shield handy, while time could be of the essence. Then you can still critical, which is good for heals, but bad for death. I don't see how any of this takes away from the flavor of being a necromancer.

As a necromancer I can do many things other schools do. I have to pay extra costs to do those things, costs that could get me knocked out. I have to make choices. I have to decide weather it is worth it to heal or buff my teammate right now. Or if I need to throw up a death shield first, because a critical sacrifice would put me in the red zone.

I guess we could change the damage to moon damage and dumb things down. I mean, thinking is painful, and no one likes making even slightly difficult decisions. Don't we all play our games on auto pilot?


I don't see how this is dumbing down the Death school or making Death an Auto-pilot as you say? So what, all the other schools are auto-pilot and death is not, because death always has to think if their spell is worth it or not?


As for empower if it cost zero pips it becomes a slightly worse copy of that sun school spell that reduces the cost of a spell by two pips....


Empower is nothing like Elucidate. First of all, Elucidate is an enchantment that reduces the pip cost of spells. Spells can't be enchanted with anything else if Elucidate is used. Secondly, Empower would be 0 pips and give 2 pips while taking damage. As it currently stands, Empower takes 1 power pips, as even you said so yourself, you have 101% ppc, so 1 power pip or 2 pips for 3 pips? So, for damage, cost of blades, you gain 1 white pip? Do the math.

they would have practically the same effect, and they would stack together... and I could have eight copies of empower.... I already have a 101% power pip chance. so three power pips and four regular pips by turn three? If I have a mastery amulet that is ten pips worth of death spells, or another school's spells, by turn three. I am sure no one thinks this is over powered. I guess we could increase empower's damage to 1.000. But then we are making ourselves into fast, fragile, storm wizard clones. Storm wizards are already whining that they are losing their flavor to ice and fire. (They are right, so why make it worse?)

Well, considering the damage could be increased, yes, that is possible, however, not all schools have 100% power pip chance, actually, there are only 3. Of those 3, if they chose to leave the Waterworks era, then they will have accuracy and critical rather than power pips. However, most wont trade. So, yes, it is possible to get pips, but it still cost you the rounds, no shields, no blades.


If you can present a valid argument, I am interested in debating the issue.


Thank you for your thoughts, most of what you had to say was interesting. I don't see how you think any of this would be overpowered. There is already clothing that gives Empower as moon damage for 0 pips for 2 pips. This is already in effect, but they have not changed it for deaths spell. I think it was more or less a trial version?

I don't see as any of these changes as overpowering any school.

Hero
Jun 08, 2009
793
darthjt wrote:
KI, it has come to my attention, that it seems, the only way to get anything changed around here is by threatening to quit the game?

I have taken pride and defended the honor of KI, only to find myself wondering now, if threats and complaining is truly the way to act?

PvP players whine and complain when spells are overpowered to them, for the most part, this is just a large debate that goes back and forth and usually nothing is changed.

Once in a while though, KI surprises us with a change.

Pierce was taken to 0 pips.
Cleanse ward was taken to 0 pips.
Earthquake has had too many changes to state them all.
Bolt had a major overhaul.
Now, Guardian Spirit has been changed to 15% heal.

Sirens, Healing Current, & Chimera were changed in Test, so that is different to me than when it makes it to the live game, as that is what test realm is designed to do.

It is for feedback, thoughts, ideas, and to see what the community thinks before it's release to the live realm.

Bad Juju was changed in test realm also, before it hit live realm, but did anyone listen to the feedback or suggestions on this spell?

I am really getting frustrated that people who are Fire & Myth Warlords with 1200 to 1300 rank, can complain and threaten to quit and get spells reduced and changed, yet, when the rest of the community makes suggestions, we are ignored?

Is Fire and Myth supposed to be Superior? Are they supposed to have all the tools for 1v1 pvp while the rest of the schools have to have the perfect strategy, get lucky, and deal with whatever KI throws at them?

These are my suggestions of spells that need to be changed, to not only make the schools more balanced, but to bring more fun to the entire PvP & PvE community.

Storm:
Disarmament needs to be changed to 0 pip cost.
Healing Current needs to be 200, 400, or 800 heart for 3 pips.

Ice:
Steal ward needs to be changed to 1 pip cost.
Fire and Storm resistance needs to be lowered a bit and given Ice accuracy in return.

Life:
Since Guardian spirit has been nerfed, it should aslo be reduced to 4 pips. Life should also be given either a 4 pip attack all spell, or a DoT spell.

Myth:
Shift needs to be changed to 1 pip cost.
Dimension Shift needs to be changed to 2 pip cost.

Death:
Empower needs to be 0 pip cost for 2 pips & moon Damage.
Dark pact needs to be 1 pip cost for +30% blade & moon damage.
Bad Juju needs to be 2 pip cost & moon damage.
Sacrifice needs to be 3 pip cost & moon damage.
Death should be given a 4 pip attack all spell.

I don't think it is fair if KI only listens to those that threaten to quit. Balance between schools should be taken seriously, but it is rather ignored, that or only changed to where it benefits Fire & Myth or the upper echelon of PvP Warlords, which is obvious to anyone who pays attention to the PvP Leader Boards, where Fire & Myth have been above everyone since the beginning.

Tools have been given to Ice which brought them to the top, Balance has no shield, so they have not been lacking either, but the rest of the schools, have not been given any thought or attention. Every school should be given the same considerations be it 1v1 pvp or group pvp!

Thank you for your time. I would prefer not to fill out a resignation, but who knows, if that is the only way to make changes, as a dedicated fan to the cause, I might have to resort to such actions.
Well, from what I see, not everyone who quits gets their way. Half the time they only want attention.
Now,
I am a Diviner. I do practically exclusively 1v1. And I am good at it. I've brought down Warlords of all schools. Ice is my only problem spot. Myth, Fire, and Death I manage to fell fast enough.

With my somewhat-impressive crudentials, here is my opinion: I agree with the Ice changes. I agree with the Death changes, though a new Card, acquired through hidden means, grants Death a 5-pip AoE DoT. Life I don't agree with. Myth I agree with. Storm I disagree with. You left out Fire, actually, and I think Balance too.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
Darth I meant to post here much sooner. My apologies to you, real life is busy so I forgot.

I really liked your ideas here. It was refreshing to see ideas. :)

I would dearly love the 4 pip AoE for my Life. My friend and I quested through AV. Her Myth was an amazing sight to see with her lethal Frogs. I kept telling her I would love an equivalent spell.

Thanks for the time and effort you put into this post.

Megan

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2425
I would like to invite everyone that has posted here or that will to please visit the following link on Central.

http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290895

Megan and myself have already been there and are in support of reuniting the community.

Megan and I both have voiced our opinions regarding the most recent issue of GS. This has gotten way out of hand. Neither of us will debate it any further and have come to a complete turn around by looking at it from both sides of the fence. A fence that should not be there.

Please just take a deep breath and open your mind to what some of are seeing that even we didn't until now.

The above link is not for debating or arguing. It is one of several threads that will be started to try to find a solution. KI is already and was working on the next world before the release of Avalon. Hopefully before the next release. This community needs to be strong as a whole. This is a family game and it will soon start losing that if we don't help KI fix it now.

Mastermind
Jun 23, 2010
345
goldendragon18 wrote:
I would like to invite everyone that has posted here or that will to please visit the following link on Central.

http://www.wizard101central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290895

Megan and myself have already been there and are in support of reuniting the community.

Megan and I both have voiced our opinions regarding the most recent issue of GS. This has gotten way out of hand. Neither of us will debate it any further and have come to a complete turn around by looking at it from both sides of the fence. A fence that should not be there.

Please just take a deep breath and open your mind to what some of are seeing that even we didn't until now.

The above link is not for debating or arguing. It is one of several threads that will be started to try to find a solution. KI is already and was working on the next world before the release of Avalon. Hopefully before the next release. This community needs to be strong as a whole. This is a family game and it will soon start losing that if we don't help KI fix it now.


I have come see game balance is the issue here. It does not change my opinion that GS being nerfed hurt PvE. Just I have come to understand GS in it's original form hurt PvP.

My hope is RESPECT can be brought into this debate. I posted another reply to QBB's original thread that better explains where I am.

Megan

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2425
mom2mykidzcrcj wrote:


I have come see game balance is the issue here. It does not change my opinion that GS being nerfed hurt PvE. Just I have come to understand GS in it's original form hurt PvP.

My hope is RESPECT can be brought into this debate. I posted another reply to QBB's original thread that better explains where I am.

Megan


I think we both agree that nerfing GS did hurt PvE, but we have both been able to look at this from both sides of the fence and have come to realize that a good many of the PvP players that we both know, don't do it for superiority. They play because they like it and have a very good grasp on what is unbalancing the whole game. It has just taken some of us a while and an extensive "debate". Hopefully, we can find some solutions that are acceptable to everyone.

I also read your post in reply to QBB.

Fallon WinterLeaf.