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Balancing PvP

2
AuthorMessage
Explorer
Jul 05, 2009
54
"Balancing PvP"?? This thread, to me, is more about "powering my favorite school". Solstice64, really has a big problem with school like fire and myth. And her reasons are based solely on the "polls" and opinions that she reads on central. In the thread "efreet was made wrong", she suggested that Efreet's damage, an 8pip spell, be lowered to helephant damage. Know, i know why KI doesnt pay much attention to such suggestions. But let's get back to the topic.

Like travis said, I am tired of people wanting to make all the schools similar. They are the kind of people who forgot the questions that they were asked before they were given their schools. They forgot that each school has their own characteristics, and they are all unique. Why on earth should storm and life get a DoT spell?? That is a fire characteristic! Even now you can still read the characteristics of each school.

Here's a quote from the site (this one) that expalains: "The Fire School will train its student wizards to do damage over time. Fire Wizards pile on spells that will continually do damage to the enemy. Initially these spells will not do much damage, but they eventually stack for possible large amounts of damage in short amounts of time." that is specific to fire, you dont read that for every school. Whereas storm students learn to do great damage on a short amount of time! that is a storm characteristic! so why should all the school get the same characteristic?? If storm and life deserves a DoT damage spell, then maybe Fire deserve a 1 pip spell that can do as much damage as bolt, or bats! or maybe fire deserves a healing spell like satyr! Actually, why dont all school have DoT spells, and ALL schools have their own version of bolt, and all school have their version of satyr! how fun would that be??

Your points of view are as biased as they can be. You only make suggestions for the schools that you like, and you try to undermind the other schools (fire, myth, ice) by stating that they're overpowered. Now, as you may have noticed, I dont care what the result of poll on central is. The school are pretty well balanced to me. And i am speaking as person who have been pvp for over 2 years! You say most warlords are fire or myth, well I have seen A LOT of life warlords, ice warlords, death warlords, and balance warlords. I run onto them everyday! Because as soon as I get on w101, I pvp! mostly 1v1! that's the only reason why I play w101.

Now, there are some suggestions that I agree with. It is NOT fair that i have 109% chance of casting satyr, when life only gets 90%, and they are supposed to be good in accuracy. Storm and fire was once known for their high chance of fizzling. I honestly cannot remember the last time i fizzled in pvp. And i rarely see storm fizzle in pvp. That's gotta change! Life deserves higher accuracy rate. But the DoT spell just doesnt make sense and would go against KI's description of the schools.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
doudjy wrote:
"Balancing PvP"?? This thread, to me, is more about "powering my favorite school". Solstice64, really has a big problem with school like fire and myth. And her reasons are based solely on the "polls" and opinions that she reads on central. In the thread "efreet was made wrong", she suggested that Efreet's damage, an 8pip spell, be lowered to helephant damage. Know, i know why KI doesnt pay much attention to such suggestions. But let's get back to the topic.


You obviously dislike me, though I wish you wouldn't express it. It just makes it look like you are only disagreeing with me because we are enemies or something.

My opinion isn't soley based on the polls or opinion I read, its actually based on me pvping, me pvping in tournaments, the most common results of tournaments, and how much skill it takes to get that school to warlord. I just use other peoples opinion or polls to try to convince other people.

I thought it was funny when you said I have something against myth and fire, even though I have my own myth wizard.

doudjy wrote:
Like travis said, I am tired of people wanting to make all the schools similar. They are the kind of people who forgot the questions that they were asked before they were given their schools. They forgot that each school has their own characteristics, and they are all unique. Why on earth should storm and life get a DoT spell?? That is a fire characteristic! Even now you can still read the characteristics of each school.


Which would you rather have, a balanced arena with schools that are more simaller, or a top dog school but with each school being more different.

doudjy wrote:
Here's a quote from the site (this one) that expalains: "The Fire School will train its student wizards to do damage over time. Fire Wizards pile on spells that will continually do damage to the enemy. Initially these spells will not do much damage, but they eventually stack for possible large amounts of damage in short amounts of time." that is specific to fire, you dont read that for every school. Whereas storm students learn to do great damage on a short amount of time! that is a storm characteristic! so why should all the school get the same characteristic?? If storm and life deserves a DoT damage spell, then maybe Fire deserve a 1 pip spell that can do as much damage as bolt, or bats! or maybe fire deserves a healing spell like satyr! Actually, why dont all school have DoT spells, and ALL schools have their own version of bolt, and all school have their version of satyr! how fun would that be??


And yet, death and ice have DoTs. Oh and balance has availing hands. Truth is, balancing the arena all comes down to making the schools more similar. The trick is finding the right balance so that the schools are different enough to be able to be unique, but not make them too different to unbalance the arena.

doudjy wrote:
Your points of view are as biased as they can be. You only make suggestions for the schools that you like, and you try to undermind the other schools (fire, myth, ice) by stating that they're overpowered. Now, as you may have noticed, I dont care what the result of poll on central is. The school are pretty well balanced to me. And i am speaking as person who have been pvp for over 2 years! You say most warlords are fire or myth, well I have seen A LOT of life warlords, ice warlords, death warlords, and balance warlords. I run onto them everyday! Because as soon as I get on w101, I pvp! mostly 1v1! that's the only reason why I play w101.


Oh my gosh, did you know I have an ice and a myth wizard! I am not the one being biased! I am basing my opinion around tournament results, and my experiences pvping on different school at different levels and in different styles of pvp (1v1, 2v2, etc.) Now, your opinion looks like its completely biased with fire wizards. You only disagree with me because if these ideas are implemented, your main school (fire) will be weakened. You would definitely have a different point of view if you 1v1ed with a life wizard.

I cant quite remember when I joined, but I know I have been pvping for 1 to 2 years, oh, and I also only play wizard101 to pvp. If they took pvp out, I would be the first to go.

doudjy wrote:
Now, there are some suggestions that I agree with. It is NOT fair that i have 109% chance of casting satyr, when life only gets 90%, and they are supposed to be good in accuracy. Storm and fire was once known for their high chance of fizzling. I honestly cannot remember the last time i fizzled in pvp. And i rarely see storm fizzle in pvp. That's gotta change! Life deserves higher accuracy rate. But the DoT spell just doesnt make sense and would go against KI's description of the schools.


If you ask me, I think all accuracy boosting should be taken away, but then again, I don't have a fire or storm wizard.

-Solstice64
P.S. I am a boy. Oh, and don't hold anything against me just because I disagree with you. Rivalry and dislike can blind people.

Explorer
Jul 05, 2009
54
Solstice64 wrote:
You obviously dislike me, though I wish you wouldn't express it. It just makes it look like you are only disagreeing with me because we are enemies or something.

Lol, first off, I dont dislike you! I dont know, and we are not enemies. But I just hate the fact that you seem to dislike fire soo much for some reasons. I have never seen someone hates on fire that much as you do!

Solstice64 wrote:
My opinion isn't soley based on the polls or opinion I read, its actually based on me pvping, me pvping in tournaments, the most common results of tournaments, and how much skill it takes to get that school to warlord. I just use other peoples opinion or polls to try to convince other people.

well opinions arent facts, and therefore cannot be used to evaluate anything.

Solstice64 wrote:
I thought it was funny when you said I have something against myth and fire, even though I have my own myth wizard.

then maybe it is time for you to make a fire wizard. I can guarantee you that you'll like it. Oh and btw, I have EVERY single school.

Solstice64 wrote:
Which would you rather have, a balanced arena with schools that are more simaller, or a top dog school but with each school being more different.

As i said, the arena is pretty balanced to me. Just because life isnt beast at 1v1 does not mean they're underpowered. They very well in group pvp. it's just what they are. they are not solo school. Top dog?? who's the top dog, i could well say ice, or death, and you would still stick by fire. So unless KI releases an official school ranking...nah even if they were to do that, it would still be based on their opinions and not any facts whatsoever.

Solstice64 wrote:
And yet, death and ice have DoTs. Oh and balance has availing hands. Truth is, balancing the arena all comes down to making the schools more similar. The trick is finding the right balance so that the schools are different enough to be able to be unique, but not make them too different to unbalance the arena.

hmm yes they do, and i dont see you complaining about that. Maybe because that doesnt "bother" you. It seems like everything about fire is a bother to you.

Solstice64 wrote:
Oh my gosh, did you know I have an ice and a myth wizard! I am not the one being biased! I am basing my opinion around tournament results, and my experiences pvping on different school at different levels and in different styles of pvp (1v1, 2v2, etc.) Now, your opinion looks like its completely biased with fire wizards. You only disagree with me because if these implemented, your main school (fire) will be weakened. You would definitely have a different point of view if you 1v1ed with a life wizard.

lol I have every single school. You see me complain about any of them being overpowered or underpowered. Again, maybe it's time for you to finally make that fire wizard, that might help you stop hating on us so much. And no, I disagree with you because your suggestions dont make sense and that's why they have been ignored by KI. Suggesting that a 8 pip spell (efreet) do the same damage as helephant (6pips) makes you sound foolish at best! do you really hate fire that much??
P.S. I accidently removed a few words in this (your) paragraph, dont know what they were so i cant replace them.

Solstice64 wrote:
I cant quite remember when I joined, but I know I have been pvping for 1 to 2 years, oh, and I also only play wizard101 to pvp. If they took pvp out, I would be the first to go.

same here

Solstice64 wrote:
If you ask me, I think all accuracy boosting should be taken away, but then again, I don't have a fire or storm wizard.
that might actually be a good way of balancing pvp, but i dont see that happening.

Solstice64 wrote:
P.S. I am a boy. Oh, and don't hold anything against me just because I disagree with you. Rivalry and dislike can blind people.

Lol sorry i didnt know. For some reasons, your name sound, to me, like a girl name. But i am very sorry for that again, i dont hate you, nor do i have a reasons to. But it seems like you hate fire soooo much.I dont hold anything against you either, it's merely a game.

Survivor
Jan 09, 2009
7
I think the easy and fair way to balance out PVP is to give all the schools a more similar critical hit chance. I get that the elemental schools are supposed to do more damage, but it seems that they get bigger damage boosts AND more critical chance. So a fire wizard is better at casting the spells than a death wizard? why is that? I'm really hoping that death and life and balance actually get a PVP usable spell in the next update, and give fire ice and myth the same junk we got in the last update.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407

Lol, first off, I dont dislike you! I dont know, and we are not enemies. But I just hate the fact that you seem to dislike fire soo much for some reasons. I have never seen someone hates on fire that much as you do!

I don't hate fire, fire is obviously overpowered. I completely understand why you disagree with me. I heard you say you have a fire warlord, so, if fire was overpowered, that means its easier to get to warlord. Now this means if you admit fire is overpowered, to you it would be similar to admitting that your not as good at pvp as you thought you were, or all your skill comes from using something overpowered. Any human mind will jump straight to that, and its human nature to try to make yourself look as good as possible, so your not going to ever admit fire is overpowered unless you can first admit that your not as good as you once thought (or just not think about that aspect of it.) I had to do this with my ice wizard, I would probably be stuck at captain if I had to fight warlord Magus rather then the easy private legends.

then maybe it is time for you to make a fire wizard. I can guarantee you that you'll like it. Oh and btw, I have EVERY single school.

Even having every school, you still are favoring fire. I don't see you going on about how I am unfair to myth for thinking they are overpowered, or ice.
Oh and BTW, I have pvped on my friends fire before, it was a million times easier then pvping on my balance wizard. I know what its like to play as a fire, and against one.

As i said, the arena is pretty balanced to me. Just because life isnt beast at 1v1 does not mean they're underpowered. They very well in group pvp. it's just what they are. they are not solo school. Top dog?? who's the top dog, i could well say ice, or death, and you would still stick by fire. So unless KI releases an official school ranking...nah even if they were to do that, it would still be based on their opinions and not any facts whatsoever.

The is only balanced because you want it to be. If you admit that your warlord is the easiest school to get to warlord with, then you would effectively be admitting that your not as good as pvp as you once thought, which as stated before, is extremely hard for human beings.

hmm yes they do, and i dont see you complaining about that. Maybe because that doesnt "bother" you. It seems like everything about fire is a bother to you.

Let me explain to you why I said that. You said that Giving storm and life a DoT would make fire not unique. Yet, death and ice already have a DoT, which was never in thir school description. Oh and balance can heal, but that was never in their description either. Point is that giving storm and life a DoT wont make fire any less unique. You cant base your opinion of a summary of a school, there is more to them then just what is described in those description.

Let me bring back those words that you accidentally left out, they are pretty important.

Solstice64 wrote:
Truth is, balancing the arena all comes down to making the schools more similar. The trick is finding the right balance so that the schools are different enough to be able to be unique, but not make them too different to unbalance the arena.


If you accidentally cut these words out, but never bothered to bring them back, then I might of said something that you can't disagree with, but don't want to admit its true.

lol I have every single school. You see me complain about any of them being overpowered or underpowered. Again, maybe it's time for you to finally make that fire wizard, that might help you stop hating on us so much. And no, I disagree with you because your suggestions dont make sense and that's why they have been ignored by KI. Suggesting that a 8 pip spell (efreet) do the same damage as helephant (6pips) makes you sound foolish at best! do you really hate fire that much??
P.S. I accidently removed a few words in this (your) paragraph, dont know what they were so i cant replace them.


Once again, I have nothing against fire. Tournament results, experiences and opinions of some of the biggest and most famous pvpers ever (like Alex JadeRider), and my own personal experiences show fire being overpowered. What do you have? Fire isn't over powered because I have a wizard of every school and I am a warlord. Oh, and that have been pvping for a long time.

same here

Exactly, so you have no more experience then me. I may even have more experiences then you since I have done tourneys.

-Solstice64
P.S. I know you hold something against me, its called first impressions. When you first read my post, you though it was noobish and dumb, now you are always going to think of me like that, and anything I say means nothing to you.


Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
958
Solstice64,

There is one point that I would like to add here. At one point in time, before the Wintertusk release, Ice was at the top of the PvP ladder, imo. Digiby Strongheart and others clearly proved this. Fire and Myth have always been strong contenders.
After the Wintertusk release, Ice clearly dropped a level. So if you are saying that the Charts clearly show Ice up with Fire and Myth, that was clearly before Wintertusk/Waterworks. Now the charts since the release of W/W clearly show that Myth and Fire have done very well.

I have said this before, and I will also state it here. Waterworks hurt the Ice Wizard more than any other school. It was clear that Waterworks was designed to downgrade the Ice Wizard. It also hurt Death to some degree also. If you want the details on this, I will be more than willing to list them.

Ice was my first Wizard, and may always be my favorite. So Waterworks was clearly not my favorite place, after I saw the damage it did to Ice in PvP.

Bottom line, Myth and Fire are clearly at the top of the charts, but Ice is clearly no longer at the top or even close to it.
That is exactly why I retired my Ice from PvP, as it has dropped back into the hard to Master bracket.

Joe,
Joseph Lionhunter, Ice, Balacne, Storm, Death, and Life and Myth on their way.


Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Lion359 wrote:
Solstice64,

There is one point that I would like to add here. At one point in time, before the Wintertusk release, Ice was at the top of the PvP ladder, imo. Digiby Strongheart and others clearly proved this. Fire and Myth have always been strong contenders.
After the Wintertusk release, Ice clearly dropped a level. So if you are saying that the Charts clearly show Ice up with Fire and Myth, that was clearly before Wintertusk/Waterworks. Now the charts since the release of W/W clearly show that Myth and Fire have done very well.

I have said this before, and I will also state it here. Waterworks hurt the Ice Wizard more than any other school. It was clear that Waterworks was designed to downgrade the Ice Wizard. It also hurt Death to some degree also. If you want the details on this, I will be more than willing to list them.

Ice was my first Wizard, and may always be my favorite. So Waterworks was clearly not my favorite place, after I saw the damage it did to Ice in PvP.

Bottom line, Myth and Fire are clearly at the top of the charts, but Ice is clearly no longer at the top or even close to it.
That is exactly why I retired my Ice from PvP, as it has dropped back into the hard to Master bracket.

Joe,
Joseph Lionhunter, Ice, Balacne, Storm, Death, and Life and Myth on their way.



Before wintertusk, ice was just plain overpowered. You could get to warlord with no skill at all, just put a ton of blades on and then snow angle. Only myth and fire could counter this (earthquake and efreet.) Though ice would still dominate them due to their massive health and resist, though they were competitive with ice. Since wintertusk, ice did weaken, its dropped from 1st to 3rd. The schools without DoTs or good bubbles still have a lot of trouble with ice, which is why it ranks so high. Ice still does very well in tourneys, with only myth and fire being on top. Ice just isn't over powered anymore, though it still is quite powerful.

-Solstice64

Survivor
Apr 25, 2011
30
doudjy wrote:
"Balancing PvP"?? This thread, to me, is more about "powering my favorite school". Solstice64, really has a big problem with school like fire and myth. And her reasons are based solely on the "polls" and opinions that she reads on central. In the thread "efreet was made wrong", she suggested that Efreet's damage, an 8pip spell, be lowered to helephant damage. Know, i know why KI doesnt pay much attention to such suggestions. But let's get back to the topic.

Like travis said, I am tired of people wanting to make all the schools similar. They are the kind of people who forgot the questions that they were asked before they were given their schools. They forgot that each school has their own characteristics, and they are all unique. Why on earth should storm and life get a DoT spell?? That is a fire characteristic! Even now you can still read the characteristics of each school.

Here's a quote from the site (this one) that expalains: "The Fire School will train its student wizards to do damage over time. Fire Wizards pile on spells that will continually do damage to the enemy. Initially these spells will not do much damage, but they eventually stack for possible large amounts of damage in short amounts of time." that is specific to fire, you dont read that for every school. Whereas storm students learn to do great damage on a short amount of time! that is a storm characteristic! so why should all the school get the same characteristic?? If storm and life deserves a DoT damage spell, then maybe Fire deserve a 1 pip spell that can do as much damage as bolt, or bats! or maybe fire deserves a healing spell like satyr! Actually, why dont all school have DoT spells, and ALL schools have their own version of bolt, and all school have their version of satyr! how fun would that be??

Your points of view are as biased as they can be. You only make suggestions for the schools that you like, and you try to undermind the other schools (fire, myth, ice) by stating that they're overpowered. Now, as you may have noticed, I dont care what the result of poll on central is. The school are pretty well balanced to me. And i am speaking as person who have been pvp for over 2 years! You say most warlords are fire or myth, well I have seen A LOT of life warlords, ice warlords, death warlords, and balance warlords. I run onto them everyday! Because as soon as I get on w101, I pvp! mostly 1v1! that's the only reason why I play w101.

Now, there are some suggestions that I agree with. It is NOT fair that i have 109% chance of casting satyr, when life only gets 90%, and they are supposed to be good in accuracy. Storm and fire was once known for their high chance of fizzling. I honestly cannot remember the last time i fizzled in pvp. And i rarely see storm fizzle in pvp. That's gotta change! Life deserves higher accuracy rate. But the DoT spell just doesnt make sense and would go against KI's description of the schools.


I really agree with you, I've been wanting to post something like this since a long time ago. DoT's are fire's characteristic, not storms, not lifes, not ice, or any other school. If you want a DoT spell then change your school to fire. Not that hard, also storm complains about shields... use storm elf, you can mutate fire elf for that which requires 2 pips. Life, if you don't have the myth mastery amulet like all the other Life's do or most do, use shatter cost 3 pips.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Pablooooo wrote:


I really agree with you, I've been wanting to post something like this since a long time ago. DoT's are fire's characteristic, not storms, not lifes, not ice, or any other school. If you want a DoT spell then change your school to fire. Not that hard, also storm complains about shields... use storm elf, you can mutate fire elf for that which requires 2 pips. Life, if you don't have the myth mastery amulet like all the other Life's do or most do, use shatter cost 3 pips.


Yes ice and death have a DoT spell. Life's characteristic is to heal, yet balance can. Balance's characteristic is global buffs, yet death has feint. Another one of balance's characteristics is debuffing, yet fire has efreet. The list goes on and on, and don't even get me started on mastery amulets. Point is, just because its a schools characteristic doesn't make it exclusive to that school.

Defender
Feb 03, 2009
119
Myth and Fire are the top for simple reasons.

Shields are useless against Myth and Fire has the Hound.

Ice comes in third because of their high health.

BTW...Storm has a dot from the pet Stormhound. Ya..it rocks.

The schools are fine, but they should remove Criticals from PvP and keep them only in PvE. Rework the PvP gear for this change. Problem solved...:)

Survivor
Apr 25, 2011
30
Solstice64 wrote:
Pablooooo wrote:


I really agree with you, I've been wanting to post something like this since a long time ago. DoT's are fire's characteristic, not storms, not lifes, not ice, or any other school. If you want a DoT spell then change your school to fire. Not that hard, also storm complains about shields... use storm elf, you can mutate fire elf for that which requires 2 pips. Life, if you don't have the myth mastery amulet like all the other Life's do or most do, use shatter cost 3 pips.


Yes ice and death have a DoT spell. Life's characteristic is to heal, yet balance can. Balance's characteristic is global buffs, yet death has feint. Another one of balance's characteristics is debuffing, yet fire has efreet. The list goes on and on, and don't even get me started on mastery amulets. Point is, just because its a schools characteristic doesn't make it exclusive to that school.


Yes, fire has efreet but just like someone on here said...Efreet follows fires style. Hit, Recover, Stack up, & Repeat. Just like all of the DoTs.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Pablooooo wrote:


Yes, fire has efreet but just like someone on here said...Efreet follows fires style. Hit, Recover, Stack up, & Repeat. Just like all of the DoTs.


1. Then explain everything else I said.

2. Fire isn't the only school about recovering, most schools do that so it isn't really a characteristic of fire. Want an example? Leviathan also weakens an incoming attack (by removing any blades used to boost the attack.) So, if you would consider efreet a recovering attack, then so is leviathon. Making storm a hit and recover school as well ( a better example would of been death with drain spells.)

-Solstice64

Survivor
Apr 25, 2011
30
Solstice64 wrote:
Pablooooo wrote:


Yes, fire has efreet but just like someone on here said...Efreet follows fires style. Hit, Recover, Stack up, & Repeat. Just like all of the DoTs.


1. Then explain everything else I said.

2. Fire isn't the only school about recovering, most schools do that so it isn't really a characteristic of fire. Want an example? Leviathan also weakens an incoming attack (by removing any blades used to boost the attack.) So, if you would consider efreet a recovering attack, then so is leviathon. Making storm a hit and recover school as well ( a better example would of been death with drain spells.)

-Solstice64

Lol, Leviathan can kind of weaken incoming spells...but it won't always work. Think about it like this, if a storm uses Leviathan against a school like Ice to weaken it's snow angel. Leviathan may take away the wrong blades, for elemental blades fire, storm, and then ice blade is the order for this. So Leviathan takes away the first 2, which would be fire and storm. If you wanted to give a good example then you should have said something about death not storm.

Death and Ice do have DoT spells but we can't do nothing about it anymore, or at least KI won't. What I really want is for storm and life to not have DoT spells. It would ruin PvP even more and PvP will never be balanced there will always be something wrong. Each school should be UNIQUE not the SAME.

Explorer
Apr 10, 2010
78
Death and Ice do have DoT spells but we can't do nothing about it anymore, or at least KI won't. What I really want is for storm and life to not have DoT spells. It would ruin PvP even more and PvP will never be balanced there will always be something wrong. Each school should be unique not the same.


So you don't want life or storm to do dot??? I seriosly (lol probably spelt that wrong) want a life dot cause somthing with a life sheild in it is maybe the 3rd most popular sheilds in the game and my pvps take forever cause I can't properly charge my attack without having to wand of the shields, wasting my blades and fients. Thats the reason you rarly see a life warlord, so it kinda sounds like you want to stay on top of life wizard. But anyway I agree that the ww dosen't make any sense, fixing a players weaknesses instead of improving their strengths, or atleast evening out out the playing feild a bit.

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Pablooooo wrote:

Lol, Leviathan can kind of weaken incoming spells...but it won't always work. Think about it like this, if a storm uses Leviathan against a school like Ice to weaken it's snow angel. Leviathan may take away the wrong blades, for elemental blades fire, storm, and then ice blade is the order for this. So Leviathan takes away the first 2, which would be fire and storm. If you wanted to give a good example then you should have said something about death not storm.

Death and Ice do have DoT spells but we can't do nothing about it anymore, or at least KI won't. What I really want is for storm and life to not have DoT spells. It would ruin PvP even more and PvP will never be balanced there will always be something wrong. Each school should be UNIQUE not the SAME.


Leviathan may not be as good as efreet, but its still a hit and recover attack, just with more hit and less recover. I have more examples as well. Balance with power nova, myth with Medusa, and death with drain spells, they all hit then help the caster recover or recover them directly.

Once again, that's only one thing I said. What is so bad about storm and life having a DoT? Why is that SO terrible. It seems your more interested in unique schools then balanced schools.

Let me tell you how to make pvp 100% balanced, you take away all the different schools and have one. I don't want that nor does any one, but that's how you make pvp completely flawless.

Now, the trick is to make the schools similar enough to have good balance, but different enough to have each school as an individual. I honestly don't think giving every school a more equal chance at clearing shields is ruining their individuality.

So I am going to ask you. What is the fair compromise between school individuality and balance? Definitely not the way it is now, the schools are TOO different. Fire and myth Rule pvp mostly because of how easy it is for them to attack around shields, while life sits at the bottom because they can't clear or go around shields in an efficient way. To me, as long as the schools maintain their different roles in group play, then I am fine with making them more similar.

Now, based on everything I said before, I'll ask you the most important question yet. Would you rather have balanced pvp with similar schools, or unbalanced pvp with schools being much less alike? If you have the top school, then you get the best of both worlds, so try to think of pvp as a whole, not as yourself.

-Solstice64

Geographer
Aug 28, 2010
958
"Before wintertusk, ice was just plain overpowered. You could get to warlord with no skill at all, just put a ton of blades on and then snow angle. Only myth and fire could counter this (earthquake and efreet.) Though ice would still dominate them due to their massive health and resist, though they were competitive with ice. Since wintertusk, ice did weaken, its dropped from 1st to 3rd. The schools without DoTs or good bubbles still have a lot of trouble with ice, which is why it ranks so high. Ice still does very well in tourneys, with only myth and fire being on top. Ice just isn't over powered anymore, though it still is quite powerful.

-Solstice64"

Solstice64,

I would like to counter your comments. Please note, I am only talking about Legendary here, nothing below that level.
Before Wintertusk, the ony reason that Ice was overpowered to any degree is becase Players allowed Snow Angel to be triple bladed or more. Now that Triage was released, Snow Angel is a dead spell in PvP. Add to that, Shatter, which also leaves Ice with no defense, as it always needed to shield while it added blades to hit. Everyone talks of Ice's huge health, which means nothing with Criticals. My Storm can Critical every third round, on average. I have seen Life do about the same, and when you add the Storm Amulet onto them, you have a weapon.
My Ice has been taken out (when at full health), with two critical hits.
Therefore, I see Ice's health as a much smaller advantage than you do.

As it is now, DOT are no longer for damage, they are almost useless.
These two spells (noted above) hurt Ice and Death more than any other wizards/players.
I clearly do not place ICE in the top three Wizards, especially since Wintertusk. Another item that really hurt Ice was the release of the Master Amulets, as this gave Balance a huge edge. Enough of an edge, where it has clearly replaced Ice in the charts since Wintertusk.

I believe that Shinedown (Paul) put it best in one of his postings...
(this is from memory)..
"Ice has lost a lot of it's punch since the Wintertusk release, just consider them Life with a little more hit."
I think that puts it very well, Ice is really no longer a contender in 1v1 PVP.

As of today, I put Ice at level four in 1v1, and I believe that is exactly what KI intended.

Joe,
Joseph LionHunter.
Balance, Storm, Death, and a cup of Ice water.
Myth and Life on their way.

Survivor
May 16, 2009
12
First of all fire is not easy to beat! I am fire, when I was a noob I couldn't pvp, and I lost like 250 times, while winning 100, but now I am a commander. Because it was hard to beat me, I know how to pvp now. I dominate in pvp! :P :P Ice is really good too! We're not easy to beat man! I did a 4v4 team all fire. We were 25-0 that day, then the next day 50-0. how is fire easy to beat? Same with ice, how is ice easy, I did a 3 ice and a life, we go 30-0 then 20-0. I have two commanders, one is almost warlord, other is like 850.

Dylan StrongBlood, lvl 60 commander 890 :P
Dylan StrongBlood lvl 60 commander 850
Ryan StrongBlood lvl 60 seargeant 594
David StrongBlood lvl 16 corporal 530 (Still training)

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Lion359 wrote:
"Before wintertusk, ice was just plain overpowered. You could get to warlord with no skill at all, just put a ton of blades on and then snow angle. Only myth and fire could counter this (earthquake and efreet.) Though ice would still dominate them due to their massive health and resist, though they were competitive with ice. Since wintertusk, ice did weaken, its dropped from 1st to 3rd. The schools without DoTs or good bubbles still have a lot of trouble with ice, which is why it ranks so high. Ice still does very well in tourneys, with only myth and fire being on top. Ice just isn't over powered anymore, though it still is quite powerful.

-Solstice64"

Solstice64,

I would like to counter your comments. Please note, I am only talking about Legendary here, nothing below that level.
Before Wintertusk, the ony reason that Ice was overpowered to any degree is becase Players allowed Snow Angel to be triple bladed or more. Now that Triage was released, Snow Angel is a dead spell in PvP. Add to that, Shatter, which also leaves Ice with no defense, as it always needed to shield while it added blades to hit. Everyone talks of Ice's huge health, which means nothing with Criticals. My Storm can Critical every third round, on average. I have seen Life do about the same, and when you add the Storm Amulet onto them, you have a weapon.
My Ice has been taken out (when at full health), with two critical hits.
Therefore, I see Ice's health as a much smaller advantage than you do.

As it is now, DOT are no longer for damage, they are almost useless.
These two spells (noted above) hurt Ice and Death more than any other wizards/players.
I clearly do not place ICE in the top three Wizards, especially since Wintertusk. Another item that really hurt Ice was the release of the Master Amulets, as this gave Balance a huge edge. Enough of an edge, where it has clearly replaced Ice in the charts since Wintertusk.

I believe that Shinedown (Paul) put it best in one of his postings...
(this is from memory)..
"Ice has lost a lot of it's punch since the Wintertusk release, just consider them Life with a little more hit."
I think that puts it very well, Ice is really no longer a contender in 1v1 PVP.

As of today, I put Ice at level four in 1v1, and I believe that is exactly what KI intended.

Joe,
Joseph LionHunter.
Balance, Storm, Death, and a cup of Ice water.
Myth and Life on their way.


Snow angle definitely does not posses the power it used to posses. I agree with you on that. That's what made ice over powered. I agree with you on that too. What I don't agree with you on is that its ice's only weapon. Snow angle still does damage around shields, they have the best bubble in the game, they can also deal some massive damage with colossus if the opponent isn't shielded due to their massive boosts, and its hard to shield becuase of their DoTs.

Ice is definitely the third best in pvp, but its not at that same op level as fire and myth. That's why I think ice would fall behind if these changes were made, that's why I suggested that ice should receive some little spell to keep it competitive. It doesn't need the same kind of boosting the other schools do, but it does need something small to up it to the same level as fire (which is what we are trying to do to all the schools, so why not ice?)

Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
Lucario450 wrote:
Death and Ice do have DoT spells but we can't do nothing about it anymore, or at least KI won't. What I really want is for storm and life to not have DoT spells. It would ruin PvP even more and PvP will never be balanced there will always be something wrong. Each school should be unique not the same.


So you don't want life or storm to do dot??? I seriosly (lol probably spelt that wrong) want a life dot cause somthing with a life sheild in it is maybe the 3rd most popular sheilds in the game and my pvps take forever cause I can't properly charge my attack without having to wand of the shields, wasting my blades and fients. Thats the reason you rarly see a life warlord, so it kinda sounds like you want to stay on top of life wizard. But anyway I agree that the ww dosen't make any sense, fixing a players weaknesses instead of improving their strengths, or atleast evening out out the playing feild a bit.

Your not making much sense, at first you say you don't want schools to be more similar and life and storm shouldn't have a DoTs, but than in you second paragraph you state that life should have a DoT and we should improve upon the schools weaknesses (making them less unique.)

On a side note:

The reason why I like this idea so much is it isn't your everyday Weaken this or that, its taking a different stand. Rather than weakening the strong schools, we are making the weak schools more powerful, and that is a much more acceptable way to do things (so no one goes into defensive mode of their school being weakened.)

-Solstice64

A+ Student
Mar 02, 2010
1643
Solstice64 wrote:
I stumbled upon a topic on wizard101 central about balancing pvp. I thought that it nailed 90% of the problems in pvp, and I thought I would post it here, to show KI (again) and the people on these forms. This post was created by Onion Knight over on wizard101 central, and I'll quote it for you.

Onion Knight wrote:

Let's face it: there isn't a single old school player (meaning that they PvP'd when level 50 was the highest you could attain) out there that would say that PvP is at its best right now. During the time when everyone wore the Commander outfit, every school was on somewhat even footing. Yes, Myth, Fire, and Ice were the dominates thanks in part to their damage bubble, but at the same time you would see Storms, Balances, Deaths, and Lifes competing as well. That brings me to my first "suggestion."

Warlord Arena Gear is no longer a good idea. It's the best idea.

Put everyone in the same outfit again. The defensive games of old were where the real strategy lay; not in lucky criticals or spammy attacks. On top of that, school accuracy wouldn't be royally messed over anymore. Life shouldn't be fizzling when Fire, Myth, or Storm (Ice gets 99%, so basically Ice as well) can cast Life spells without fail. Wasn't Life (as well as Balance and Death) designed to be the low damage, high accuracy school? Not since the Waterworks. I know several Lifes that wore pieces of Commander gear just to keep their fizzles down.

Bottom line: Giving everyone the same outfit is not as bad of a hit against individuality as you might think. Ice still has health, Fire/Storm/Myth still have damage, and Life/Balance/Death still have superior accuracy. In fact, this would be much better than the backwards system that the Waterworks dropped on us.

---

Even with the same gear, Fire and Myth are still far and away the top dogs. How do you level the playing field without making everyone the same? I'd like to hear your suggestions. Basically, we're looking for simple little tweaks to the lower tier schools that will make a big difference in their game.

The schools being discussed are Life, Balance, Death, and Storm. Particularly Balance and Death, as the other two are team oriented. Life and Storm could stand to be better in 1v1 for sure, but their real strength lies in the team game as I already said.

Life.

>Give Life a 4-pip DoT spell similar to Poison. This solves Life's biggest problem: being easily predicted.
>Why is Sanctuary 3 pips? Making it 2 gives Life an even field in the bubble war.

Storm.

>Putting everyone in Warlord gear gives Storm the ability to survive.
>Storm needs a DoT just as badly as Life, as a deck of Volcanic Shields shuts it down relatively quickly. Storm Elves are nice and all, but it's time for something that doesn't cost 500 gold per pop.
>Give the Storm Elemental the ability to use Storm Elf.

Balance.

>Power Play should be 2 pips. Enough said.
>I'll copy a line from my post in firestarter75's thread.
"2 pip Hydra.
I can think of more than one case where I lost a tournament match from second when I would Hydra straight into a Volcanic Shield. Balance's damage output wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so annoyingly easy to defend. Toss up 3 Volcanics and Balance is shut down. They can try Spectral Minion, but unfortunately the smart player will knock them down immediately with a 4 pip AoE. There is literally nothing Balance can do to stop Volcanic Shield. A simple solution is to implement a 2 pip spell that does Fire, Ice, and Storm damage. It wouldn't have to be much; just a little spell like Link that was designed for PvP. It would make going second a much more fair game for Balance and give them a much needed unique "tool."
Death."

>Death would benefit most out of any school from Warlord Gear. Since its bubble is basically unusable when in danger, Death could actually use a Mastery Amulet on a school such as Myth or Fire to attack from, thanks to generic damage given by Warlord gear.

---

It's surprising how easy it would be to re-balance PvP. All it would take is a new set of Warlord gear, a few simple edits to existing spells, and one to two new spells.

Thoughts or comments?

-Onion


My notes:

If life got a 4 pip DoT, not only would they no longer be predictable, but wouldn't struggle with shields so much, meaning they wouldn't rely on the myth mastery amulet.

Sanctuary does need to be 2 pips, though the bubble can sometimes hurt life if the opponent is low on health. I think life should get a 2 pip 30% bubble (in between ice and the high damage schools) so they can compete in the bubble war without hurting themselves.

If storm gets a DoT, it would need to be pip expensive like frostbite, and most of the damage needs to be focused on the first hit. If not, then storm would become over powered.

The storm minion should cast storm elf, just make sure it doesn't spam it.

I think power play should be completely changes, it never will benefit the owner as balances pips are already 90%. Someone on the post said it should be +30% damage for your team, and -30% damage for the opponents team. I think that would be overpowered, but if you lowered it to +15% for all friends and -15% to all enemies, then I think it would be fair (and quite useful.)

I agree with the 2 pip hydra all the way, now balance wont rely on shatter.

Death could use a bubble as well as doom and gloom can hurt more then help at times. A +30% would be ideal.

I think ice would fall behind if all these spells were added, maybe a simple spell to keep ice competitive.
-------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, if these changes were implemented, and first turn advantage was fixed, then legend pvp would be nearly flawless.

-Solstice64
All credit goes to Onion Knight.
P.S. sorry for any bad grammar, I don't feel like proof-reading my notes.



I agree with you, but not the 2 pip hydra O:. I have a Balance wiz and i already hit high with it, 3/4 pips should be better :P.

Explorer
Mar 15, 2011
89

Good thread Solstice64. Couldn't agree more with most of this. My first school is balance and it's the school I enjoy most in pvp. I have many problems with the way the schools are set up in PvP but don't voice my thoughts often because I dont want to sound like a whiner.

Unfortunately, from a Balance perspective, I have to say if you give Life and Storm DoTs, then the only school that will struggle with shield removal is Balance and I personally HATE to rely on Shatter/Myth Mastery amulets (which I have, by the way, FARMED not BOUGHT and refuse to use) as some sort of second rate crutch. So I politely disagree with you a bit on that account. On the other hand does the suggestion for the 2 pip Hydra mean two regular or power pips? If I can remove shields as a Balance for one power pip then I am more on board with what you and OnionKnight suggest. Another thing for balance I really wish KI would get in touch with is something alone the lines of Hydra/Spectral Blast but geared more towards the Spirit damage side. If KI did something about that for balance, then Life and Storm wizards can have their DoTs, far as I'm concerned. Although 700 total damage over time for a Storm Wizard!?!? Good gravy!

Boy, though, the accuracy PHEW! life death balance used to be best now they are worst HUH? How can KI justify that through our mere power pip allocation? Power pips isnt THAT great of an advantage. And some extra damage boost????? Pffft! Makes no sense whatsoever.

Another BIG BIG gripe I have had for the longest time is the mastery amulets. Terrible idea. It is nothing but absolutely obnoxious that Fire wizards, for instance, can get away with 2 PiP Satyrs THAT CRITICAL, a third the time. I want the mastery amulets RETIRED, DISCONTINUED, or at very least BANNED from PvP. I am sick of everybody being a Life wizard too. Or whatever second school but mostly let's be honest those mastery amulets are Life and for the benefit of Fire Ice and Myth. Though good for Storm as well, I'd think. Anyhow, it's probably not going to happen and I'll get over it and find some other way to win.

As primarily a Balance wizard, it is funny to see the various schools call out for BALANCE and an even playing field in the arena. Sometimes it makes me smirk, it really does 8)

I have another suggestion about PvP: ALTERNATE WHO GOES FIRST FROM ROUND TO ROUND. How hard would that be to change? I think it's a great idea that would completely revolutionize everybody's collective enjoyment of PvP. No more advantage of going first, merely strategy and skill of dueling.

In the meantime, until we get some love from KI, I will suggest that it is possible to beat Myth and Fire wizards. Fire is actually harder than Myth, for me. With Myth it is easier to heal away the damage. Just this week I have beaten a Myth from second position twice. The second happened a few moments ago and inspired me, frankly, to come comment on your fine post here. His fire friend was heckling me that "Balance sucks" from the cheap seats. Maybe he was just a bad myth, I don't know. I survived two Medusas and being stunned twice (two rounds first time, one round the second). I think his inability to combo with Orhtrus (instead deluding himself that Frog was enough) did him in.

If you are savvy you can catch Myth and Fire in that arrogance of invincibility they have currently adorned themselves in.



Champion
Apr 18, 2010
407
jojowild23 wrote:

Good thread Solstice64. Couldn't agree more with most of this. My first school is balance and it's the school I enjoy most in pvp. I have many problems with the way the schools are set up in PvP but don't voice my thoughts often because I dont want to sound like a whiner.


The term Whiner and complainer is overused on this forum. People use it on people who disagree with them, not true whiners or complainers. Just voice your opinion and ignore the words, as you give them power.

jojowild23 wrote:
Unfortunately, from a Balance perspective, I have to say if you give Life and Storm DoTs, then the only school that will struggle with shield removal is Balance and I personally HATE to rely on Shatter/Myth Mastery amulets (which I have, by the way, FARMED not BOUGHT and refuse to use) as some sort of second rate crutch. So I politely disagree with you a bit on that account. On the other hand does the suggestion for the 2 pip Hydra mean two regular or power pips? If I can remove shields as a Balance for one power pip then I am more on board with what you and OnionKnight suggest. Another thing for balance I really wish KI would get in touch with is something alone the lines of Hydra/Spectral Blast but geared more towards the Spirit damage side. If KI did something about that for balance, then Life and Storm wizards can have their DoTs, far as I'm concerned. Although 700 total damage over time for a Storm Wizard!?!? Good gravy!


The "new hydra" is 2 pips just like scorpion, 1 power pip. Your idea on spirit attacks as been suggested before, and isn't really on the lines of balancing pvp, but more of a new spell concept.

jojowild23 wrote:
Boy, though, the accuracy PHEW! life death balance used to be best now they are worst HUH? How can KI justify that through our mere power pip allocation? Power pips isnt THAT great of an advantage. And some extra damage boost????? Pffft! Makes no sense whatsoever.


Agreed. Plus Fire, Myth, and Ice can boost their pips with knifes and rings, we can't boost our accuracy with anything but pets.

jojowild23 wrote:
Another BIG BIG gripe I have had for the longest time is the mastery amulets. Terrible idea. It is nothing but absolutely obnoxious that Fire wizards, for instance, can get away with 2 PiP Satyrs THAT CRITICAL, a third the time. I want the mastery amulets RETIRED, DISCONTINUED, or at very least BANNED from PvP. I am sick of everybody being a Life wizard too. Or whatever second school but mostly let's be honest those mastery amulets are Life and for the benefit of Fire Ice and Myth. Though good for Storm as well, I'd think. Anyhow, it's probably not going to happen and I'll get over it and find some other way to win.


I dislike mastery amulets as well, but they don't unbalance pvp, every school gets a use from them.

jojowild23 wrote:
As primarily a Balance wizard, it is funny to see the various schools call out for BALANCE and an even playing field in the arena. Sometimes it makes me smirk, it really does 8)


My first wizard was a balance as well, though balance was pretty powerful pre-celestia.

jojowild23 wrote:
I have another suggestion about PvP: ALTERNATE WHO GOES FIRST FROM ROUND TO ROUND. How hard would that be to change? I think it's a great idea that would completely revolutionize everybody's collective enjoyment of PvP. No more advantage of going first, merely strategy and skill of dueling.


Many suggestions for this have been made, and I think KI is thinking about it, so post your ideas separately if you want them to get noticed.

jojowild23 wrote:
In the meantime, until we get some love from KI, I will suggest that it is possible to beat Myth and Fire wizards. Fire is actually harder than Myth, for me. With Myth it is easier to heal away the damage. Just this week I have beaten a Myth from second position twice. The second happened a few moments ago and inspired me, frankly, to come comment on your fine post here. His fire friend was heckling me that "Balance sucks" from the cheap seats. Maybe he was just a bad myth, I don't know. I survived two Medusas and being stunned twice (two rounds first time, one round the second). I think his inability to combo with Orhtrus (instead deluding himself that Frog was enough) did him in.

If you are savvy you can catch Myth and Fire in that arrogance of invincibility they have currently adorned themselves in.


Its never impossible to beat them, they just have an easier time in pvp then us.

-Solstice64
P.S. Thanks for your support!

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