What makes a good PVP 1v1 school, or can the schools be graded from Best to poor.
I have seen many say that all schools are the same, some say they are just different and the same in pvp. Some have said that all schools are equal, and I can agree with that to some degree, but not in 1v1.
All schools have advantages and disadvantages, but the disadvantages unbalance 1v1 more than the advantages.
I know this has been gone over many times, but I really feel that it needs to be looked at in simple terms. This will allow us to see clearly what many of the discussions have been about.
To keep this simple, lets add grades. Ok, I agree, it should be more than just 3, maybe up to 5 or even 10, but I want to keep this simple. I have also not address ppips, accuracty, and other items.
3 = Real Advantage. 2 = Average 1 = poor
Basics... AOE = Attack all Enemy. DOT = Damage over time. ppip = Power pips.
Next, what we will grade on...
1. Resist. 2. Health. 3. Damage bubble, 2 pips. 4. Low pip AOE (to kill minions and do damage) 5. Low pip DOT or spell (to remove shields) 6. Minion. 7. Strength of Attack spells. 8. A way to attack hard from Second place. 9. Main Attacks with after effect. 10. ? critical / blocked, left out.
Resist.
Fire - 2 Myth - 2. Ice - 3 Death - 2 Balance - 2 Life - 2 Storm - 1 -------------
Health.
Fire - 2. Myth - 2. Ice - 3 Death - 2 Balance - 3 Life - 3 Storm - 1 -------------
Damage bubble, 2 pips.
Fire - 3. Myth - 3 Ice - 3 Death - 2 Balance - 1 Life - 1 Storm - 3. -----------
Low Pip AOE.
Fire - 3. Myth - 3 Ice - 3 Death - 1 Balance - 3 Life - 1 Storm - 1. ----------
Low pip DOT (or way to remove shields).
Fire - 3. Myth - 3. Ice - 2 Death - 2 Balance - 1 Life - 1 Storm - 1 ---------
Minion (health and damage)
Fire - 2. Myth - 3. Ice - 3 Death - 1 (because it an x pip). Balance - 2 Life - 2 Storm - 1 ---------
Strength of Attack spells
Fire - 3. Myth - 2 Ice - 2 Death - 2 Balance - 2 Life - 2 Storm. - 3 --------
A way to attack hard from Second place
Fire - 3. Myth - 3 Ice -2 Death - 3 Balance - 1 Life - 1 Storm - 2
--------
Main Attacks with after effect.
Fire - 3. Myth - 3. Ice - 2 Death - 2 Balance - 1 Life - 3 Storm - 3 --------
Critical and Critical block,
Fire. (ignored because of the new Wands, etc). Myth. (Storm and Fire may have an edge here). Ice Death Balance Life Storm. --------
Totals for each school...
Fire - 24. Myth - 24. Ice - 23. Death - 16. Balance - 16. Life - 16. Storm - 16.
You can see why Fire, Myth, and Ice are at the top. Also why Ice is considered to be in the top three, but not the top two. You can also see why Death, Balance, and Life are often mixed in their positions, when ranked. Storm is like a bomb, that can take you out at any time. Their Health is the only think that really holds them back from being up above Death, Balance and Life. They are ranked like this for a reason, they are not equal in all aspects of the game, imo.
Your list and grading idea isn't bad. But there are some questions that need to be asked: What level are you basing this on? People will fight at different levels and hang on at different levels. Some schools do not have the advantage across all levels. Some may have fared better in early levels but may have suffered in later levels with updates as other schools have more or less caught up or were granted that one needed spell to become a real competitor in the arena.
There is also my gripe with how you are viewing the bubbles. It is too biased to assume that only damage bubbles will give you an advantage and grading at just damage isn't entirely fair. I've had tricky spots where the Sanctuary life bubble and Doom and Gloom have forced me to work around it, sometimes I would fail, mostly because of doom and gloom more-so than sanctuary.
Everything else I say is pretty spot on. But we need to look at the levels this is all based on.
Also, Ice's low hit AOE is not very strong to be considered threatening at all unless it is enchanted. Blizzard is extremely soft for a 4 pip AOE. Ice deserves a 2 there. And storm should get a higher grade for their low pip AOE. Tempest can be pretty powerful because of Storms innate boost from their gear. And it can be activated at any time they want and at any pip they want because it is an X spell. Enchanting that, I've seen storm hit for 600 with just a power pip. They definitely deserve a 3 for low pip AOE despite the drawback that Tempest will drain them of ammo.
Your minion rating, health, it's all looking good though. I know you want this to be simple, but there is still personal work to be done since I'm going to toss in one other question:
How well can each school make up for their weaknesses by training in other schools? This too is important, and in this I say certain schools with the most advantage here are Ice and Balance since they have some great defensive spells already handed to them. Myth has to work the hardest I think, to overcome it's medium stats and because nothing in their spell set compensates to make up for any of their lack of strong defenses, meaning no drain heals, no innate heals, no low cost defensive spells, only time buying stun spells.
Hmm.... However, ice deserves a 4 for resist and health! Its so high! They are the only school that can have 50%+ resist and still good other stats. I mean, yes, other schools can pvp with up to 53% resist, (18% if you do it right with the pet and have USEFUL selfish talents and 35% from pvp gear) but, lets face it, their boost? SQUAT. Health? SQUAT. Ice still has amazing and ridiculous health and good boost. (30%ish)
(DoT gives extra points) Shield Remover- Fire- 3 Myth- 3 Ice- 2 Death- 3 Balance- 2 (Hydra can only be halved or 1 head will do normal damage) Life- 1 Storm- 2 (Wild Bolt)
Minion (The spells, damage, health, and defense are all important)- Fire- 3 (Covers up Fire's weakness) Myth- 3 Ice- 3 (Covers up Ice's weakness) Death- 1 Balance- 2 (Doesn't cover up any weaknesses but very useful) Life- 2 (Same reason as Balance's) Storm- 1 (Sometimes selfish, sometimes not, covers up weakness though)
So in order... Fire, Ice 1 Myth 6 Storm 1 Balance 2 Death 3 Life
The numbers were for how much one level was above the other. Btw, these are my opinions, but I think you have the correct one. (I just like judging, it's fun).
I can't disagree with the post, because Joe put some good arguments; however, I think Corbin brings up a good point about values and perspective. Joe rated Storm as a 3 for main attacks with after effects, but there are plenty of wizards on these very forums hating those after effects.
Also, there wasn't a ranking of 1 in the strength of attack spells category, so there isn't a median or average to judge from (hence Joe's perception that no one school is absolutely horrible at attacking). So does 3 represent the highest damage or the quickest win (there is a difference)? Because Death was rated as 2, but Death can generate some serious damage, all at the cost of many, many rounds and pips.
Quote"Your list and grading idea isn't bad. But there are some questions that need to be asked: What level are you basing this on? People will fight at different levels and hang on at different levels. Some schools do not have the advantage across all levels. Some may have fared better in early levels but may have suffered in later levels with updates as other schools have more or less caught up or were granted that one needed spell to become a real competitor in the arena."
>> I know, I should have listed more, I was thinking of Level 70, as that is what I pvp the most. I fully agree, the grading would be completely different at different levels. Plus, to really show this in any detail, I would have had to add more, but I really wanted to just show the separation of what makes a good school in 1v1 at the upper levels. ---------------------
Quote"There is also my gripe with how you are viewing the bubbles. It is too biased to assume that only damage bubbles will give you an advantage and grading at just damage isn't entirely fair. I've had tricky spots where the Sanctuary life bubble and Doom and Gloom have forced me to work around it, sometimes I would fail, mostly because of doom and gloom more-so than sanctuary. "
>> This area was hard to grade, but I was thinking that Doom and Gloom can be used against you in some cases. Once the tables are turned, you can be in real trouble. While on a damage boost, that cannot be the case (except maybe with Balance). I kind of ignored Sanctuary, as it is used so very little, from what I see. Most life use Doom and Gloom, or the TOL to get rid of Bubbles. I do agree, Sanctuary can be used, if the Life just wants to outlive you, and drag the game on for an enternity. ------------------------- On Ice's low hit AOE, yes it's weak, but it is normally on Gar or Colossal, so it does usually take out the minion, in many cases. If a second one is tossed out, again it is doing damage to both. Plus, it's not an X spell, or limited like Scarecrow, at 7 pips. This was what I thought when writing this up.
I would like to say that I just wrote this off the top of my head, and didn't spend a lot of time thinking it over. I was just trying to get an idea out, to try to give a basis on some of the comments that have been made in the past and why they were said.
On Tempest, the reason I didn't grade this higher, was its an X spell, and therefore harder to use in all cases. Now, on the storm bubble, you got me on that one.
i find pvp to be unfair i PvP with a friend and when we won we got like 7 points but when we lost we lose 20-30 points. This is unfair Why does this happen? is it something to do with level or ranking?
i find pvp to be unfair i PvP with a friend and when we won we got like 7 points but when we lost we lose 20-30 points. This is unfair Why does this happen? is it something to do with level or ranking?
well i think this does have to do with the ranking, what rank are you? because if a high rank lost to a lower rank, it makes sense to loose more points right? you just lost against a low rank, or if you battle a rank lower than you and you win, maybe it wasn't a "tough match" rankwise so it gives you only a little amount of points, and when you defeat someone your rank or higher rank than you, it makes sense to get more points right? that's my guess.
i find pvp to be unfair i PvP with a friend and when we won we got like 7 points but when we lost we lose 20-30 points. This is unfair Why does this happen? is it something to do with level or ranking?
Same things happen to me sometimes, like we lost 15 points, winners gain. We win, 7 points, they lose 7 points. NOT happy.
i find pvp to be unfair i PvP with a friend and when we won we got like 7 points but when we lost we lose 20-30 points. This is unfair Why does this happen? is it something to do with level or ranking?
Hi Jordan080,
Lots of us think the points system is unfair, the way it's setup. I have never really looked into how the points are given, but I can say this.
If I beat someone that is rated higher than me, I get more points, and they lose more points. If I best someone lower than me, I get less points and they lose less points. I keep track of who I fight in Ranked, and the points gained or lost, in each battle. So the rank and level is tied together when you go into PvP. Just be careful how long you stay in the que, the longer you are in it, the more likely you are to get a huge mismatch.
(I just like judging, it's fun).
