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Why is Ice Colossus damage so low?

1
AuthorMessage
Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
So, right off the bat, I'm not suggesting anything be changed. I am extremely curious, however. I've been compiling the numbers and information for each class spell into a spreadsheet and applying some formulas looking for trends and other information. Why? Well, I'm really geeky and I actually enjoy that sort of thing. But, I came across something that I thought was bizarre. On single hit damage spells (such as colossus and helephant, etc.) I calculate two numbers. An average damage per pip, and point spread number. The average damage takes the low + high, divided by two, and then divides that by the rank of the spell. The spread is just the high minus the low.

Generally, average damage per pip increases slightly as the rank of the spell increases. While I have noticed that some rank 6 spells dip slightly (for instance, phoenix at rank 5 is 111 per pip and helephant at rank 6 is 110.833), Colossus at 83.333 damage per pip is the only rank 6 spell that is lower than the rank 1 ice beetle at 85 damage per pip. Does anyone know why that is? Has this already been talked about somewhere and perhaps KI has already addressed it? I am eager to understand the why of this particular damage decision as it seems very out of place in comparison to every other class.

Adherent
May 20, 2010
2902
This complaint appears frequently. Ice spells are less powerful than those of other schools because Ice has more Health and better shielding (e.g. Tower) than other schools.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
colagada wrote:
This complaint appears frequently. Ice spells are less powerful than those of other schools because Ice has more Health and better shielding (e.g. Tower) than other schools.


You misunderstand. I know that ice spells are less powerful. That's not the question. What I don't understand is when doing an analysis of all class spells, ice is the only class whose rank 6 spell dips below their rank 1 spell in terms of average damage per pip. While there are other classes that may have a rank 6 spell whose damage per pip is slightly less than say their rank 5 spell (which is the fire example I used), no one else has a rank 6 spell that dips down below the rank 1 spell. The question, therefore, is why?

If you were to crunch the numbers yourself, you would see that there are some very clear patterns which emerge. In terms of single hitter damage spells, this is one of the few glaring deviations. While I don't agree with every decision that KI makes, they have obviously worked very hard toward balance. What mitigating factor around the colossus spell justifies this unique drop in damage? All that springs to mind is that it has to do with the level at which the spells is received? Perhaps there is a large health increase just prior or post to this spell? I'm just trying to understand what I may be missing.

If anyone can explain it to me, it would be much appreciated.

Illuminator
Feb 09, 2009
1469
I think you're trying to measure the depth of a puddle. The answer is very simple: KI didn't think about attacks that way! They probably figured no one else would even fathom doing what you did (which oddly reminds me of Rain Man by the way lol) since this game is geared towards kids and pre-teens, which is why they just simplified the entire system. Ice magic is the weakest, but has the most powerful protection spells. That's pretty much all there is to it. I have to say, your method is definitely more lucid and profound though; maybe they should hire you.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
AkihiroHattori5 wrote:
I think you're trying to measure the depth of a puddle. The answer is very simple: KI didn't think about attacks that way! They probably figured no one else would even fathom doing what you did (which oddly reminds me of Rain Man by the way lol) since this game is geared towards kids and pre-teens, which is why they just simplified the entire system. Ice magic is the weakest, but has the most powerful protection spells. That's pretty much all there is to it. I have to say, your method is definitely more lucid and profound though; maybe they should hire you.


Well thank you, I think (definitely 345, definitely). The thing is, its pretty clear that this is the only spell that deviates so substantially from the pattern which makes it seem as though they did consider it this way, at least at some point. I guess I don't anticipate that KI would explain it to me as they may have to divulge too much, but it seems that either there is a variable that I'm missing or that someone just "made a boo boo". Judging by the overwhelmingly strong response, hehe, it would seem that few are actually interested and I really can't blame them. This is pretty nerdy stuff. I'll just put it aside for now and work on some other stuff.

Defender
Sep 28, 2010
199
gtarhannon wrote:
So, right off the bat, I'm not suggesting anything be changed. I am extremely curious, however. I've been compiling the numbers and information for each class spell into a spreadsheet and applying some formulas looking for trends and other information. Why? Well, I'm really geeky and I actually enjoy that sort of thing. But, I came across something that I thought was bizarre. On single hit damage spells (such as colossus and helephant, etc.) I calculate two numbers. An average damage per pip, and point spread number. The average damage takes the low + high, divided by two, and then divides that by the rank of the spell. The spread is just the high minus the low.

Generally, average damage per pip increases slightly as the rank of the spell increases. While I have noticed that some rank 6 spells dip slightly (for instance, phoenix at rank 5 is 111 per pip and helephant at rank 6 is 110.833), Colossus at 83.333 damage per pip is the only rank 6 spell that is lower than the rank 1 ice beetle at 85 damage per pip. Does anyone know why that is? Has this already been talked about somewhere and perhaps KI has already addressed it? I am eager to understand the why of this particular damage decision as it seems very out of place in comparison to every other class.
instead of killing everyone just say why is it lower because its the ice school there more on defence i think you have may of killed some of my brain cells i cant remember that good anymore :(

Survivor
Sep 12, 2010
11
I noticed this a while back and thought it odd. I can't think of any reason other than "boo boo" to explain it.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
pyromaniac023 wrote:
gtarhannon wrote:
So, right off the bat, I'm not suggesting anything be changed. I am extremely curious, however. I've been compiling the numbers and information for each class spell into a spreadsheet and applying some formulas looking for trends and other information. Why? Well, I'm really geeky and I actually enjoy that sort of thing. But, I came across something that I thought was bizarre. On single hit damage spells (such as colossus and helephant, etc.) I calculate two numbers. An average damage per pip, and point spread number. The average damage takes the low + high, divided by two, and then divides that by the rank of the spell. The spread is just the high minus the low.

Generally, average damage per pip increases slightly as the rank of the spell increases. While I have noticed that some rank 6 spells dip slightly (for instance, phoenix at rank 5 is 111 per pip and helephant at rank 6 is 110.833), Colossus at 83.333 damage per pip is the only rank 6 spell that is lower than the rank 1 ice beetle at 85 damage per pip. Does anyone know why that is? Has this already been talked about somewhere and perhaps KI has already addressed it? I am eager to understand the why of this particular damage decision as it seems very out of place in comparison to every other class.
instead of killing everyone just say why is it lower because its the ice school there more on defence i think you have may of killed some of my brain cells i cant remember that good anymore :(


I sorry. I really don't understand what you are saying here. Are you just saying I am too technical or are you saying its fine because its an ice spell?

Delver
Apr 02, 2010
259
Good Lord, Ice gets clothes that rule PvP, they can craft an Amulet to make a stacking Ice Blade, and they get 3 AoE's that as far as I know they ALL can be enchanted with Gargantuan. You get your choice of something that can be fired of pretty quick, something that stuns, or something that does damage over time. Nice.

What does Death get? One AoE you can only improve its Accuracy but guess what, if you go the Critical Route and craft the hat and coat, that Scarecrow goes to 95% anyways. But stuck with 400 base (+clothing boosts) and having to get 7 pips before casting. If the hit doesn't kill them all, gonna be some waiting before it can be done again. Only possible option is taking a few of those rare Simplify or Elucidate and enchant some lower pip ones. Yes, I know, Scarecrow gives you health back. But it sure would be nice to have something else instead of Skeletal Double-Poison or however its spelled.

Then, Ice has the option of buying the Starfish in Celestia for about 12,000 gold? If the one you bought doesn't work out, just go buy another! And then the cereal snack for it takes like nothing to make, only limited by your ability to log on enough times to over come the 2 hours. Frost Beetle is nothing at the Bazaar.

If you are Death, you get your Wraith and a Jellyfish, but if the both stink, tough luck, you can't just go and get another. And other schools, its either hours of farming for a Crown pet, millions in gold to try to hatch a better pet, or drop real dollars for a Crown pet, if your level 48 pet doesn't work out. And tell me what the good pet for Balance is dropped or Crowns? Even the Jade Oni, a Crowns pet that is also dropped, which name implies it would be Life (green), gives a 5-pip card and its talents are Myth. How is that good for Balance? The only possible option is the Sea Dragon for what like $20 real dollars? Ever try to go to the end of Kensington Park to try to get the Seraph or the Golem spider? Its not quick, even if you are level 60!

OK I made one small mistake, I forgot about the Ianthine Spectre pet for Death, but my point is still valid, Ice has the easiest time getting a nice pet.


Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
ic0517 wrote:
Good Lord, Ice gets clothes that rule PvP, they can craft an Amulet to make a stacking Ice Blade, and they get 3 AoE's that as far as I know they ALL can be enchanted with Gargantuan. You get your choice of something that can be fired of pretty quick, something that stuns, or something that does damage over time. Nice.

What does Death get? One AoE you can only improve its Accuracy but guess what, if you go the Critical Route and craft the hat and coat, that Scarecrow goes to 95% anyways. But stuck with 400 base (+clothing boosts) and having to get 7 pips before casting. If the hit doesn't kill them all, gonna be some waiting before it can be done again. Only possible option is taking a few of those rare Simplify or Elucidate and enchant some lower pip ones. Yes, I know, Scarecrow gives you health back. But it sure would be nice to have something else instead of Skeletal Double-Poison or however its spelled.

Then, Ice has the option of buying the Starfish in Celestia for about 12,000 gold? If the one you bought doesn't work out, just go buy another! And then the cereal snack for it takes like nothing to make, only limited by your ability to log on enough times to over come the 2 hours. Frost Beetle is nothing at the Bazaar.

If you are Death, you get your Wraith and a Jellyfish, but if the both stink, tough luck, you can't just go and get another. And other schools, its either hours of farming for a Crown pet, millions in gold to try to hatch a better pet, or drop real dollars for a Crown pet, if your level 48 pet doesn't work out. And tell me what the good pet for Balance is dropped or Crowns? Even the Jade Oni, a Crowns pet that is also dropped, which name implies it would be Life (green), gives a 5-pip card and its talents are Myth. How is that good for Balance? The only possible option is the Sea Dragon for what like $20 real dollars? Ever try to go to the end of Kensington Park to try to get the Seraph or the Golem spider? Its not quick, even if you are level 60!

OK I made one small mistake, I forgot about the Ianthine Spectre pet for Death, but my point is still valid, Ice has the easiest time getting a nice pet.



OK, well that's all great and whatnot and I'm glad you got that off your chest... but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the point of the thread. You obviously have a problem with ice, which may or may not be legitimate, but the point of this thread is to find out why there is mathematical anomaly specifically with the ice colossus spell. Would you like to contribute to that, or continue to complain about how "good" you apparently feel that ice has it now that Celestia has been released?

Delver
Apr 02, 2010
259
I'm saying you don't have a lot to complain about. So what one spell out of many is a little weak. Big deal. Looking at the overall picture, Ice was not given a bad hand.

Beside that, I'll bet you 1000 Crowns Kings Isle isn't going to change it, so you complaining about is getting you no where.

Don't forget that the various schools get different % on their blades, but you are right, Life gets the same % and Centaur hits harder per pip than Colossus, Death blade is the same and Wraith is in the middle of the range of Colossus.

Try out any of these Death Spells in PvE (PvP is another story):
Doom and Gloom - Everybody else's heals are cut in half, does nothing to help your hits.
Animate - some minions cast Doom and Gloom, and they can hit Feint and Traps with Ghoul when they are full health and you are almost dead.
Minion spells - see above.
Beguile - only effective against mixed school mobs in Celestia (when a Storm hits a Storm with a Storm spell, not a lot happens).
Sacrifice - very hard to use with critical
Empower - ditto
Infection - not too many monsters heal
Plague - white pip eater, and the monsters casting small spells that who cares if they were reduced.
Skeletal Dragon - IMO only good if soloing against Life or Ice.

Only Skeletal Dragon of the above list is in my Death's deck, the rest are no-shows.

I recall reading an article how KI spent hours with spreadsheets and analysises (sp?) about how the spells would interact and the fairness of the various schools back at the beginning.

My guess is KI gave Ice some more in Celestia to make up for mistakes in the past, and one of the mistakes is Ice Colossus. Hey, at least you aren't Storm, stuck with a now worthless spell and don't have a decent DOT or heal for PvP.

But you can overcome the weakness of Colossus, Death gets to do it all the time. If you have one opponent, you can lay on Ice Blade, Element Blade, Ice Blade Treasure, Element Blade Treasure, Ice Trap, Ice Trap Treasure, Blue Ice Trap, Feint, Blue card Feint, etc, until you get the hit you want. Personally I would train up to Feint in Death, and seeing how you are Ice you should have no problem taking the increased damage caused by the trap on you. Obviously in a mob trying to get load everyone up with all those traps and Feints might not work, but you probably weren't planning on using Colossus for that anyways, seeing how you get 3 AoEs.

My son is Ice and he mows them down in Marleybone faster than his father can because he has Blizzard, Ice Blade Treasures from his father's Sickle plants, and the Ceruelean Edge Wand.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
ic0517 wrote:
I'm saying you don't have a lot to complain about. So what one spell out of many is a little weak. Big deal. Looking at the overall picture, Ice was not given a bad hand.


First and foremost, I never complained. Its all there in the first post. I saw a mathematical anomaly in the Ice Colossus spell and I was wondering if there was a variable I had missed which explained it. I never said Ice was dealt a bad hand. I was happy being Ice back before Celestia was released when they used to get ridiculed all the time for being "weak".

ic0517 wrote:
Beside that, I'll bet you 1000 Crowns Kings Isle isn't going to change it, so you complaining about is getting you no where.


Of course they're not. I never requested that they consider it. In fact, my opening sentance in this thread was "So, right off the bat, I'm not suggesting anything be changed." specifically so that people would not misunderstand me and think this thread was a complaint.

ic0517 wrote:
Don't forget that the various schools get different % on their blades, but you are right, Life gets the same % and Centaur hits harder per pip than Colossus, Death blade is the same and Wraith is in the middle of the range of Colossus.

Try out any of these Death Spells in PvE (PvP is another story):
Doom and Gloom - Everybody else's heals are cut in half, does nothing to help your hits.
Animate - some minions cast Doom and Gloom, and they can hit Feint and Traps with Ghoul when they are full health and you are almost dead.
Minion spells - see above.
Beguile - only effective against mixed school mobs in Celestia (when a Storm hits a Storm with a Storm spell, not a lot happens).
Sacrifice - very hard to use with critical
Empower - ditto
Infection - not too many monsters heal
Plague - white pip eater, and the monsters casting small spells that who cares if they were reduced.
Skeletal Dragon - IMO only good if soloing against Life or Ice.

Only Skeletal Dragon of the above list is in my Death's deck, the rest are no-shows.

I recall reading an article how KI spent hours with spreadsheets and analysises (sp?) about how the spells would interact and the fairness of the various schools back at the beginning.

My guess is KI gave Ice some more in Celestia to make up for mistakes in the past, and one of the mistakes is Ice Colossus. Hey, at least you aren't Storm, stuck with a now worthless spell and don't have a decent DOT or heal for PvP.


*sigh* Again, I wasn't complaining. I have no intention of getting into the wild bolt debate here. I have posted lengthy dissertations on my stance in that thread.

ic0517 wrote:
But you can overcome the weakness of Colossus, Death gets to do it all the time. If you have one opponent, you can lay on Ice Blade, Element Blade, Ice Blade Treasure, Element Blade Treasure, Ice Trap, Ice Trap Treasure, Blue Ice Trap, Feint, Blue card Feint, etc, until you get the hit you want. Personally I would train up to Feint in Death, and seeing how you are Ice you should have no problem taking the increased damage caused by the trap on you. Obviously in a mob trying to get load everyone up with all those traps and Feints might not work, but you probably weren't planning on using Colossus for that anyways, seeing how you get 3 AoEs.

My son is Ice and he mows them down in Marleybone faster than his father can because he has Blizzard, Ice Blade Treasures from his father's Sickle plants, and the Ceruelean Edge Wand.


I'm not looking for ways to overcome. I already know how to do that. I merely had an intellectual curiosity. That's it. I've never had a hard time playing any school and I applaud KI for doing such a good job of balancing everything out overall.

Explorer
Dec 21, 2008
71
I am Level 60 Ice and I can safely say this. I could NOT care how low my damage is with my spells. Each school learns to work out it's own weaknesses (such as ice school's low damage or storm school's VERY low health). When you get higher up in the levels start learning spells that amplify damage (like gargantuan and feint, THEY REALLY HELP!).

At level 60 I have 4 THOUSAND health and over 600 mana (thanks to my pet). Damage is not something you really worry about when you can tank almost any hit thrown your way. As for the damage statistics your explaining here, is that 0.33 whatever your missing from colossus really going to get you killed that often? I personally doubt it, cause it hasn't gotten me killed once.

Ryan Frostshard - Legend of the Ice Arts

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Does no one read anymore? This thread has never ever ever been a complaint or a concern that the damage difference would get me killed or that its unfair. This was about asking if I was missing anything from my equations so that they could balance. This one spell doesn't. Its not a big deal, I was simply curious. Why do people read so much into things?

Delver
Sep 18, 2009
258
Are you measuring the highest damge it does lowest damage it does or the middle damge? The midlle damage is the best. And he is talking about base damage not blades and traps.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
wiler5002 wrote:
Are you measuring the highest damge it does lowest damage it does or the middle damge? The midlle damage is the best. And he is talking about base damage not blades and traps.


The average damage, so yeah, the middle one. :)

Survivor
Aug 11, 2009
11
I have noticed this too, and i think I have a reasonable hypothesis. At level 42, the level you obtain Ice Colossus, you have just recieved Ice Blade, but my main reason why I believe Ice Colossus is so weak is because at that point an Ice Wizard has enough defense spells and an incredible amount of life to the point where giving him an extremely powerful spell would be overpowering ice just a little, and also I'm sure you have noticed that Life spells and Ice spells have the same damage up untill Centaur and Ice Colossus, so why change there? I also think that Ice's incredible defense causes this occurance as well, and notice all the rest of Life spells accept the level 58 spell have to do with healing. In conclusion I believe that at level 42 KI wants you to realize your school's role ex. Life healing, Fire damage over time, Ice defense, Myth minions etc.

I hope this was helpfull and not a waste of your time :D

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
19Quin wrote:
I have noticed this too, and i think I have a reasonable hypothesis. At level 42, the level you obtain Ice Colossus, you have just recieved Ice Blade, but my main reason why I believe Ice Colossus is so weak is because at that point an Ice Wizard has enough defense spells and an incredible amount of life to the point where giving him an extremely powerful spell would be overpowering ice just a little, and also I'm sure you have noticed that Life spells and Ice spells have the same damage up untill Centaur and Ice Colossus, so why change there? I also think that Ice's incredible defense causes this occurance as well, and notice all the rest of Life spells accept the level 58 spell have to do with healing. In conclusion I believe that at level 42 KI wants you to realize your school's role ex. Life healing, Fire damage over time, Ice defense, Myth minions etc.

I hope this was helpfull and not a waste of your time :D


That's an interesting thought, and this is a topic I haven't talked about in quite some time. While I'll have to mull it over for a while, I had previously come to the conclusion that it was indeed an oversight. Stay with me on this one... Life in the spirit group is similar to ice in the elemental group. They both have weak spells that are the most accurate of their group and they both have a focus on spells that make them very, very hard to kill. Their comparative rank 6 spells are Centaur (515-595) and Colossus (460-540). However, the treasure card versions of these spells are TC Centaur (610-670) and TC Colossus (600-680) which have identical average damage at 640 each. It seems that no other treasure card jumps as much as colossus either, and that is why I had concluded it was a mistake that they finally corrected.

I will go back and look at my notes and weigh your new insight... its interesting, and definitely not a waste of time. :D

Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332

I dare not dabble in the minds of intellectuals but the questions raised are of some interest.

Whilst I cannot propose to know what accounts for the difference in the per pip value of ice collossus as oppose to other rank 6 spells, I can say that Ice is very strong on defense and that may account for the low damage per pip awarded to ice collossus.

I also found it peculiar that we learned ice blade at level 38! Taking that into account , I have deduced that this was geared towards balancing the game so that ice is not more powerful than the other schools.

As to whether or not the anomoly is intentional or an oversight; I'd have to say based on the fact that this is a kid friendly game, it could be an oversight. But given the tenacity that KI have towards fine tuning the game, I would concur that it's intentional.

This doesn't handicap ice in any way so let's get on with it, shall we?

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
NicoUzumaki wrote:

This doesn't handicap ice in any way so let's get on with it, shall we?


Hey Nico (can I call you Nico?). Ice was my first wizard, and no, it certainly didn't handicap me. I finished the game quite some time before I ever started this thread. I have to confess, I was disappointed when I got colossus (I mean, level 42 for the weakest single hitter spell per pip in the game?) but I still used it. As with every class, there are ways around the limitations. But this thread isn't meant to be a place to complain or ask for anything to be changed. It was a place to work out the math that largely shows how in balance this game really is. This spell was a significant anomaly to an otherwise fairly straight forward mathematical balance, leading me to wonder what variable I may have been missing.

In terms of playing the game, no, it doesn't matter and it shouldn't stop people from playing. But I do still find the topic interesting, if for no other reason, because it largely shows how good a job KI has done in balancing the game. I mean really, I have only seen this one mathematically significant anomaly. Everything else seems to largely balance, or at least certainly within tolerance given other considerations such as health and whatnot. At least, that is my two cents on the topic.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
gtarhannon wrote:
NicoUzumaki wrote:

This doesn't handicap ice in any way so let's get on with it, shall we?


Hey Nico (can I call you Nico?). Ice was my first wizard, and no, it certainly didn't handicap me. I finished the game quite some time before I ever started this thread. I have to confess, I was disappointed when I got colossus (I mean, level 42 for the weakest single hitter spell per pip in the game?) but I still used it. As with every class, there are ways around the limitations. But this thread isn't meant to be a place to complain or ask for anything to be changed. It was a place to work out the math that largely shows how in balance this game really is. This spell was a significant anomaly to an otherwise fairly straight forward mathematical balance, leading me to wonder what variable I may have been missing.

In terms of playing the game, no, it doesn't matter and it shouldn't stop people from playing. But I do still find the topic interesting, if for no other reason, because it largely shows how good a job KI has done in balancing the game. I mean really, I have only seen this one mathematically significant anomaly. Everything else seems to largely balance, or at least certainly within tolerance given other considerations such as health and whatnot. At least, that is my two cents on the topic.


While I completely agree, KI has done an excellent job of balancing the game and all the schools, I have to wonder about one thing.

The Balefrost Amulet gives exactly the same as what Ice can cast as well as the Colossus Amulet. No enchantments of any kind. Was this intentional, or an oversight?

As far as the reasons colossus does such a low damage rate, well, with the high health, great resist, ice does have the highest boosts in the game. Ice blade 40%, Balefrost, 45% with Treasure Card, 30% trap, 40% treasure traps. Taking these into consideration also might be the reason that the damage factor was lowered.

Which brings me back to the Amulets. Storm and Fire both get increases from what they cast to the Amulet. Why is Ice's Amulet exactly the same as what ice can cast?

Survivor
Jan 22, 2011
10
Perhaps it has to do with the factoring of Blades and traps...

Ice does recieve a strong blade around the time you learn colossus. 40% makes up some ground for the lower strength spells of ice.

Mastermind
Jun 13, 2009
332
gtarhannon wrote:
NicoUzumaki wrote:

This doesn't handicap ice in any way so let's get on with it, shall we?


Hey Nico (can I call you Nico?). Ice was my first wizard, and no, it certainly didn't handicap me. I finished the game quite some time before I ever started this thread. I have to confess, I was disappointed when I got colossus (I mean, level 42 for the weakest single hitter spell per pip in the game?) but I still used it. As with every class, there are ways around the limitations. But this thread isn't meant to be a place to complain or ask for anything to be changed. It was a place to work out the math that largely shows how in balance this game really is. This spell was a significant anomaly to an otherwise fairly straight forward mathematical balance, leading me to wonder what variable I may have been missing.

In terms of playing the game, no, it doesn't matter and it shouldn't stop people from playing. But I do still find the topic interesting, if for no other reason, because it largely shows how good a job KI has done in balancing the game. I mean really, I have only seen this one mathematically significant anomaly. Everything else seems to largely balance, or at least certainly within tolerance given other considerations such as health and whatnot. At least, that is my two cents on the topic.


Well you certainly can call me Nico, that's my name actually. I perfectly understand the reason behind your post. But I submit to you that with regards to the matter in question, you'll never be able to figure out this anomaly you so prescribe unless you:

1. have factual information that this is indeed an error on the part of KingsIsle Entertainment;

2. can determine the method or system of calculation used in assigning the damage amount or percentage to each spells;

3. can determine the factors that influenced the methods employed.

Until you can ascertain the factors mentioned above and maybe others that I have not thought of, then you will continue to be at odds with the Colossus discrepancy.

I am not sure what you hoped to have gained by posting this thread since KingsIsle would not be at liberty to respond to this post. They have a responsibility to their company in respect of certain issues and as a matter of principle they could not propose to divulge the intricacies of their gaming mechanics.

You ought to have known that given the level of intelligence i detect in your post.

You certainly won't get an answer from KingsIsle with respect to the calculations behind the Colossus damage ratio other than the arguments already proffered here.

You may be better served asking others to help you solve this puzzle :D

I hope you do not find the tone of my writing to be offensive because it is not intended as such.


Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
NicoUzumaki wrote:
Well you certainly can call me Nico, that's my name actually.


Cool. I was hoping not to presume too much. :D

NicoUzumaki wrote:

I perfectly understand the reason behind your post. But I submit to you that with regards to the matter in question, you'll never be able to figure out this anomaly you so prescribe unless you:

1. have factual information that this is indeed an error on the part of KingsIsle Entertainment;

2. can determine the method or system of calculation used in assigning the damage amount or percentage to each spells;

3. can determine the factors that influenced the methods employed.

Until you can ascertain the factors mentioned above and maybe others that I have not thought of, then you will continue to be at odds with the Colossus discrepancy.


Very, very true. Obviously I will never obtain information about item 1 unless I were to work for them at some point. Item 2, on the other hand, well that's the item that is the cause for this post. As you work the numbers, you can see very clear and consistent patterns for that system across all classes of magic. This lone spell is the one glaring deviation. As to item 3, that's more to the purpose of the post. Asking others for ideas as to what factors I may have over looked.

NicoUzumaki wrote:
I am not sure what you hoped to have gained by posting this thread since KingsIsle would not be at liberty to respond to this post. They have a responsibility to their company in respect of certain issues and as a matter of principle they could not propose to divulge the intricacies of their gaming mechanics.

You ought to have known that given the level of intelligence i detect in your post.


I hoped to gain nothing. I thought it would be fun to talk about and discuss. I've never been inclined to let the assurance of never having an answer stop me from asking questions, whether those questions be big ones such as the purpose of life or small ones such as what is the sound of one hand clapping. I enjoy the journey and I find arriving at my destination to generally be somewhat of a let down. I thought that there may be other like minded people on these forums. I'm actually surprised this thread is alive again. There was little response initially and it has laid dormant for quite some time until just recently.

NicoUzumaki wrote:
You certainly won't get an answer from KingsIsle with respect to the calculations behind the Colossus damage ratio other than the arguments already proffered here.

You may be better served asking others to help you solve this puzzle :D

I hope you do not find the tone of my writing to be offensive because it is not intended as such.


I agree. I never intended for KI to answer. And no, I don't find your tone offensive.

Survivor
Oct 06, 2008
3
gtarhannon wrote:
So, right off the bat, I'm not suggesting anything be changed. I am extremely curious, however. I've been compiling the numbers and information for each class spell into a spreadsheet and applying some formulas looking for trends and other information. Why? Well, I'm really geeky and I actually enjoy that sort of thing. But, I came across something that I thought was bizarre. On single hit damage spells (such as colossus and helephant, etc.) I calculate two numbers. An average damage per pip, and point spread number. The average damage takes the low + high, divided by two, and then divides that by the rank of the spell. The spread is just the high minus the low.

Generally, average damage per pip increases slightly as the rank of the spell increases. While I have noticed that some rank 6 spells dip slightly (for instance, phoenix at rank 5 is 111 per pip and helephant at rank 6 is 110.833), Colossus at 83.333 damage per pip is the only rank 6 spell that is lower than the rank 1 ice beetle at 85 damage per pip. Does anyone know why that is? Has this already been talked about somewhere and perhaps KI has already addressed it? I am eager to understand the why of this particular damage decision as it seems very out of place in comparison to every other class.
Colossus needs to have more damage because Frostbite is the rank 5 ice spell but then just makes Colossus a waste of pips. When Frostbite is used it does 560 damage. Colossus can sometimes go lower then that amount.

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