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Lying about age for open chat?

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Mar 28, 2009
36
Sojourna wrote:
Let me be clear. I understand what you are saying. I even understand the actions you took and now that you posted it I took the time to read COPPA.

However that said and even after reading the site on COPPA. I think you still over-reacted. We are not talking about kids talking to 40 year olds nor being offensive. That is not the conversation here, you may want to introduce that to blur the issue but its not the topice.

Before open chat there were adults online here there a great number of us on this game, and not all of the adults here are good people like you are I. Oh and I do think you are a good person with great intentions. However, those people the adults you worry about are the ones who teach kids how to get around the filters. So I will say to you as I have said in other post the responsibilty of your children are all YOURS. You need to watch them, that is a fact.

However, what you did even it was out of concern went beyond what was necessary. You simply laughed at his response that you filed a false report (and that is what I meant about "giggling") and I think he was right.

You reported him for not being old enough and you had no idea how or why he had open chat. And you STILL DON'T you didnt even bother to ask.

While the "WT?" may have been a bit much, in truth he didn't actually cuss - even if that what it meant. My mother didn't allow us to say heck when i was young yet they said it on tv all the time. I asked why she said it was too much like bell with an H. I respected that because she was my mother. But in truth out of ear shot my i said it all the time and no one thought twice about it. Why? Because it wasn't a cuss word no matter what it eluded to it was still not a cuss.

This is similar to your experience except you were NOT this child's mother therefore your standards of how he should behave is not really important. What is important is that HE did NOT break any rules written or implied by KI. Sorry that you feel he has no business using the open chat but that is YOUR oppinion and i would be extremely dissappointed with KI if they found the report in your favor.

Its people like you that make it hard to have a happy medium because you want the internet to watch and babysit the world to suit your sensibilities. KI does a great job of this in my oppinion but to push this to the extreme is a mistake. This is one of the reason why I disagreed with a post awhile ago where the members offered to be monitors. Because there will always be someone like you who feels dispite this being a paid service no one should do more than you allow them to or think they should.

Its a hall monitor way of thinking, and if I am not mistaken, while the kid you are talking about isn't out of school you ARE and should be well beyond this narrow minded way of thinking by now.

I am hope I am not being too offensive, I am not really trying to call you a bad person. I am simply pointing out that your behavior was too over the top and the fact that you posted it as if waiting for a high five means you aren't aware of how much you over reacted to this.

This about it. That said I think I am done with this topic.
well said. i agree. only parents should dictate their children and restrict them. i hope that kid doesnt get his account terminated.

Defender
May 28, 2009
176
MissNat wrote:
Well, you lying about your child's age so they can have open chat can get this site in trouble with COPPA.


No it can't. COPPA was designed to protect child identity. The only identity information this site asks for is DOB. There is no name, SSN, zip, address, personal email, or anything else that can help someone to identify a child as an individual. The only email address that is asked for is the Parental Email address. Which is specifically identified as a requirement in the COPPA regulations. The only reason things could cross the line is if, as you stated, a child were to go and buy a gift card credit card and sign up as a subscriber. Then they would STILL have to willingly input their name and address information. Even at this point KI has complied and fulfilled their obligations. They cannot be held liable for someone lying.
Your posting extreme examples with half truths to back them up. Coming here and yelling "COPPA" about this issue is like screaming OSHA whenever someone spills a coffee.

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
410
Outstanding post Zigmon and absolutely true! As I mentioned I read the COPPA site and it is posted completely for all to read.

It is a great law that is back and under the control of the FCC. However, this isn't a COPPA decision its one to be made by clearified by KI.

I read Miss Nat's post from and to KI and they may have said they will investigate this issue they never said that it was a violation.

That said should KI decide to shut this chat down or dissmiss the charges being made by Miss Nat than I would be interested in the out come. I also would like to suggest that they allow the account hold (like me) to issue chat to the individual wizards. This way I can still have open chat and my oldest son, who is not quite old enough for it can not use it being he is sharing my account.

As it stand each account has a one size fits all approach to this. As we share crowns we also share settings. I can not ask my son to NOT talk simply because his account and mine are one in the same.

Survivor
Oct 18, 2008
48
guys guys, people under 13 can use text chat, i am 10 (is it ok if i say this), and i can use it, i got my parents permision, when i tell my friends i am 10, sometimes i get, "but... text chat?" i say "Parents permission"
and then other times i get "wow, your a good player for 10 blah blah blah "
You cant report people under 13 for using text chat or people under 18 for using open chat, maybe they got parents permission

Survivor
Nov 25, 2008
35
Bravo!!!!!!!!~ Sojourna&Zigmon :)

since i joined the game sometime last year i have been reported 2x and both reports because i reported them (ugh)
Now, the other day i got reported just for standing there. Now my concern still stands..if KI is not investigating "false reports" am i going to get sanctioned?? Is my account in the hands of other players that feel they want to report people for no reason??

and my last post, was never posted by KI. Is it cause it's true?? KI does not investigate "report" logs???


Explorer
Apr 02, 2009
52
I believe it is up to the parent if their child can have open chat. KI cant be held resposible for a child lying about their age. They can suggest the age limits for the chats and then the parents have to make the best choice for their child.

I see no problem with Adults and kids playing together. And a parent should take an interest in what that child is doing. Have the computer in the living room so you can watch them. And come up and look at what they are doing at times. See who they are friends with.







Explorer
Feb 16, 2009
98
1. You SHOULD be 13 and under to use text chat
2. It is up to the adult of a child under 13 to use Text chat, and if someone is under the age of 13 and does have Text chat that is because the parent approves of it. You shouldnt report him for being under 13
3. Reporting is used for bad language or giving away personal information.

- Jasmine BlueGem Lvl 45 Thaumaturge
The Purifier

Explorer
Jan 07, 2009
96
MENU CHAT = 13 and under.
TEXT CHAT = 13-18.
OPEN CHAT = 18+.

If parents decide their kids are responsible enough for Open Chat or Text Chat, that's OK, that's the parents' business, not yours. I'm only 11, and I use Text Chat with permission because my mom decides I'm ready for it (I play without cursing or rude behavior). The only reason you should report players for things like this is if they swear, like the WT? thing. Because what if a parent decides that their kid is ready for Open/Text Chat and you report them just because they're young? If they swear, report them for swearing. But otherwise, just stay put.

Defender
Apr 28, 2009
113
just so you know, if you're under thirteen you can get open chat, as long as you have permission from your parents. however you must ask them and they have to say yes. i did not lie about my age, instead i asked my mom and she changed it to text chat. still i think people in wizard101 should stop using innocent words to make really bad ones. KI should make a filter for detecting disguised swear words. all hail the ninja pigs!!!

Survivor
Dec 19, 2008
14
When I started playing, I was 12 and had open chat because I had permission from my parents.

maybe they did too.
Dumb reason to report, if you ask me.
no offense intended.

Explorer
May 31, 2008
54
After reading this topic, and seeing the arguments presented and reading there evidence, i agree with Sojourna. You overeacted. Kids talk to adults all the time, i mean your kids talk to you, they talk to your teacher, now even with filtered chat they talked to adults, and there were still ways of engaging in inapropriate converstion, now everyone on my list has some form of chat, and they use it responsibly, I have only reported 2 people in my time in Wizard101.

I played in beta and i signed up on the day this game came out, My subscription was the yearly plan.

what you are doing; you are taking the extremes and putting them together into the vaguest possible sense, who are you to tell a parent how to teach there child. There are different parental styles.

Now lets go into the psycological side of things(sorry i can't spell it right) if a kid is on the computer, enjoying themselves, would they enjoy the company of someone they barely know???

ok this is a possiblity, now what you reported is FALSE. It has an unstable base.

i can't find a way to express myself properly in this thread so if you want to understand properly what i am getting at MissNat then read Sojourna and zigmons' post.

Survivor
May 28, 2009
16
MasterCowboy wrote:

I must agree with you Sojourna, in this case you over reacted MissNat. As KI stated in the email that I posted, lying and bad manners is not a reportable offense. The "WT?" may have been but that is even questionable now.

Because false reporting can be
construed and/or used as harassment of other players, we’d like to
take a moment to ensure you are aware of what does NOT fall under the
category of a reportable offense:



“S/he falsely reported me” or reporting someone for false reporting (2
wrongs don’t make a right)

“Won’t leave my house” (pick your friends wisely and avail yourself of
the non-porting option)

“Being rude” (We’re sorry, we can’t enforce good manners. Use the
ignore button liberally &/or change realms. It’s wholly up to you to
choose to stay around someone that’s not nice to you.)

“Chain Stunning” (admittedly, it’s not much fun for the receiving
team, but it’s not a violation of the game rules).

“Scamming” (KingsIsle will NEVER ask for treasure card(s) in exchange
for a code. Trading “cards for codes” is done at the players’ own
risk. Codes are either fully public or one time use)

“Spamming” (Although the Terms of Use mention spamming, it’s related
to email/web posts. Yeah, it’s annoying in game and never of profound
statement. Refer to “Being Rude”).

Again, we do appreciate you wanting to make Wizard City the best it
can be, however, we need the reporting feature to function as a
mechanism to identify truly egregious behavior, such as creative
profanity (swearing around the filters), solicitation of
usernames/passwords, predatory threats, racist comments and other such
actions as outlined in the Terms of Use.


I am still waiting for someone at KI to respond to our posts as well Sojourna, as it stands now however, I seriously doubt if they ever will do so. Seems its a case of, leave it alone and it will go away. Not this time KI. Too many have voiced concerns and someone needs to be responsible at KI for "dropping the ball" on this one. Question is, who at KI is willing to take responsibility for their actions?

James DreamRider
lvl 45 Master
Balance School
No Retreat, No Surrender and
No One gets left Behind
USArmy Retired


MissNat I am sorry but I mus agree with the rest of the adults. You have overreacted and you cannot force a child to be polite or well mannered. While this I do not agree with it is not a violation. I am so glad that the "Rules" have been clearly stated above. The one that gets me is the "getting scammed." I hear so much complaining in the game and outside about this. However, if the child or adult falls for the scam it is their own fault. It is not stealing because you must agree to give your card a away it is not like they can take them from you. So next time instead of over reacting like you did this time, make sure the child and/or adult has "broken the rules."

Thank You once again for posting these rules MasterCowboy, and Everyone have a good day...

Evan MoonBright (Death)

Survivor
May 28, 2009
16
MissNat wrote:
Sojourna wrote:
MissNat wrote:
It is set for 18+ for a reason.
If KI wanted the under 18s to have open chat, they wouldn't have made age specific chats, so all in all, it's considered "cheating" in my book.
And, as I did say, the kid DID do something wrong.
He worked around the filters in order to try & curse.
He said "WT?", which the majority of people that use the internet, KNOW what that "?" stands for.
Also, you can't deem my report as a "false report" because no one from KI has stated anything of the sort.. I asked my question in hopes that KI could inform us on what to do.
I'm an adult.. Last thing I need is to see a bunch of kids lying for the open chat feature just to cause trouble.

Also, you do NOT need an adult/parent to pay for a subscription or anything.
If a kid gets an allowance, he/she can easily go to WalMart & get a prepaid credit card.. Or go to 7-11/CVS & get one of the Gift Cards.

But, if the kids are going to continue lying about their age & blatantly admitting to it, then what's the point in having an 18+ chat?


My point is you are taking this personally. You seem to be making the point that this feature is for adults only and you are willing to have someone lose there account just to prove it.

All I am saying, and I say this both as an adult and parent, is that many of the kids who have accounts share ONE with their parents. I share one with my oldest and my youngest has his own because it is no chat. My youngest gets the benefits of open chat because I do. That is mostly in part to the fact that he is too big to have chat taken from him like my baby and I trust his judgement. It is my decision as a paying customer and I accept responsibilty. Quite frankly I don't think he is being exposed to any more than before the chat was changed.

Now as far as the WT? comment, didn't you say you were in pvp? In that case the audience was basically you and him and he was not "exposing" anyone else to the letter but you. You have every right to be offended and could have told him as much instead of trying to get him banned. Not to mention in your earlier post you seemed almost HAPPY to report him. You stated you giggled or something like that and you were more than happy with it because "he lied." Yet you have no proof he lied. He could very well be same stituation as my son. But even if this is an unacceptable situation in you mind you could have done a number of things to distance yourself.

Instead you chose to endanger his account to teach him a lesson. If this was his allowance and he saved up to buy a card and subscribe you were making sure that this lesson was a costly one.

I agree with the poster who said that your behavior is childish and I will add unfair. If someone ANYONE misuses the open chat feature you are well in your rights to report them, and I support you. However, the chat 18+ (which should be limited to credit card accounts) is not your personal excuse to go after kids and this seems to be the main point of all your earlier posts.

If you want a game that is adult only than this one isn't it. And while the open chat feature is an adult priviledge it is NOT your mission to "clean the system" and enforce this.


Concerning my "giggling", it was over him telling me that *I* would lose my account.
Also, it was 2v2 PVP, so there were 2 other people in there.
As I told him, they would more an likely just revoke his chat feature & just put him back as text chat instead.
Also, if your kids are playing, shouldn't they also have accounts?
You as the Master account owner would be able to make his chat Text chat rather than Open chat.
But again, as I said, he said he was the "Master" of his account, so nothing would be done to him.
Children are naive and vulnerable.
They can be easily taken advantage of, especially without the filters that Text chat has.
As I said, a child is now able to easily hand out a phone number or something else of that sort.
I can guarantee this site would be great for certain types of adults that like to take advantage of kids.
A 40yr old could see this site advertised, come here & realize that kids play.. Now that there's Open chat, they could be hoping and waiting that a child has lied about their age, then take things from there.

I'm not taking this "personally" or "going after him".
Lying about your age to make yourself SEEM like an adult is basically a security issue & I bet this site complies with COPPA.
If I was one of the owners of this site, I would take lying about ones age a big problem.

I never lied about my age to access anything, ever.. I was TAUGHT better than that.


Children are Niave and Vunerable!!! Some may be but you are treating them as a whole and not all children make wrong decisions. It seems that you want to woorld to be perfect and you are the PERFECT parent. It is sad that you think that and it seems like you joined this game only to make other players gameplay miserable. You are on the hunt for people doing the wrong thing.

FIRST of all you are not reporting people doing something too break the rules.
SECOND you are not a moderator so let them do there job. If you see someone misbehaving report them then. But don't "go on the hunt" for them.

Wow you are out of control......

Survivor
May 28, 2009
16
MissNat wrote:
Kids have friends.
Whose to say they don't just jump on their friends computer?

As for everyone ASSUMING (you know what they say about those that ASSUME) that it was a "false report", KI has not mailed me nor have they clarified this.

As I already said, Professor Greyrose said that 18+ chat is for just that, 18+.
Why do you feel the need for your CHILD to have OPEN chat?
Text chat is just fine for them to manage around the game.. Why should they have the ability to type out numbers? Or say certain words?

None of you are explaining WHY your CHILD *must* have an open chat with other ADULTS.
People would throw a fit if a 14 year old was talking to several adults if it were anywhere else, so why is here any different?
If my 14 year old was lying about their age just so they can chat with adults or whatever their reason may be, I'd be taking my kids internet privileges away.

Until KI confirms that this is allowed or not, there's no need for you to say I'm supposedly "wrong" for doing what I did.
You're not one of the owners, mods, staff, whatever on here.. So, you don't know the true answer.


WELL WHY ARE YOU NOT EXPLAINING WHY EXACTLY THE *MUST NOT?* This my question??????

Survivor
May 14, 2009
23
DPVSaint wrote:
If he was 14 that's okay. You have to be at least 13 for open chat.


hold on WHAT????? you have to be at least 13???? I thought if you were under 18 and your parents got crowns or a subscription for you they could create a parental password and they could allow you to have open chat

Geographer
Feb 15, 2009
992
I allow my child to have open chat because I am his parent and I believe it is MY choice in what he can and cant do you should not tell ANYONE how to raise THEIR kids.

Champion
Jan 27, 2009
489
MissNat wrote:
Have gotten a mail from KI.
Here is my MY message to them:

"I think this would fall under "not following rules".
I have come across 2 kids the past week that have blatantly admitted to lying about their age for the "open" chat feature which I've reported.
The 2nd kid said he'd just change his age back if you guys put him back to menu chat & he said you wouldn't do anything because he was the "master" of his account.
I know the one forum post from Professor Greyrose stated that the 18+ chat is for those that ARE 18+ AND have a valid subscription.. So wouldn't that technically be not following rules?
I bet you guys also follow COPPA, so a child lying about their age, or parent lying about their age would be a security issue and would be against COPPA.
I posted a board in Halston's Laboratory & have had a couple parents admit to giving their child the "open" chat feature.
Here's my forum:
https://www.wizard101.com/site/posts/list/9502.ftl

I don't think anyone under 18 needs this feature, especially considering the fact we are now able to type out numbers."


And here is their reply back:

"Hello,

Thank you for making us aware of this situation. We will begin investigation immediately and take action as appropriate. If you have further troubles like this, please let us know right away!

Thanks again!

Kind Regards,
Mr. Lincoln
Ravenwood School of Magical Arts"


So, I was in full rights of reporting those kids and I suggest you remove your child's open chat.


arguing over nothing isn't going to help here is how simple it is, kid under 18 curses harasses someone or gives out personal to a point where someone could find them report them, someone is cursing or harassing the kid, REPORT THEM, then everything's good.

Survivor
Apr 12, 2009
24
i just wanna say that some people have gone to far with this. i'm a kid and i could see the things that shouldn't have been said. and i agree with sojourna.

Survivor
May 27, 2008
20
I'm a kid, (I'm not telling my age) and I am pretty sure I have text chat. Can any of you explain what the difference between Text chat and Open chat is? My dad allowed me to have text chat (I will tell I am slightly below the Text chat range) because we play together and he completely trusts me for not cursing or harrasing people. I just want to know if its OK to do that. I know one of the KI workers and he didnt say anything against doing it but after reading this I'm starting to wonder. Please let me know I dont want to be breaking any rules.

Cassandra WillowWhisper- Ice- Level 50
Cassandra DeathWhisper- Death- Level 50

(P.S) Same goes for my brother, and we dont lie about our ages and dont give them out pretty much.

Administrator
Here are the Chat definitions:

Menu Chat (default setting for under13)
-> players will only be able to chat with the preselected sentences in the menu in the upper left corner of the screen.

13 to 18+ Text Chat (default setting for 13+)
-> players will see only our Dictionary Text Chat from both 13-18 and 18+.
-> this chat is also filtered to prevent players from exchanging personal information.

18+ Open Chat*
-> is filtered for profanity but will allow numbers and names.
-> will show 3 colors in the chat window: white means 13+ can see it, yellow means 18+ can see it, red is filtered

*Accounts must be 18+ and must be an active subscriber with a valid credit card on file to enable Open Chat.

It is up to the parents of under 18 year olds to determine the best level of chat for their child, and we encourage parents to play the game themselves to get a feeling of what levels of chat they are comfortable with for their children.

{o,o}
  |)_)
 -?-?-
Survivor
Dec 13, 2008
11
I myself am a teenager. I play other online games besides this, for example Star Wars Galaxies and it allows EVERYONE to have "open chat". One reason I stopped playing W101 is because you couldnt say a lot of stuff. For example you couldnt say how many items left that you had to collect. You had to say like won, too, tree, for, fifth, sixth, seventh, etc. So not having open chat when a lot of other games do just causes teenagers like me to go play the games that do. But since the open chat came on W101 I have wanted it. I do not have it yet but I would really like it. I would think if you know not to give out your private information and are over lets say 13 you should be able to use it. Anyway my main point is that KI should lower the age limit to 13.

Jeffrey Stormhunter
Level 46
Fire Wizard

Champion
Jan 23, 2009
410
Thanks Gamma

In my mind that ends that argument. It is up to the parent, as it should be and you must have a credit card on file to have it offered. So that's that.

People can we please stop reporting kids now. Because no kid has a credit card and if they have it thier parents gave them permission.

end of story.

I really am glad to here from ki.

Survivor
Oct 29, 2008
1
what do you even care about them having open chat i mean sure its not a good idea and all but what is the point of you caring about what other young children do? also my friend in the game didn't have open chat because he was only 14 when i was 19 and he couldn't say most common words for example: once,any numbers,also if you don't know how to type something and you try to and cant you cant tell someone what your trying to say.

Survivor
Nov 25, 2008
35
Thank you GAMMA!!~ :)

Parent determine the best level of chat for their child :)

I play along with my kids all the time~and enjoy the game :)

You can find me under:

Page Rider~ Myth ;)

Play safe WIZZARD lovers ;) see you in the realms ~

Survivor
May 17, 2009
2
[quote=me and my mom tried that we cant turn on open chat she knows i am resposible enough we tried everthing we change the age older open chat option did not come up so not what should i do