Whenever I play a 1 vs. 1 in a ranked match, the person I play against always uses a minion! I thought it was called 1vs.1 for a reason, and not 1vs.1 +1. I think that this is unfair. Do you agree?
Its not cheating. Everyone has the ability to use a minion and they aren't like an extra player because they only have like some 500 health and aren't that powerful.
However I know people are upset with talos but it is myth's main advantages is their minions.
If you don't like fighting people with minions you know fight fire with fire try using your minion.
Whenever I play a 1 vs. 1 in a ranked match, the person I play against always uses a minion! I thought it was called 1vs.1 for a reason, and not 1vs.1 +1. I think that this is unfair. Do you agree?
-Madison Silverblade Level 44 Master Pyromancer
I don't think its cheating. As a pyromancer, you have one of the best minions in the game. Its really just a strategic decision and can backfire. For instance, if you keep some strong versions meteor shower in your side deck, you can punish almost anyone who summons a minion by using that meteor shower thus killing their minion (making them waste pips) and dealing damage to them at the same time. In the case of death, minions are rarely shielded and they can heal themselves by attacking your minion. There are always positives and negatives. :D
I am lvl 20 storm wow what up with low lvl people spam myth minion all about that spam should we report it think need be a high lvl use that spell like 50 or some thing. How is that fair. Rules have never changed in pvp think move on to other game because people have sent in reports of spam for long time still not fixed. Any way take care young wizards good lucky try fight people that cheat spam.
I think that it is UNFAIR. I am a lvl 48 and I still have never won a ranked pvp match! :( And it's way worse when the person that beats you because of their minion is barely half your leve. Minion cards should be "No PvP" just like the ones from the crown shop.
I think that it is UNFAIR. I am a lvl 48 and I still have never won a ranked pvp match! :( And it's way worse when the person that beats you because of their minion is barely half your leve. Minion cards should be "No PvP" just like the ones from the crown shop.
What's keeping you from buying some Minion Treasure Cards for yourself?
Whenever I play a 1 vs. 1 in a ranked match, the person I play against always uses a minion! I thought it was called 1vs.1 for a reason, and not 1vs.1 +1. I think that this is unfair. Do you agree?
-Madison Silverblade Level 44 Master Pyromancer
To most, Minions are not cheating, however, in my opinion, you are absolutely correct.
When a person goes into the ranked pvp lobby, they choose 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4... Yes, everyone gets a minion spell at some point... Some minions are better and cheaper spells than others... Some minions are helpful, while others do nothing but shield themself and taunt...
Yes, you can also buy minion treasure cards...
However, the point is, if you signed up for a 1v1 match, it should remain 1v1, not, like the poster said, 1v1+1...
Now, some people love minions, some people don't... Sometimes the very same minion can be helpful and sometimes that same minion might not do anything to help you, since it is an AI.
The real question is then, if you signed up for a 1v1 match, are you not good enough to win solo? Do you really require it being a 2v1 match to win? Do you lack that much skill?
To most, Minions are not cheating, however, in my opinion, you are absolutely correct.
When a person goes into the ranked pvp lobby, they choose 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4... Yes, everyone gets a minion spell at some point... Some minions are better and cheaper spells than others... Some minions are helpful, while others do nothing but shield themself and taunt...
Yes, you can also buy minion treasure cards...
However, the point is, if you signed up for a 1v1 match, it should remain 1v1, not, like the poster said, 1v1+1...
Now, some people love minions, some people don't... Sometimes the very same minion can be helpful and sometimes that same minion might not do anything to help you, since it is an AI.
The real question is then, if you signed up for a 1v1 match, are you not good enough to win solo? Do you really require it being a 2v1 match to win? Do you lack that much skill?
I have to confess, I'm surprised by your position on this. Do you think pets are cheating? What about arena gear? Treasure cards perhaps? Crowns gear? These are all things you have supported as absolutely not cheating. Why would you say minions are, particularly when myth is clearly supposed to use them based purely on the number of minion spells they possess? Like every other spell in a wizard's arsenal, minions are a strategic decision that can backfire. Decrying minions as a "lack of skill" when you have clearly supported the previous 4 points on numerous occasions seems rather contradictory to me.
It turns a 1v1 match into a two against one instead of a one against one.
It's highly unfair
but it's legal.
So deal with it.
hitmix wrote:
Whenever I play a 1 vs. 1 in a ranked match, the person I play against always uses a minion! I thought it was called 1vs.1 for a reason, and not 1vs.1 +1. I think that this is unfair. Do you agree?
To most, Minions are not cheating, however, in my opinion, you are absolutely correct.
When a person goes into the ranked pvp lobby, they choose 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4... Yes, everyone gets a minion spell at some point... Some minions are better and cheaper spells than others... Some minions are helpful, while others do nothing but shield themself and taunt...
Yes, you can also buy minion treasure cards...
However, the point is, if you signed up for a 1v1 match, it should remain 1v1, not, like the poster said, 1v1+1...
Now, some people love minions, some people don't... Sometimes the very same minion can be helpful and sometimes that same minion might not do anything to help you, since it is an AI.
The real question is then, if you signed up for a 1v1 match, are you not good enough to win solo? Do you really require it being a 2v1 match to win? Do you lack that much skill?
I have to confess, I'm surprised by your position on this. Do you think pets are cheating? What about arena gear? Treasure cards perhaps? Crowns gear? These are all things you have supported as absolutely not cheating. Why would you say minions are, particularly when myth is clearly supposed to use them based purely on the number of minion spells they possess? Like every other spell in a wizard's arsenal, minions are a strategic decision that can backfire. Decrying minions as a "lack of skill" when you have clearly supported the previous 4 points on numerous occasions seems rather contradictory to me.
Yes, it might seem contradictory, it really might, since I do support everything else...
However, I did state the obvious... When a person signs up for a match, it clearly states, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4, not 1v1+1 or 1+1v1+1, etc...
You dont get the choice on pets or treasure cards, just how many friends/opponents you get...
Now, if KI was to incorperate a selection box stating what type of match, with/without minions, with/without treasure cards, with/without pets, that would be different...
But as it stands, it does not, the only thing that is selectable, is how many players...
Does that mean that myth would be at a disadvantage without minions? Heavens no, and you know it... Myth is very powerful and very good at PvP at any level, even without minions...
So, it is not hard to see my point of view on this, while I know it is not cheating, and I know, to a lot of people, it is their strategy, to get talos or any minion to try and have a 2v1 scenario, I just think it is cheap tactics, that's all...
Ever hear the phrase mano e mano? One on One, to the end? I know the smart thing to do in a gunfight, is have a sniper on your side, with his rifle already drawn, aimed, and ready, but is that fair?
Ever hear the phrase mano e mano? One on One, to the end? I know the smart thing to do in a gunfight, is have a sniper on your side, with his rifle already drawn, aimed, and ready, but is that fair?
Pets interject things such as pierce, or spritely, or blades or towers at random throughout matches. How is that mano e mano? Every minion spell costs pips to cast. As you have told others, "you have to be prepared for anything". I fail to see how an unintelligent and rather predictable minion which costs pips to cast and which can be countered in kind by any other wizard makes the match NOT one on one. Your position is contradictory if only for the fact that you don't have problem with pets that have may cast talents.
Does that mean that myth would be at a disadvantage without minions? Heavens no, and you know it... Myth is very powerful and very good at PvP at any level, even without minions...
and I think storm is very good at PvP without blades. We should probably get rid of that too. Take away Fire's damage over time spells while we are at it, they are good with just Efreet.
I say no minions (Minion Noob!) I say no healing spells (Healing Noob!) I say no shields (Shield Noob!) I say no treasure cards (Treasure Noob!)
Only blades and attacks, now that is real PvP.
Tongue held firmly in cheek....
The more I do PvP, the more I realize there are a lot of complainers out there who want to ban anything that works against them, or doesn't help them personally. I just don't understand how something that is legal in PvP is cheating. Maybe you don't like it, but it certainly isn't cheating.
Regarding minions, I personally love them because it annoys so many people, and anything that annoys my opponent is a good thing.
it's not cheating because minion are just not that strong , you can only have one per wizard, and when you defeat the wizard who sumond it to defeat the minion goes with him.
Ever hear the phrase mano e mano? One on One, to the end? I know the smart thing to do in a gunfight, is have a sniper on your side, with his rifle already drawn, aimed, and ready, but is that fair?
Pets interject things such as pierce, or spritely, or blades or towers at random throughout matches. How is that mano e mano? Every minion spell costs pips to cast. As you have told others, "you have to be prepared for anything". I fail to see how an unintelligent and rather predictable minion which costs pips to cast and which can be countered in kind by any other wizard makes the match NOT one on one. Your position is contradictory if only for the fact that you don't have problem with pets that have may cast talents.
Pets that interject things, such as pierce, spritely, blades, towers, and etc do not do so every round. Most of these talents except spritely is very rare and even spritely in a 1v1 match does not happen often.
Yet, a minion casts a spell every round...
Yes, I have stated, "Be prepared for anything" and I still stand by that.
What I am saying, is that minions for warlords or higher levels are no big deal! However, from a lower level stand point, or a new player stand point, they are not as easy. Especially Talos! I have seen many wizards, who's whole strategy is to shield, shield, shield, cast talos, shield, shield, blade, shield shield, blade, cast minotaur.... Not saying this is a bad strategy, however, for their level and for newer players, Talos is way to powerful a minion for early low levels. You might as well bring back polymorphs!
My whole point is, you wanted a 1v1 matchup, is it that difficult for you to keep it that way? Can you not win without a minion?
As Laura has so lectured me, it is the morals, ethics, and honor that is flawed in the youth of today, can we not be and set better examples for the kids today?
Pets that interject things, such as pierce, spritely, blades, towers, and etc do not do so every round. Most of these talents except spritely is very rare and even spritely in a 1v1 match does not happen often.
That depends on the match. Some days, spritely casts every other round and then sometimes twice a round, all with no pip cost to you.
darthjt wrote:
Yet, a minion casts a spell every round...
Yes, I have stated, "Be prepared for anything" and I still stand by that.
What I am saying, is that minions for warlords or higher levels are no big deal! However, from a lower level stand point, or a new player stand point, they are not as easy. Especially Talos! I have seen many wizards, who's whole strategy is to shield, shield, shield, cast talos, shield, shield, blade, shield shield, blade, cast minotaur.... Not saying this is a bad strategy, however, for their level and for newer players, Talos is way to powerful a minion for early low levels. You might as well bring back polymorphs!
My whole point is, you wanted a 1v1 matchup, is it that difficult for you to keep it that way? Can you not win without a minion?
As Laura has so lectured me, it is the morals, ethics, and honor that is flawed in the youth of today, can we not be and set better examples for the kids today?
I don't know if you just don't get where I'm going or if you just don't want to. It is much less "unethical" to use a minion spell, which can be dispelled and costs you pips, than it is to put on commander gear while pairing with a spritely pet. While I wouldn't have a problem with a minimum level on talos treasure cards (he is a very powerful minion after all), this thread was about minions in general, not talos specifically. If you were to cut minions and minion related spells from myth, they would lose 10 spells from their trained deck. Balance, by contrast, would lose 3 and that's 1 more than everyone else. Could I take the opponent in 1v1? Probably. But how is it a fair "mano e mano" fight with one hand tied behind my back?
Myth sacrificed in a variety of areas in part because they got minions to balance it out, just like every other school sacrificed something to get their specialty. You seem to be saying that myth's specialty is unfair in a 1v1 fight. I find it no more or less fair than storm's high damage, fire's DoTs, Ice's defense and health, life's healing, death's health stealing, or Balance's use of everything and the kitchen sink. I thought this went without saying, but perhaps it doesn't... 1v1 means "1 wizard vs. 1 wizard" and bringing minions to the party does not alter that arrangement.
Is like i heard my name called to this thread that I long since thought should have been on page 3.
This is an example of a thread where a kid just walked by, posted something he would never care to read again, and left all the regular posters fighting amongst each other. >.>
It doesn't make sense.
I've never thought minions are "cheating" - even though I can understand clearly why DarthJT as a mostly legendary storm PvPer has little regard for them - our storm minion sucks squarely compared to all the other minions.
As long as the minions are 'balanced' and everyone has access to them via training or treasure cards - then I think it's still fair play. Mind you I don't think the minions of all schools are balanced right now but that's not a big problem of ours right at this moment.
Down ranking is by far, a much worse problem. While hitmix has left us all fighting here to go level and get a minion, people are down ranking to create real unfair matches all across the board 1v1 through 4v4. now yeah, that's "cheating" because our rank is supposed to be a true statement of our skill.
Pets that interject things, such as pierce, spritely, blades, towers, and etc do not do so every round. Most of these talents except spritely is very rare and even spritely in a 1v1 match does not happen often.
That depends on the match. Some days, spritely casts every other round and then sometimes twice a round, all with no pip cost to you.
darthjt wrote:
Yet, a minion casts a spell every round...
Yes, I have stated, "Be prepared for anything" and I still stand by that.
What I am saying, is that minions for warlords or higher levels are no big deal! However, from a lower level stand point, or a new player stand point, they are not as easy. Especially Talos! I have seen many wizards, who's whole strategy is to shield, shield, shield, cast talos, shield, shield, blade, shield shield, blade, cast minotaur.... Not saying this is a bad strategy, however, for their level and for newer players, Talos is way to powerful a minion for early low levels. You might as well bring back polymorphs!
My whole point is, you wanted a 1v1 matchup, is it that difficult for you to keep it that way? Can you not win without a minion?
As Laura has so lectured me, it is the morals, ethics, and honor that is flawed in the youth of today, can we not be and set better examples for the kids today?
I don't know if you just don't get where I'm going or if you just don't want to. It is much less "unethical" to use a minion spell, which can be dispelled and costs you pips, than it is to put on commander gear while pairing with a spritely pet. While I wouldn't have a problem with a minimum level on talos treasure cards (he is a very powerful minion after all), this thread was about minions in general, not talos specifically. If you were to cut minions and minion related spells from myth, they would lose 10 spells from their trained deck. Balance, by contrast, would lose 3 and that's 1 more than everyone else. Could I take the opponent in 1v1? Probably. But how is it a fair "mano e mano" fight with one hand tied behind my back?
Myth sacrificed in a variety of areas in part because they got minions to balance it out, just like every other school sacrificed something to get their specialty. You seem to be saying that myth's specialty is unfair in a 1v1 fight. I find it no more or less fair than storm's high damage, fire's DoTs, Ice's defense and health, life's healing, death's health stealing, or Balance's use of everything and the kitchen sink. I thought this went without saying, but perhaps it doesn't... 1v1 means "1 wizard vs. 1 wizard" and bringing minions to the party does not alter that arrangement.
I agree with you, people wanting minions banned from pvp is a complaint not an issue. IMO kingsisle has real issues in pvp that need to be addressed.
Pets that interject things, such as pierce, spritely, blades, towers, and etc do not do so every round. Most of these talents except spritely is very rare and even spritely in a 1v1 match does not happen often.
That depends on the match. Some days, spritely casts every other round and then sometimes twice a round, all with no pip cost to you.
darthjt wrote:
Yet, a minion casts a spell every round...
Yes, I have stated, "Be prepared for anything" and I still stand by that.
What I am saying, is that minions for warlords or higher levels are no big deal! However, from a lower level stand point, or a new player stand point, they are not as easy. Especially Talos! I have seen many wizards, who's whole strategy is to shield, shield, shield, cast talos, shield, shield, blade, shield shield, blade, cast minotaur.... Not saying this is a bad strategy, however, for their level and for newer players, Talos is way to powerful a minion for early low levels. You might as well bring back polymorphs!
My whole point is, you wanted a 1v1 matchup, is it that difficult for you to keep it that way? Can you not win without a minion?
As Laura has so lectured me, it is the morals, ethics, and honor that is flawed in the youth of today, can we not be and set better examples for the kids today?
I don't know if you just don't get where I'm going or if you just don't want to. It is much less "unethical" to use a minion spell, which can be dispelled and costs you pips, than it is to put on commander gear while pairing with a spritely pet. While I wouldn't have a problem with a minimum level on talos treasure cards (he is a very powerful minion after all), this thread was about minions in general, not talos specifically. If you were to cut minions and minion related spells from myth, they would lose 10 spells from their trained deck. Balance, by contrast, would lose 3 and that's 1 more than everyone else. Could I take the opponent in 1v1? Probably. But how is it a fair "mano e mano" fight with one hand tied behind my back?
Myth sacrificed in a variety of areas in part because they got minions to balance it out, just like every other school sacrificed something to get their specialty. You seem to be saying that myth's specialty is unfair in a 1v1 fight. I find it no more or less fair than storm's high damage, fire's DoTs, Ice's defense and health, life's healing, death's health stealing, or Balance's use of everything and the kitchen sink. I thought this went without saying, but perhaps it doesn't... 1v1 means "1 wizard vs. 1 wizard" and bringing minions to the party does not alter that arrangement.
Gtar,
I know what spells Myth has and in no way would they be Handicapped, or as you say, be "tied with one hand behind their back"... My Myth has no problems in PvP without using minions...
Now, what you seem to keep forgetting, is the level of players PvP has... Now, if you are levels 5 to 15, yes, I too thought it would be easy for them to defeat a player with a Talos minion, since Talos costs 5 pips... Now, if you have commander gear and have good resistance, and good damage boost, it is not so hard, however, for most noob wizards, they don't have great resistance, barely any damage boosts... Hitting for over 1000 damage is not such an easy task... Then, on top of that, you have only so many cards in your deck!
Now, not everyone is on our skill level also Gtarhannon, so, think how hard this would be for them... There is no way Talos should not be level capped...
Now as for other minions, some work has been done to them, however, some minions are still worthless... Balance out the minions some, then it might be fair, cause some minions are totally worthless in PvP, while some help a great deal...
Think of this from all sides, all levels, all skills, don't just think of this from your own perspective... Not everyone has the same skill...
I frankly think that with better training from Diego as to the importance of treasure cards and from Moolinda as to how to make a lot of coins through gardening, any noob would be able to afford himself a Talos.
I know what spells Myth has and in no way would they be Handicapped, or as you say, be "tied with one hand behind their back"... My Myth has no problems in PvP without using minions...
Removing from a school part of what makes them a school does make them handicapped by comparison to the other schools. It may not be an issue for you and I, but as you said...
darthjt wrote:
Now, not everyone is on our skill level
In response to Talos (since that seems to be your primary minion issue) you said:
darthjt wrote:
so, think how hard this would be for them... There is no way Talos should not be level capped...
In the post you quoted from me for this... I said:
gtarhannon wrote:
While I wouldn't have a problem with a minimum level on talos treasure cards (he is a very powerful minion after all), this thread was about minions in general, not talos specifically.
On to the next...
darthjt wrote:
Now, what you seem to keep forgetting, is the level of players PvP has... Now, if you are levels 5 to 15, yes, I too thought it would be easy for them to defeat a player with a Talos minion, since Talos costs 5 pips... Now, if you have commander gear and have good resistance, and good damage boost, it is not so hard, however, for most noob wizards, they don't have great resistance, barely any damage boosts... Hitting for over 1000 damage is not such an easy task... Then, on top of that, you have only so many cards in your deck!
Please see my above quoted comment regarding Talos treasure cards. I still don't see how using a minion in 1v1 is "cheating" (or in my opinion, even "unfair") as per the topic of this thread.
Finally...
darthjt wrote:
Now as for other minions, some work has been done to them, however, some minions are still worthless... Balance out the minions some, then it might be fair, cause some minions are totally worthless in PvP, while some help a great deal...
Think of this from all sides, all levels, all skills, don't just think of this from your own perspective... Not everyone has the same skill...
I have been trying to think about it from all sides, hence the concern about myth. I really don't know what to say to you... How many people have you told to "get a strategy" when they come here frustrated about PvP? How many times have they been coached to play practice until they can play "in the big leagues"? After all of this time, you suddenly care about others of a different skill level? I don't understand what has changed for you, but it really doesn't matter. Nothing has changed in my position. I think its fine for Talos Treasures to have a level cap (it is a level 55 spell after all), but as to the issue of minions in 1v1 being "cheating" or "unfair", no... I don't think they are.
Thank you for agreeing with me that Talos should be level capped!
Now, as for other minions, no, they are not so much of a problem...
However, my whole point is; When a player signs up for a match, they choose specifically, 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4... Not ?+1v?
So, what would be nice, is to have an options screen on ranked pvp matches that allows you to pick, if minions should be allowed... You can actually take this options screen a lot further, but I will leave it at that...
