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PvP complainers

2
AuthorMessage
Survivor
Feb 02, 2011
34
Lion359 wrote:
karate345 wrote:
Lion359 wrote:
So tell me, what will you do when you get your Wizard to Rank 70, and KI will not have the next world ready for a year or so?


I'll continue with my myth level 7 wizard, or just do waterworks plus TofH for gear, i only pvp if my friend asked to 2v2 with me, that's it


Karate345,

Ok, no issue, but when all six of your wizards get to level 70, and they have all the gear they need what will you do?
I have four at Level 70, and one more close to it. My life is still low, but I don't want to level him up. I have a second account, but they are for low level PvP, and I don't want to level them up.
So once my last wizard gets to level 70, I have nothing to do but PvP or quit the game.
I am and will be one of the PvP complainers you wrote about, what choice do I have? If I see a real issue, then I have to bring it to KI's attention.
Just like the two that have hijacked your thread (lolz) above.

Joe,
Joseph LionHunter.


hmm good point but i level up slow. Plus i like pet training/hatching and crafting ( want to make teleporters :D ).

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
kodiboy wrote:
Darthjt, I just have one question:

If Ice already has 90% resist (including that treasure fortify), how will a Storm DoT help in the first place? If you reduce the amount of resist for Ice towards Storm [and Fire, which no one has seemed to complain about, odd...] I'll understand that. But, how come no Fire people have come with an issue about it; I know that they have DoT spells, but does it really make that much of a difference..?

Please explain.


That is simple to answer! When you start putting boosts on, like storm blade, amulet storm blade, treasure storm blade, elemental blade, treasure elemental blade, even if there is a shield or 2, the damage will be boosted enough and not all taken out by the shields and resistance.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
jojowild23 wrote:
darthjt wrote:

Oh, well, if Solstice64 said it, then it must be a fact!

Granted, Solstice64 knows more about this game than most of the people that post on here and has some very good insights and ideas, however, Solstice is not right about everything.


Solstice isn't the only one I've read break pip efficiency down that way. I was just using the best example from this forum that I could remember.

darthjt wrote:

1st off, Yes, DoT spells do have more power than any other spell. This has been evident since fire elf to heck hound and so on.

Secondly, you say Dr. Von's monster does a pixie's worth of healing? It heals 50% of damage cast back. That is not a specific amount, it is a percentage amount. It can heal you anywhere from a pixie, to a 500,000 health. How is that for a secondary effect.


1) Fire Elf does 260 damage, lower than the average damage of Storm Bats: 265 (245-285). How do you figure more powerful? No, not always the case. Once again, you compare Heckhound (an X-Pip spell) to fixed pip spells and when you compare a spell that does damage based on a relative amount of pips to a spell that has fixed pips, like you originally did with Tempest Storm Lord and Sirens, things become, well...very relative. However, you are right about Dot having more power when you look at, say, Fire Dragon vs. Storm Lord. On the other hand, Frostbite vs. Stormzilla (both rank 5 spells, if you want to get technical)? No comparison: Less powerful DoT. All of this reinforces my original point that damage per pip is far from an exact science. And by the way, thank you for putting in your own words, a possible reason why Rain of Fire is more powerful Sirens! You've come a long way! Lol

You are comparing Ice, the lowest damage school to Storm, the highest damage school and you want us to take you seriously? Fire elf, is extremely high powered in comparison to all other schools. Again, storm is supposed to have more powerful spells, since it lacks health, accuracy, and resistance.

Do you not know the differences in the schools? Did you not read them when creating a wizard? Do I have to teach you the basics?

2) Not stacking the deck, though, the card value of Dr Von's heal is slightly over a pixie.


Yeah, because a pixie can easily heal you for 500,000 health. You are right, what was I thinking?

darthjt wrote:

Since you want to argue everything JoJoWild, let me make my point perfectly clear.


I actually don't. I just don't think you're right about Storm being nerfed.

You actually don't think, or dont argue everything? I would say both, considering your rebuttal.

darthjt wrote:
You want to add in boosts, effects, etc?


No, not as badly as you wanna break storm damage spells down to their bare bones basic damage per pip in order to complain about Ice's Gear (deck stacking) Resist and the spamming of Storm shields (oh, look, more deck stacking in your favor.) My only point is, you can't look at it only one way, which you seem to want to, and, in fact, did many times in this post. But let's see what you come up with...


I was thinking I was talking to someone with some type of intelligence that understood the break down of spells. I was thinking that maybe you could actually see the full picture. Well, there is one thing I was wrong about.

darthjt wrote:
Fine. Do the math on this equation!

Tempest + Colossal with 4 Pips!
Tempest + Colossal with 2 Pips!
Tempest + Colossal with 2 Pips!
Tempest + Colossal with 1 Pip!

How much Damage do you get? How many storm shields can you take out with this? How many Critical chances do you get?

Now, Use Sirens + Storm Blade + Enchanted Storm Blade + Colossal!
I am allowing the use of Blades with 0 pip cost as it will be the same amount of turns as the Tempests with Colossal enchantments.


*yawns*

I take it your yawn is because you know I am right and you have Nothing else to say? You should have stopped a long time ago, but then, some people just never learn.

darthjt wrote:
Now, how much Damage do you get? How many storm shields can storm face and how many will this 1 attack take out? How many chances does storm get to hit critical?

Which would be more effective? Which would do more damage?
You want to stack the deck, I just showed you, that I am the master of stacking a deck.


That's nice.

darthjt wrote:
You obviously care more about your Balance than any other school, which leaves you biased and not objective.


Yeah, except for nothing in this post has anything to do with the Balance school. I was kidding with you about the tower shields not existing thing. Lighten up. Again and again you missed the point that I have nothing against Storm and don't want it to be nerfed in any way. I think the kind of changes (I'm guessing) you want to see in the Storm school (DoT, increase of power, etc...) would not only effect Balance negatively but also Life and Death and maybe Myth (iffy on that one) as these are the schools that don't have as high or wide in-school means of shielding that Storm DoT.

Balance is, in fact, a better to school acquire an objective point of view of the schools than any other. Look at the elemental schools: Constantly comparing themselves to each other in an attempt to prove who's better, who's more powerful. Constant need to be better, have better spells. Constant complaining between Storm Fire and Ice over whose spell is better more powerful etc. On and on it goes, never stopping.

Whereas the young Balance student, the first time s/he sees their Sandstorm in comparison to Tempest...no, you don't even need to go that far...Meteor Strike! Well, let's just say, they know earlier than anybody else comparing themselves to other schools will get them nowhere.

darthjt wrote:
I am done debating this with you, because you refuse to keep an open mind and allow your personal feelings to cloud your judgement.


Thank God :D Ok, I'm going to get let my personal feelings cloud my judgement some place else then


Ok, now compare Meteor strike that has a 70% shield, to a Sandstorm that has no shield! Which is more powerful?

I rest my case and unless you actually bring one, let's end this, because you have not stated any facts that you can back up.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
kodiboy wrote:
Darthjt, I just have one question:

If Ice already has 90% resist (including that treasure fortify), how will a Storm DoT help in the first place? If you reduce the amount of resist for Ice towards Storm [and Fire, which no one has seemed to complain about, odd...] I'll understand that. But, how come no Fire people have come with an issue about it; I know that they have DoT spells, but does it really make that much of a difference..?

Please explain.


When you add a treasure fortify to a 70% storm resisting ice, it actually works out to an effective resistance of 76%, not 90%. It will, however, shield up to 20% of the new pierce effect since that is calculated in an additive fashion vs. a multiple fashion. To answer your question, a DoT is extremely useful for removing shields, etc, but storm does already have some options in that regard including a pet spell.

Explorer
Mar 15, 2011
89

Actually, your post made no sense initially. You were initially trying to prove...what? How inferior Sirens is as an improvement over Tempest than Storm Lord was over Tempest? Kind of a convoluted idea, since Tempest is an X pip spell variable to the storm wizards number of pips and especially considering how Storm doesn't have a very high power pip percentage.

darthjt wrote:
Actually Karate, I totally agree with you.

If you look at the possible damage between Tempest and Storm Lord for 7 or 8 pips, you can see that it is quite a difference.

Now, if you compare the damage between Tempest and Sirens for 9 or 10 pips, you can easily see that there is not much difference in the damage, you just get the added effects and a new spell to watch.

People wonder why I post the way I do and this is one of the very reasons, simply because people post, whine, and complain, without using any facts or mathematical figures to back up their complaints.


Perhaps I should have taken a more direct approach, I think...

7 pip Tempest: 560 7 pip Storm Lord: 690

an 8 pip Tempest is 640 but that's using Tempest's X factor to stack the deck and Storm wizards don't have a high power pip percentage. So the diff. is either 50 or 130.

10 pip Tempest: 800 9 pip Sirens: 880
9 pip Tempest: 720 9 pip Sirens: "

difference being either 80 or 160

I believe 30 would be the operative number, across the board. This entire post was created over karate35 talking about how easily 10 damage can turn into 100 storm damage. This "not much difference" you have noticed between these spells is three times what you agreed with him/her about. And yes I know they are separate quantities, entirely but I mean comparatively. That's a glaring contradiction. Sorry.

There are some facts. I don't like being told I don't have any intelligence and can't recognize or provide facts. Most people don't. I believe I can drop it now if you don't introduce extraneous material to contradict what I've said above.

Another fact is that this entire thread has been an extended exercise in your failure to admit that Sirens is more base damage than any of the initial comparisons you made--at lowest by 80 points, which is still laugh out loud way greater than our magic number of 30 above. And apes karate35's 10 into 100 storm damage eight times! good grief!

Here's another fact: My friend who is Storm, she is no Arena die-hard, granted, but she does like to do her Storm in group ranked. I thought to ask her how she feels about the power of Sirens and she is loving it. It's now her favorite spell. I specifically made sure to ask if she feels underpowered with it:

"No way. The girls kill."

People and the way they feel are facts, too. Just saying.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
jojowild23 wrote:

Actually, your post made no sense initially. You were initially trying to prove...what? How inferior Sirens is as an improvement over Tempest than Storm Lord was over Tempest? Kind of a convoluted idea, since Tempest is an X pip spell variable to the storm wizards number of pips and especially considering how Storm doesn't have a very high power pip percentage.

Perhaps I should have taken a more direct approach, I think...

7 pip Tempest: 560 7 pip Storm Lord: 690

an 8 pip Tempest is 640 but that's using Tempest's X factor to stack the deck and Storm wizards don't have a high power pip percentage. So the diff. is either 50 or 130.

10 pip Tempest: 800 9 pip Sirens: 880
9 pip Tempest: 720 9 pip Sirens: "

difference being either 80 or 160

I believe 30 would be the operative number, across the board. This entire post was created over karate35 talking about how easily 10 damage can turn into 100 storm damage. This "not much difference" you have noticed between these spells is three times what you agreed with him/her about. And yes I know they are separate quantities, entirely but I mean comparatively. That's a glaring contradiction. Sorry.

There are some facts. I don't like being told I don't have any intelligence and can't recognize or provide facts. Most people don't. I believe I can drop it now if you don't introduce extraneous material to contradict what I've said above.

Another fact is that this entire thread has been an extended exercise in your failure to admit that Sirens is more base damage than any of the initial comparisons you made--at lowest by 80 points, which is still laugh out loud way greater than our magic number of 30 above. And apes karate35's 10 into 100 storm damage eight times! good grief!

Here's another fact: My friend who is Storm, she is no Arena die-hard, granted, but she does like to do her Storm in group ranked. I thought to ask her how she feels about the power of Sirens and she is loving it. It's now her favorite spell. I specifically made sure to ask if she feels underpowered with it:

"No way. The girls kill."

People and the way they feel are facts, too. Just saying.


Storm does not have to have a low power pip percentage, that is all based on preference, not factual.

If you get a sidhe staff and a pet that gives pips, storm can easily have 95% power pip chance, how exactly is that low?

Yes, tempest is an x pip spell. Now, while a blade and colossal enchanted tempest kill most mobs, it takes a bit more for bosses. It is still more beneficial to blade, blade, storm lord than it it to keep using tempest.

However, especially in PvP, it is more beneficial to either use Storm Lord or a Bunch of Tempests due to abuse of storm shields. Now, the debate of time waiting to use Sirens, vs Spam of Tempests comes in. When Tempests becomes far more powerful to keep using than simply using 1 fully bladed Sirens spell.

The difference like the original Op said, Storm was nerfed and even though only 40 damage was taken away, that damage is multiplied by many factors and means a lot of damage taken away.

Storm is still not given any DoT AoE spell and while you are firmly against storm getting this, you hate when anyone wants to nerf Balance, yet here you are, constantly wanting to nerf Storm.

Do you have any valid points?

Explorer
Mar 15, 2011
89
darthjt wrote:


The difference like the original Op said, Storm was nerfed and even though only 40 damage was taken away, that damage is multiplied by many factors and means a lot of damage taken away.

Storm is still not given any DoT AoE spell and while you are firmly against storm getting this, you hate when anyone wants to nerf Balance, yet here you are, constantly wanting to nerf Storm.

Do you have any valid points?


My only point left to make is to ask you to supply actual evidence of me constantly wanting to nerf Storm. Quit exaggerating. It doesn't impress me or anything.


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