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Let's Talk - Mob Health

AuthorMessage
Survivor
May 30, 2009
4
A few months ago, the health of Mirage mobs was decreased drastically. It was a huge step up from Polaris, but now there really isn't much of a difference. However, I tend to see a problem with the health of mobs throughout all the worlds of the Spiral. Up until Polaris, the health of mobs have gradually increased by world - a kind of staircase system. Once Polaris was introduced, players took a few steps down from that staircase; the health of mobs decreased, rather than increased like normally.

I loved that at first Mirage posed as a challenge, but I understand KI's decision to nerf the health of mobs. However, we are seeing mobs in Mirage have less health than certain mobs in Zafaria through Khrysalis. For example, the Zafarian mob 'Shadow-Web Haunt' has 2,905 health, while the Mirage mob 'Ghulture' has 2,450 health. The problem is having a higher health mobs in a lower level worlds. Gear and spells are much more powerful at higher levels, but yet people are those levels face weaker enemies than they did many worlds ago.

Azteca and Khrysalis are one of the most difficult worlds to complete, mainly due to their length and mob health. Players will most likely finish Khrysalis at around level 100, and then move onto Polaris and Mirage where it's much easier. The thing is, the Darkmoor gear is one of the most powerful gear, and is only obtainable to wizards level 100+. Once more, this makes me question why are we having more powerful gear and spells for easier worlds.

Here's how I think this could be resolved:

Switching the health with mobs from Azteca and Khrysalis to Polaris and Mirage (and vice versa) will help create that staircase system once more. I don't literally mean switch the health exactly, but to the same level of health. Of course, more health adjustments would definitely be ideal throughout all worlds, so we don't have what I mentioned in paragraph two about the Zafarian and Mirage mobs.

I hope this problem can be resolved sometime soon. I don't think it will be difficult to do, and I think many players may like this idea. I would love to know everyone's thoughts about this topic, whether they agree or disagree. I would also love to hear what the staff here at KI thinks about this. Thanks so much for reading!

Survivor
May 30, 2009
4
I would love to hear some responses, especially from KI staff members. Thanks! :)

Delver
Jan 17, 2013
243
Justin 101 on Oct 20, 2017 wrote:
A few months ago, the health of Mirage mobs was decreased drastically. It was a huge step up from Polaris, but now there really isn't much of a difference. However, I tend to see a problem with the health of mobs throughout all the worlds of the Spiral. Up until Polaris, the health of mobs have gradually increased by world - a kind of staircase system. Once Polaris was introduced, players took a few steps down from that staircase; the health of mobs decreased, rather than increased like normally.

I loved that at first Mirage posed as a challenge, but I understand KI's decision to nerf the health of mobs. However, we are seeing mobs in Mirage have less health than certain mobs in Zafaria through Khrysalis. For example, the Zafarian mob 'Shadow-Web Haunt' has 2,905 health, while the Mirage mob 'Ghulture' has 2,450 health. The problem is having a higher health mobs in a lower level worlds. Gear and spells are much more powerful at higher levels, but yet people are those levels face weaker enemies than they did many worlds ago.

Azteca and Khrysalis are one of the most difficult worlds to complete, mainly due to their length and mob health. Players will most likely finish Khrysalis at around level 100, and then move onto Polaris and Mirage where it's much easier. The thing is, the Darkmoor gear is one of the most powerful gear, and is only obtainable to wizards level 100+. Once more, this makes me question why are we having more powerful gear and spells for easier worlds.

Here's how I think this could be resolved:

Switching the health with mobs from Azteca and Khrysalis to Polaris and Mirage (and vice versa) will help create that staircase system once more. I don't literally mean switch the health exactly, but to the same level of health. Of course, more health adjustments would definitely be ideal throughout all worlds, so we don't have what I mentioned in paragraph two about the Zafarian and Mirage mobs.

I hope this problem can be resolved sometime soon. I don't think it will be difficult to do, and I think many players may like this idea. I would love to know everyone's thoughts about this topic, whether they agree or disagree. I would also love to hear what the staff here at KI thinks about this. Thanks so much for reading!
I think that higher difficulty is fine as long as Kingsisle provides new gear to counteract the increased difficulty. Kingsisle chose not to provide new gear in Mirage, so they instead decided to just nerf the world instead.

I completely agree with everything you said, but the average casual player cannot solo Mirage mobs so...

Illuminator
Aug 03, 2016
1393
I remember another recent thread with similar topic.

We were talking about the way Mirage enemies seem to have very low health but hit hard and often and never seem to take much damage. So to me the fights weren't easy. They were harder than the previous world at least.

Survivor
May 30, 2009
4
FusionSun on Oct 24, 2017 wrote:
I think that higher difficulty is fine as long as Kingsisle provides new gear to counteract the increased difficulty. Kingsisle chose not to provide new gear in Mirage, so they instead decided to just nerf the world instead.

I completely agree with everything you said, but the average casual player cannot solo Mirage mobs so...
It doesn't make sense to me how "the average casual player" has completed Azteca and Khrysalis before, with less powerful gear and with mobs having more health, but now for some reason can't when they do have powerful gear, and mobs have less health. How were they able to pass these worlds before?

That's why I'm saying a mob health buff in Polaris and Mirage doesn't have to be extreme, but to the level of Azteca and Khrysalis since people have completed those worlds. A nerf in mob health in Azteca and Khrysalis to the levels where Polaris and Mirage are now would simply have that staircase system as I mentioned before.

Thanks for the reply!

Delver
Jan 17, 2013
243
Justin 101 on Oct 27, 2017 wrote:
It doesn't make sense to me how "the average casual player" has completed Azteca and Khrysalis before, with less powerful gear and with mobs having more health, but now for some reason can't when they do have powerful gear, and mobs have less health. How were they able to pass these worlds before?

That's why I'm saying a mob health buff in Polaris and Mirage doesn't have to be extreme, but to the level of Azteca and Khrysalis since people have completed those worlds. A nerf in mob health in Azteca and Khrysalis to the levels where Polaris and Mirage are now would simply have that staircase system as I mentioned before.

Thanks for the reply!
I completely agree with everything you said.

I know, right? How can't they do Mirage, but they were able to do Azteca and Khrysalis? I think the health of creatures should be buffed in Polaris and Mirage to continue that steady staircase that ended in Khrysalis, instead of what Kingsisle is doing nowdays :/

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1851
The difference is, the mobs in Khyrsalis didn't critical, pierce, stun, spam shields, rip down blades, critical, heal themselves, etc. The mobs in Mirage are far more aggressive than they were in Khrysalis.

My Fire, for example, can't take on two House Purrzian Assailants at once. It's pitiful. In order to get her faction badge she's basically battling that random Ice boss who cheats plus one House Purrzian ... because that's how insanely aggressive those cat mobs are. The cheating BOSS is easier to deal with!

Alia Misthaven, 120
Rowan Ashcloud, 120

Armiger
Feb 25, 2009
2162
Justin 101 on Oct 27, 2017 wrote:
It doesn't make sense to me how "the average casual player" has completed Azteca and Khrysalis before, with less powerful gear and with mobs having more health, but now for some reason can't when they do have powerful gear, and mobs have less health. How were they able to pass these worlds before?

That's why I'm saying a mob health buff in Polaris and Mirage doesn't have to be extreme, but to the level of Azteca and Khrysalis since people have completed those worlds. A nerf in mob health in Azteca and Khrysalis to the levels where Polaris and Mirage are now would simply have that staircase system as I mentioned before.

Thanks for the reply!
You might want to take a look at the Crit/Block changes. What many players built their gear on was to increase their ability to Throw Critical hits and Block those for the mobs and bosses. That system has been altered to a point it has become very difficult for players to be able to Block especially but their hits don't crit much either. The mobs alone in Mirage were throwing more critical hits than in any previous world.

@FusionSun is right about the fact that many casual players can't solo Mirage and there were aspects of AZ and Khrysalis that makes solo harder.

The mob health in Az and Khrysalis really isn't that extreme. I have soloed in both worlds with my Life wizard and didn't really have much trouble. I may be a little more than a casual player but I don't think there needs to be any more nerfing in either of those worlds.

Survivor
May 30, 2009
4
Freshta on Oct 27, 2017 wrote:
The difference is, the mobs in Khyrsalis didn't critical, pierce, stun, spam shields, rip down blades, critical, heal themselves, etc. The mobs in Mirage are far more aggressive than they were in Khrysalis.

My Fire, for example, can't take on two House Purrzian Assailants at once. It's pitiful. In order to get her faction badge she's basically battling that random Ice boss who cheats plus one House Purrzian ... because that's how insanely aggressive those cat mobs are. The cheating BOSS is easier to deal with!

Alia Misthaven, 120
Rowan Ashcloud, 120
Um, Khrysalis mobs DID in fact critical, have the ability to stun, spammed shields, rip down blades and shields, and also heal themselves. Mobs in Mirage (and I'm pretty sure Polaris, but I'm not 100% sure) don't even use the spell Earthquake. The only thing you mentioned that mobs didn't have is base pierce, but still had the ability to use infallible.

Take a look at the Khrysalis mob Blue Razor, for example. It used two types of shields and Fortify, had Infallible, and could stun by using Frost Giant.

Yes, mobs in Mirage are aggressive, but after the nerf, I wouldn't say "insanely" aggressive. The House Purrzian Assailants have nearly 3000 health. It really shouldn't be a problem for a max fire to defeat them in no more than five rounds (that itself seems a bit long). You have way more damage than previous worlds, shadow enhanced spells, more base pierce, more critical, etc. We really are just more powerful.

I do see now that according to the Wiki, Mirage mobs have base damage. However, this shouldn't make the health sink to where it's at.

Remember: I'm not saying to buff Polaris and Mirage back to where mobs have over 8000 health, but simply to the levels of Azteca and Khrysalis. That means for some mobs, the increased health would only be about 1000-2000 hit points.

Thank you for responding. :)

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1851
Justin 101 on Oct 29, 2017 wrote:
Um, Khrysalis mobs DID in fact critical, have the ability to stun, spammed shields, rip down blades and shields, and also heal themselves. Mobs in Mirage (and I'm pretty sure Polaris, but I'm not 100% sure) don't even use the spell Earthquake. The only thing you mentioned that mobs didn't have is base pierce, but still had the ability to use infallible.

Take a look at the Khrysalis mob Blue Razor, for example. It used two types of shields and Fortify, had Infallible, and could stun by using Frost Giant.

Yes, mobs in Mirage are aggressive, but after the nerf, I wouldn't say "insanely" aggressive. The House Purrzian Assailants have nearly 3000 health. It really shouldn't be a problem for a max fire to defeat them in no more than five rounds (that itself seems a bit long). You have way more damage than previous worlds, shadow enhanced spells, more base pierce, more critical, etc. We really are just more powerful.

I do see now that according to the Wiki, Mirage mobs have base damage. However, this shouldn't make the health sink to where it's at.

Remember: I'm not saying to buff Polaris and Mirage back to where mobs have over 8000 health, but simply to the levels of Azteca and Khrysalis. That means for some mobs, the increased health would only be about 1000-2000 hit points.

Thank you for responding. :)
I disagree.

The House Purrzian Assailants are hitting my Fire with 3000-5000 damage from low ranked spells like Storm Serpent and Catalan. Rowan can go from full health (6194) to staggering (under 2000) in ONE ROUND and it's usually round 2 or 3 when that happens. They've got plenty of pips left to keep lobbing damage. Add to that a stun, a fizzle from Catalan, a shield and/or having her blades ripped down so that her one shot ends up falling short if she doesn't critical?

Dead.

With her health already destroyed, she can't last long enough to set up another attack.

Mind you, my Fire has 40% resist. I shudder to think what would happen if she didn't have any resist at all. She soloed Azteca and Khrysalis both, and never struggled like this. The cats have 7% base pierce and use Flawless, they have high base damage of 75% and critical most of their hits. They have after-effects that eat up a turn and with this much damage pouring in, losing a turn is deadly.

I don't know why you'd make light of this level of aggression.

Alia Misthaven, 120
Rowan Ashcloud, 120

PS: for the record, Alia doesn't have so much trouble with these House Purrzian Assailants, only Rowan does. They just repel Fire in a way that's mind-blowing.

Hero
May 02, 2009
787
Freshta on Oct 30, 2017 wrote:
I disagree.

The House Purrzian Assailants are hitting my Fire with 3000-5000 damage from low ranked spells like Storm Serpent and Catalan. Rowan can go from full health (6194) to staggering (under 2000) in ONE ROUND and it's usually round 2 or 3 when that happens. They've got plenty of pips left to keep lobbing damage. Add to that a stun, a fizzle from Catalan, a shield and/or having her blades ripped down so that her one shot ends up falling short if she doesn't critical?

Dead.

With her health already destroyed, she can't last long enough to set up another attack.

Mind you, my Fire has 40% resist. I shudder to think what would happen if she didn't have any resist at all. She soloed Azteca and Khrysalis both, and never struggled like this. The cats have 7% base pierce and use Flawless, they have high base damage of 75% and critical most of their hits. They have after-effects that eat up a turn and with this much damage pouring in, losing a turn is deadly.

I don't know why you'd make light of this level of aggression.

Alia Misthaven, 120
Rowan Ashcloud, 120

PS: for the record, Alia doesn't have so much trouble with these House Purrzian Assailants, only Rowan does. They just repel Fire in a way that's mind-blowing.
Maybe you should try using shields and/or heals in-between blade rounds. When fighting Storm mobs on my Fire I make it a point to include Glacial Shield and/or Tower Shield in with my buffs and attacks. I also use Meowiarty's Satyrical Choker for the Satyr item card it provides. Sure it may make the battle take slightly longer and it isn't a fool-proof strategy but it definitely does help.

A+ Student
Dec 24, 2009
1851
flash33 on Oct 31, 2017 wrote:
Maybe you should try using shields and/or heals in-between blade rounds. When fighting Storm mobs on my Fire I make it a point to include Glacial Shield and/or Tower Shield in with my buffs and attacks. I also use Meowiarty's Satyrical Choker for the Satyr item card it provides. Sure it may make the battle take slightly longer and it isn't a fool-proof strategy but it definitely does help.
Thanks for the tip.

What I did was switch to Fuels and Power Links to get around shields, do damage, and heal at the same time. Surprisingly, that works pretty well if I critical the power link. If I don't, it gets ugly.

When I don't feel like stressing out, though, I just battle the roaming boss and one of the Assailants. He's much easier to handle and, I might someday get his grimoire pet.

Alia Misthaven
Rowan Ashcloud

Astrologist
Feb 28, 2014
1015
I agree with Freshta on this topic. I'd like to add: It's not just the health that makes mobs and bosses tough. It's the increased talents, strategy and team work they use against us as we been using against them that makes them tough. KI can give as much heath to creature all they want and still be as weak as those in the first arc. These Mobs In Mirage can kill with one or two hits no matter how good your gear is. Death Mobs can Feint us, Storm can use supercharge, Fire can use Backdraft and Detonate and they have the pips to do that in a matter of a few rounds, plus pile up blades and shields like all mobs and bosses are known to do. If a critical is added and you miss the block, the chances are you're dead with more than 4,000 damages. I've seen it happen to players and me. I'm a strong battle survivor and still I got defeated at times the most in Polaris and Mirage while going solo even with up to date (Darkmoore) gear and change of strategy.