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What is life good at again?

AuthorMessage
Explorer
Jun 13, 2010
67
Something has to be done with the new updates. Now any school w/ life mastery amulet can train up satyr, as well as TC rebirths, dryads, pretty much every heal, and cards from their gear, like unicorn, AND spritely which casts almost every turn.

With storm mastery amulet, lets look at spells like stormzilla that are trainable... looking at the accuracy alone, storm wizards get accuracy boosts while other people would be stuck at 70% trying to cast a stormzilla. Both life wizards and non-life wizards alike have 90% accuracy only.

With ice mastery amulet: its useless pretty much. All you get is tower shield for 0 pips. The REAL pros of ice like high health and big resist are ice only and always will be, so the ice amulet doesn't benefit people as much as the life one does.

This is just the beginning. My point? A non-life wizard has the power to become a life wizard on their own. With spritely they can't die. Definitely a talent someone should look over. Most non-life people train life for it's HEALS. It would be useless to train any school like balance or death for their attacks, amulets or not, because those schools' damage (balance and death) percentages comes from their gear. Life's only unique part is healing, which anyone can do. No one would train life for it's weak attacks.

When another school casts a satyr with the amulet, they get all the benefits a life wiz gets: 90% accuracy, power pips included. They can also wear gear for better incoming health or outgoing health. Life wizards, unlike other schools, have no super special advantages from their gear, but they have advantages from their spells which any school can get.

Now this makes life wizards pretty much useless, with other schools training tons of satyrs and rebirths and becoming healers themselves. All we have is moderate health (less than ice) and defense as well as weak attacks. Yay, life is a dying school.

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
Cape36 wrote:
Something has to be done with the new updates. Now any school w/ life mastery amulet can train up satyr, as well as TC rebirths, dryads, pretty much every heal, and cards from their gear, like unicorn, AND spritely which casts almost every turn.

With storm mastery amulet, lets look at spells like stormzilla that are trainable... looking at the accuracy alone, storm wizards get accuracy boosts while other people would be stuck at 70% trying to cast a stormzilla. Both life wizards and non-life wizards alike have 90% accuracy only.

With ice mastery amulet: its useless pretty much. All you get is tower shield for 0 pips. The REAL pros of ice like high health and big resist are ice only and always will be, so the ice amulet doesn't benefit people as much as the life one does.

This is just the beginning. My point? A non-life wizard has the power to become a life wizard on their own. With spritely they can't die. Definitely a talent someone should look over. Most non-life people train life for it's HEALS. It would be useless to train any school like balance or death for their attacks, amulets or not, because those schools' damage (balance and death) percentages comes from their gear. Life's only unique part is healing, which anyone can do. No one would train life for it's weak attacks.

When another school casts a satyr with the amulet, they get all the benefits a life wiz gets: 90% accuracy, power pips included. They can also wear gear for better incoming health or outgoing health. Life wizards, unlike other schools, have no super special advantages from their gear, but they have advantages from their spells which any school can get.

Now this makes life wizards pretty much useless, with other schools training tons of satyrs and rebirths and becoming healers themselves. All we have is moderate health (less than ice) and defense as well as weak attacks. Yay, life is a dying school.
You're over looking the fact that it is VERY difficult to obtain those treasure cards. Especially rebirth, cause it can pretty much only be crafted by LIFE wizards which means you need them. Plus life also gets the triage which is another rare treasure card unless you get an amulet for all those TC's. But you can only wear one amulet at a time so you wouldn't have power pips for them.

Explorer
Jun 19, 2011
90
The problem isn't the life school, it's the mastery amulets... Once a new world comes out and there is the 3pip thing, it will start to delute a little bit. Hopefully they will just get rid of the mastery amulet until the triple pip comes to town.

Explorer
Jun 13, 2010
67
bravevline wrote:
Cape36 wrote:
Something has to be done with the new updates. Now any school w/ life mastery amulet can train up satyr, as well as TC rebirths, dryads, pretty much every heal, and cards from their gear, like unicorn, AND spritely which casts almost every turn.

With storm mastery amulet, lets look at spells like stormzilla that are trainable... looking at the accuracy alone, storm wizards get accuracy boosts while other people would be stuck at 70% trying to cast a stormzilla. Both life wizards and non-life wizards alike have 90% accuracy only.

With ice mastery amulet: its useless pretty much. All you get is tower shield for 0 pips. The REAL pros of ice like high health and big resist are ice only and always will be, so the ice amulet doesn't benefit people as much as the life one does.

This is just the beginning. My point? A non-life wizard has the power to become a life wizard on their own. With spritely they can't die. Definitely a talent someone should look over. Most non-life people train life for it's HEALS. It would be useless to train any school like balance or death for their attacks, amulets or not, because those schools' damage (balance and death) percentages comes from their gear. Life's only unique part is healing, which anyone can do. No one would train life for it's weak attacks.

When another school casts a satyr with the amulet, they get all the benefits a life wiz gets: 90% accuracy, power pips included. They can also wear gear for better incoming health or outgoing health. Life wizards, unlike other schools, have no super special advantages from their gear, but they have advantages from their spells which any school can get.

Now this makes life wizards pretty much useless, with other schools training tons of satyrs and rebirths and becoming healers themselves. All we have is moderate health (less than ice) and defense as well as weak attacks. Yay, life is a dying school.
You're over looking the fact that it is VERY difficult to obtain those treasure cards. Especially rebirth, cause it can pretty much only be crafted by LIFE wizards which means you need them. Plus life also gets the triage which is another rare treasure card unless you get an amulet for all those TC's. But you can only wear one amulet at a time so you wouldn't have power pips for them.

Yup I guess. On the other hand it's been long enough, now tons of people have rebirth and triage treasure cards. In a pvp duel a storm wiz casted 2 rebirths in that one match. It's not too hard to get them. People would definitely wear the life amulet over an amulet that gives triage anyway.

It's not all about treasure cards, you can train up satyr (which is what most people do).

Adherent
Mar 18, 2009
2737
Your also forgetting that if a non-life wizard is going to use all these treasure card Life special spells and healing, they don't have the pips left to do whatever primary school they are. Mastery amulets are really just beefed up versions of the Polymorphs.

If a dungeon groups consists of a death, storm, fire and myth wizards and one of them has a life mastery amulet, then yes, I hope they try to heal like a life wizard. But I'm still looking for a life wizard if I need a life wizard. There is just no replacement for consistency. If our group needs a Rebirth, I can't rely on hope that a Death wizard has enough Rebirth Treasure Cards in their sideboard (since they are hard to get).


Survivor
Aug 22, 2009
8
I have legendary life and storm wizards, so feel qualified to address this from several perspectives. My opinion is that, of all the master amulets, the life mastery amulet has done the most to make its own school less relevant. My life wizard used to be in demand for both pvp and questing. No more. You can voice all the arguments (or I could myself), but the bottom line is that some of the enjoyment has gone out of being a life wizard. The life mastery amulet has definitely changed the social and team aspects of the game, at least for life wizards.

Survivor
Jan 18, 2009
29
honestly, as lvl60 life wiz myself, i dont mind that the mastery amulets have let others use our healing spells more efficiently. it means there are less people bugging ME to be their healer. it used to be thats all people wanted you around for. besides you all are missing what life wizards are really good at... Tanking! at least from my perspective any way.

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
Cape36 wrote:
Something has to be done with the new updates. Now any school w/ life mastery amulet can train up satyr, as well as TC rebirths, dryads, pretty much every heal, and cards from their gear, like unicorn, AND spritely which casts almost every turn.

With storm mastery amulet, lets look at spells like stormzilla that are trainable... looking at the accuracy alone, storm wizards get accuracy boosts while other people would be stuck at 70% trying to cast a stormzilla. Both life wizards and non-life wizards alike have 90% accuracy only.

With ice mastery amulet: its useless pretty much. All you get is tower shield for 0 pips. The REAL pros of ice like high health and big resist are ice only and always will be, so the ice amulet doesn't benefit people as much as the life one does.

This is just the beginning. My point? A non-life wizard has the power to become a life wizard on their own. With spritely they can't die. Definitely a talent someone should look over. Most non-life people train life for it's HEALS. It would be useless to train any school like balance or death for their attacks, amulets or not, because those schools' damage (balance and death) percentages comes from their gear. Life's only unique part is healing, which anyone can do. No one would train life for it's weak attacks.

When another school casts a satyr with the amulet, they get all the benefits a life wiz gets: 90% accuracy, power pips included. They can also wear gear for better incoming health or outgoing health. Life wizards, unlike other schools, have no super special advantages from their gear, but they have advantages from their spells which any school can get.

Now this makes life wizards pretty much useless, with other schools training tons of satyrs and rebirths and becoming healers themselves. All we have is moderate health (less than ice) and defense as well as weak attacks. Yay, life is a dying school.
I beg to differ. I love to use my ice mastery amulet combined with frozen armors, plus I enjoy seeing my colossus buds now and then. And why would I leave wyvern and blizzard out? Blizzard with gargantuan is an instant 500 to all. Plus, you can craft multi-school attack gear which give you attack power for both, and accuracy and high critical ratings. Get good ice/your school gear and with those criticals and attack boost you can do 1400 with a blizzard.

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
Cape36 wrote:
bravevline wrote:
Cape36 wrote:
Something has to be done with the new updates. Now any school w/ life mastery amulet can train up satyr, as well as TC rebirths, dryads, pretty much every heal, and cards from their gear, like unicorn, AND spritely which casts almost every turn.

With storm mastery amulet, lets look at spells like stormzilla that are trainable... looking at the accuracy alone, storm wizards get accuracy boosts while other people would be stuck at 70% trying to cast a stormzilla. Both life wizards and non-life wizards alike have 90% accuracy only.

With ice mastery amulet: its useless pretty much. All you get is tower shield for 0 pips. The REAL pros of ice like high health and big resist are ice only and always will be, so the ice amulet doesn't benefit people as much as the life one does.

This is just the beginning. My point? A non-life wizard has the power to become a life wizard on their own. With spritely they can't die. Definitely a talent someone should look over. Most non-life people train life for it's HEALS. It would be useless to train any school like balance or death for their attacks, amulets or not, because those schools' damage (balance and death) percentages comes from their gear. Life's only unique part is healing, which anyone can do. No one would train life for it's weak attacks.

When another school casts a satyr with the amulet, they get all the benefits a life wiz gets: 90% accuracy, power pips included. They can also wear gear for better incoming health or outgoing health. Life wizards, unlike other schools, have no super special advantages from their gear, but they have advantages from their spells which any school can get.

Now this makes life wizards pretty much useless, with other schools training tons of satyrs and rebirths and becoming healers themselves. All we have is moderate health (less than ice) and defense as well as weak attacks. Yay, life is a dying school.
You're over looking the fact that it is VERY difficult to obtain those treasure cards. Especially rebirth, cause it can pretty much only be crafted by LIFE wizards which means you need them. Plus life also gets the triage which is another rare treasure card unless you get an amulet for all those TC's. But you can only wear one amulet at a time so you wouldn't have power pips for them.

Yup I guess. On the other hand it's been long enough, now tons of people have rebirth and triage treasure cards. In a pvp duel a storm wiz casted 2 rebirths in that one match. It's not too hard to get them. People would definitely wear the life amulet over an amulet that gives triage anyway.

It's not all about treasure cards, you can train up satyr (which is what most people do).
What makes it easy to get them is the LIFE wizards that craft them.

Delver
Mar 13, 2011
278
Cape36 wrote:
Yay, life is a dying school.


I beg to differ, based on what I have seen life wizards do with their Forest Lord. For the last month I have been going in with life wizards as part of the team, and invariably life is the one cranking out the most damage with that thing.

I even watched a life wizard blade himself up with a mixture of balance and life blades and do ~24,000 non-critical damage on Luska. He just powned that particular instance of WW.


Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
Champion
May 03, 2011
447
I'm sorry, but what's your point here?

I believe the OP's point was that the use of life mastery amulets has made the Life School superfluous with regard to team battles--anyone can call up a Satyr pretty quickly now, so healers are far less in demand than they were before the introduction of the amulets. Since Life has few attack spells relative to other schools, its whole purpose in the game has, with the addition of these amulets, become somewhat ambiguous--if not completely undermined.

As someone training a Life through MS at present, I have to say I concur. I just got my Centaur spell, and find it rather depressing to think that I won't have another attack spell until level 58. In a nutshell, Life is far less necessary to the game as a whole, and the Life school--which presupposes, I think, a kind of altruistic outlook--has now lost its "ethical" foundation. In a kind of ironic turn-around, I find that Life wizards in the higher worlds now need my help more than I need theirs. It's not really fair to people who have trained that far in a fairly weak school. That can't have been easy.

The OP is simply asking, I think, that KI re-visit the Life school and its purpose in light of recent changes in gameplay resulting from the addition of Life Mastery Amulets.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Life has weak attacks? LOL that's the funniest thing I have ever heard...

Most people don't look for Life Wizards anymore? Have you been to Tower of the Helephant lately? They are very much in high demand!!!

The only thing I agree with, is that life, should get more of a healing boost in their gear, that specializes in healing...

Defender
Jul 08, 2009
178
Um...death's accuracy is at least 85%. I would hardly say 90% is inaccurate, and Death almost never fizzles...

And, ah, I think you might have lost me. Were you talking about mastery amulets, life school, training spells for life, or treasure cards...?

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
tabby714 wrote:
I believe the OP's point was that the use of life mastery amulets has made the Life School superfluous with regard to team battles--anyone can call up a Satyr pretty quickly now, so healers are far less in demand than they were before the introduction of the amulets. Since Life has few attack spells relative to other schools, its whole purpose in the game has, with the addition of these amulets, become somewhat ambiguous--if not completely undermined.

As someone training a Life through MS at present, I have to say I concur. I just got my Centaur spell, and find it rather depressing to think that I won't have another attack spell until level 58. In a nutshell, Life is far less necessary to the game as a whole, and the Life school--which presupposes, I think, a kind of altruistic outlook--has now lost its "ethical" foundation. In a kind of ironic turn-around, I find that Life wizards in the higher worlds now need my help more than I need theirs. It's not really fair to people who have trained that far in a fairly weak school. That can't have been easy.

The OP is simply asking, I think, that KI re-visit the Life school and its purpose in light of recent changes in gameplay resulting from the addition of Life Mastery Amulets.


Okay, thank you for explaining that. That's completely understandable and I get why one would feel that way, but...I don't. Maybe it's just because I'm somewhat forced to solo most of the time because of my inconsistent playing hours, but I find it fairly easy to defeat hoards of monsters on my own with my Theurgist. It might take a while, but I'm fine with that. If you're talking about instances where more than one person is needed, like Waterworks or the Tower of the Helephant, they're not my concern because I don't do them.

I will say I wholeheartedly agree with your point on attacks. I personally hate the fact that there's such a huge dry period where we get no spells unless we finally break down and venture into Grizzleheim/Wintertusk, and I feel it's unacceptable especially for Theurgists. It's the main reason I decided to make my Earthwalker my main pet up until I was able to finish the Lvl. 58 pet quest in Wintertusk. It'd be nice to have another own-able attack in my deck, but if there's never gonna be a way to add an attack spell somewhere in the Lvl. 49-57 range I'd be okay with it.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
tabby714 wrote:
I'm sorry, but what's your point here?

I believe the OP's point was that the use of life mastery amulets has made the Life School superfluous with regard to team battles--anyone can call up a Satyr pretty quickly now, so healers are far less in demand than they were before the introduction of the amulets. Since Life has few attack spells relative to other schools, its whole purpose in the game has, with the addition of these amulets, become somewhat ambiguous--if not completely undermined.

As someone training a Life through MS at present, I have to say I concur. I just got my Centaur spell, and find it rather depressing to think that I won't have another attack spell until level 58. In a nutshell, Life is far less necessary to the game as a whole, and the Life school--which presupposes, I think, a kind of altruistic outlook--has now lost its "ethical" foundation. In a kind of ironic turn-around, I find that Life wizards in the higher worlds now need my help more than I need theirs. It's not really fair to people who have trained that far in a fairly weak school. That can't have been easy.

The OP is simply asking, I think, that KI re-visit the Life school and its purpose in light of recent changes in gameplay resulting from the addition of Life Mastery Amulets.


Again, I understand, you are in MS, meaning Mooshu, but, and let me make this perfectly clear!

Life, is not Weak... Now, I will be a bit mean here, but, to those of you that think life is weak, it is not life, it is your playing skills...

Life, is one of the most powerful schools in the game... Especially when you get to Legendary! Have you seen a real Legendaries stats?

Also, one other benefit that life has, in game, and even in PvP... Who actually uses life shields? Not too many!

Defender
Sep 29, 2008
148
life still is top ate healing and if people spam life mastery amulet doom them or infect them in pvp and yea life does need more multi attack and attack spells but the mastery trully has nothing to do with KI not giving life enough love.

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
Life, is not Weak... Now, I will be a bit mean here, but, to those of you that think life is weak, it is not life, it is your playing skills...

:( Well, perhaps. I am willing to concede that, compared to some here, I am a poor player. I do, however, invest energy in attempting to improve, and I suspect I will play my Life more effectively with time. (If I continue to play her at all, which is a question--she's simply less fun than my Myth, Death, or Storm). But aside from the issue of Life's weakness--or not--the OP's point still stands regarding Mastery Amulets.

Defender
Sep 18, 2009
181
You seem to be basing your whole argument seems based on everybody being able to afford mastery amulets. I assure you, a very large percentage of the player base doesn't have 20K crowns to drop and many of us are solo players who aren't going to be able to run a dungeon where amulets are dropped. And free players can't even get to those dungeons without spending an even larger number of crowns.
Other than that, I love my life wizard. Her accuracy is her biggest failing, I admit. With my storm wiz at 99% and my fire at 98%, they hit far more often than she does. But she still hits often enough to be able to solo a lot better than the storm and fire do.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
tabby714 wrote:
Life, is not Weak... Now, I will be a bit mean here, but, to those of you that think life is weak, it is not life, it is your playing skills...

:( Well, perhaps. I am willing to concede that, compared to some here, I am a poor player. I do, however, invest energy in attempting to improve, and I suspect I will play my Life more effectively with time. (If I continue to play her at all, which is a question--she's simply less fun than my Myth, Death, or Storm). But aside from the issue of Life's weakness--or not--the OP's point still stands regarding Mastery Amulets.


Oh really? Does it?

Let's just see about that, shall we?

Lets start with Myth, whom you say, you prefer!

The only spell, that is not covered with the myth mastery amulet, is Medusa... Which, by all means, is not a very powerful spell! Yes, it stuns some for 2 rounds, but most bosses are stun immune in the game...
Everything other spell that myth gets, can be gotten in the game...

Fire:
Fire has Efreet... Got to love Efreet, no treasures for it, powerful, and the -90% to next attack... Other than that, every spell fire has can be gotten in the game...

Storm:
Leviathan... Very powerful spell, no treasures for it, very powerful, and removes 2 charms... Other than that, every spell for storm can be gotten in the game...

Ice:
Snow Angel... Very powerful spell, eats through shields... Highest health and universal resistance... Still the weakest school in the game...

Death:
Every spell death has, can be gotten in the game... Even skeletal dragon... What is the point of death again?

Life: How many triage treasure cards do you have? How many Rebirth treasure cards do you have? You think they are easy to come by? Can you get as many rebirth treasure cards as you can Fire Dragon or Skeletal Dragon? How about Dryad, which is more common...

Life, has Power, Health, Resistance, and tons of healing spells... Also, with life, you can choose any school to use their Mastery Amulet, you are not stuck with having to use A life Mastery Amulet, you can be whomever you like... With all the powers and privledges of being life... Can anyone else say that?

You think it is easy to get all these treasure cards for Rebirth? Ever look at the recipe? I have... They are not that easy to make or find... Who will you get to make them, if you dont have a life wizard? Oh, yes, there is rebirth on equipment, but then, you must sacrifice stats for your school... Is it worth it?

Everyone can whine and complain all they want about the Mastery Amulets... Same can be said for almost every school...

Historian
May 01, 2010
665
I looked through most of the posts here, and didnt see these facts: the max rebirth/heals you can have in non life deck is i think somewhere around 30, but the max with life is (1 minute later) is around 63! (reshuffle until you are out of mana) Not to mention counting pvp, where you have unlimited amounts of each heal!
Those are counting full 7 in your deck, with 4 pip reshuffle, and the max mana i have seen, which is 520.

And that leads me on my other point, life can actually have 7 of each heal, which with max in deck, is 42 (may have missed a heal) which is a little better than 40, max heals in non-life deck.

Also, this has been brought up, but remember, without life, there would be no rebirth treasure cards.

Besides, most people choose another school and life to heal, but. people who are really life, do it becasue they love the school.

Historian
Jan 05, 2011
658
Grandmaster to Legendary Life wizards can go critical with life spells far more often than others, plus with being able to get 100% power pip chance, they are still more effective healers than any other class with a mastery amulet. Sure, celestia crafted gear can give other classes life critical, but then they miss out on the power pip bonuses and/or resistances from other high level equipment. -eli and crew

Champion
May 03, 2011
447
Oh really? Does it?

Let's just see about that, shall we?

Lets start with Myth, whom you say, you prefer!

The only spell, that is not covered with the myth mastery amulet, is Medusa... Which, by all means, is not a very powerful spell! Yes, it stuns some for 2 rounds, but most bosses are stun immune in the game...
Everything other spell that myth gets, can be gotten in the game...


I didn't say anything about the relative power/damage potential of these schools. Please read again. I said that my Life wizard was less fun to play. For me. It was a personal assessment, not a universal condemnation of Life or any school. I've conceded I may not be playing my wizard optimally. Not sure what else I could say to simply make the point that I agree with the OP, based on my (admittedly limited) experience. I do like engaging with game questions on the forum, but do wish that things wouldn't get so personal. People disagree. People have different experiences. These viewpoints are, I think, all valid provided they are based on evidence. And btw. Medusa is an awesome spell. In my experience, and in my opinion.

Adherent
May 20, 2010
2902
So why was this thread put in The Dorms? This was started as a whine thread, not a suggestion thread. What besides the implied "Get rid of the amulets" is being suggested for dealing with the supposed problem?

KingsIsle isn't removing the Mastery Amulets. They're a source of income. There's no way to tone them down without running into programming issues.

Anybody who thinks that Life is a dying school should look at Forest Lord, when used with the right equipment and various buffs, as a previous poster suggested. My Storm wizard was doing Waterworks with two Life wizards. The Life wizard set up for damage was taking out all enemies with one shot.

Hero
Jan 24, 2010
705
slammer111 wrote:
...people who are really life, do it becasue they love the school.


Yes, yes! A Theurgist is a special wizard, usually dedicated to helping others in team encounters. It's one of the characteristics that mark us in the wizard selection questionnaire, a personality trait that leads us to compassion and other nice behaviors :)

Regarding the Life Mastery Amulet, I have 2 full theurgists and 2 wizards with life as their secondary schools. Only my death and myth wizards have yet to master life magic, and the myth gal will do so. That means that I will have 5 out of 6 wizards who chose a school that specializes in team game play. The mastery amulet, plus CL level 56 crafted gear, gardened treasures, and (very few) crafted treasures, ensure that all of my theurgists are ready to perform at the height of their potential power. There's nothing so pleasing to see as a surprised PvP opponent when my Pyromancer owns him/her with a critical Centaur. Well, except when my Sorceress casts a critical satyr on her teammate, just in time for a win!

The mastery amulets are OK on their own, but it's hard work to set a wizard up to perform as well as possible. There's an art, a craft, to life magic that isn't easy to purchase with 9000 crowns. It takes time, patience, and dedication to excel as a Theurgist. More power to anyone who reaches such a lofty aspiration and joins the ranks of Healers.

Good Healing to All,

Iridian Shadowweaver, Legendary Theurgist and Master of Ice
Scarlet Ravensong, Legendary Pyromancer and Master Theurgist
Rowan Earthsong, Legendary Sorceress and Master Theurgist
Taryn Earthsong, Novice Theurgist and noobie Pyromancer