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Changes to Wild Bolt Spell - a Civilized Chat

AuthorMessage
Survivor
Dec 12, 2009
30
darthjt wrote:
ZoeC010 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Thank you all for the feedback, we are listening!

For those of you who are wondering where your posts went, swearing at us is not only going to result in your post being rejected, but you may find yourself expelled from Wizard101.

Please keep this civilized.


Anyway, let me ask this, how many people need to complain, quit, sign a petition, or do something drastic to get the spell back to its original state? Will it matter what we say or do? You say you are listening, but so far, almost everyone hates what you have done to Wild Bolt.

Here are the reasons. 1: You waste 2 pips on a supposed 33% chance at 1000 damage ( and like Elemental Blast, usually you get ice, the lowest )

2:You can use wand and get more damage without the use of pips.
3:Storm has low health to begin with, so we have to hit hard and fast to even have a chance!
4:We fizzle the most, so, if we can, use spells, and enchantments to get a spell to work 70, 80, 90, and even 100% of the time, which would take a lot of other casting and costs, would we not then earn that right?
5:We are trying to keep all the schools in balance, yet, this clearly takes a great spell from storm. Yet, we are now giving Ice an amulet that gives a +45 attack blade, plus you can have pet with DragonBlade, Plus other enchantments, to make their attacks very very powerful, plus they can steal your shields, have lots of tower shields, and have resistance to all magic. Meanwhile, Balance, there is only tower shield that will protect you, and that is an ice spell, unless you buy them, and at most we can only get 5, unless you buy them, they have 125 per pip judgement spell, plus blades, hex, add feints in, and without shields or dispel, your done for, especially with low health. So, we are trying to keep the playing field even, right?

Does any other school have a spell that wastes pips? why should storms?

Either make the spell have a 0 pip cost, which would then be fair, or make it be 200 or 1000 damage a 50/50 chance, that way, it would be fair.


I noticed you never mentioned Life in there. So having next to no attacks and until the new schools came about, no multi attacks either. All Life can do is keep healing themselves while they take umteen rounds to heal stack heal stack heal stack then attack. Hmmm wonder how many pips have to be used to get in a mediocre attack at best? And what was your complaint again? Oh yes that you have to waste TWO pips.

Storm Legendary
Life Legendary
Death Legendary
Myth Legendary
Fire Lvl Forty
Ice Lvl Thirty Two



Ok, this is the rudest player ever! Before you decide, to Post to everyone and especially try and quote numbers and statistics, learn how to do Math!

Next, actually give a good arguement, besides, oh, it makes the game a bit more challenging! I have stated my Opinion on Both Sides of this Issue and Apparently, your lack of intelligence prevents you from understanding the simplest grasps of reality.

I will not waste any more time replying to you or your comments, until you actually have a valid point. Learn to be Civilized and actually acknowledge that people do have a legitament complaint.

As for you comment about life, how about we take fairy, a 480 heal and make it heal for 10, 20, 0r 480! lol See how that works!

Seriously, where do people who post get the idea they should?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, unfortunately, some people do!


WOW i am so insulted by your lack of intelligence and ability to comprehend any one else's opinions and feel the need to trash talk others here instead of having a "Civilized" conversation yourself you hipocrit. Excuse me. You speak with a forked tongue. Sorry want me to explain what that means?

I am guessing I hit a nerve or did I hit the nail on the head? First off, I am keeping in line with the conversation, not insulting others specifically such as your self. Secondly, you didn't mention anything about Life in your whining which has it worse off than Storm by a long shot. Thirdly, sure turn fairy (2 pips) into heal of 10, 20, or 480 most Life schools don't use them anyways it's other schools who rely on them more. Forthly, you are whining and complaining that KI isn't listening to you (which they are) because they haven't accomodated your wishes. GET OVER IT! You can't please everyone all of the time

KI is well aware of the 33% blah blah blah and the 2 pip blah blah blah its in almost all of the posts of few people wanting it changed back but when they have to look at the big picture of everyone in the game, the very small minority doesn't rule sorry to say. Have a nice day. :P


Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
31
ZoeC010 wrote:
Draco0209 wrote:
We all HAVE tried the new bolt on the test and found it completly worthless.
How many need to say it?What surprises me is that KI believes this is a reasonable change.As a subscriber with 3 accounts in my family(tatal of 11
grandmasters)I can tell you we are very unhappy with this change.Over 60%
of the community hates this according to the poll,yet KI STILL put in the live
game.WHY? If you were actully listening to your subscibers you would not
have made this blunder.Do we need to cancel our subscritions to get your
attention?As a player that has all grandmasters in all the schools I'm speaking from expierience when i say bolt as it is now is useless.Please listen
THIS time to what we are telling you.Did anyone on the staff try this?I
cant imagine they did or THEY would have told you it wasting pips to caste
this spell.


No WE all HAVE NOT tried the new bolt in test, only the ones here complaining i would imagine. I myself have not and many others I know have not as well. Not everyone can access the test realm when new things come about to test. I can but am not always on or just go straight to the game. Of course it wasn't important to me to test it so i didn't, as i believe many many others didn't for the same reason. The only school who actually tested it was pretty much storm, so in my opinion the poll was useless seeing as it was mainly storm school responding. Where is the sense in that? I am surprised only 62% said keep as it was! LOL

We have several accounts here as well and i find that it is very immature to make threats to cancel subscriptions especially over TWO pips. I have a Storm Legendary that got that far in game because she is VERY POWERFUL. Have never once used wild bolt, well not once that worked anyways. I gave up and took it out of my deck a long time ago. Not crying over spilled milk that's for sure.

Storm Legendary
Life Legendary
Death Legendary
Myth Legendary
Fire Lvl Forty
Ice Lvl Thirty Two



You say you have a lvl 60 storm? You sound suspiciously like a storm
hating pvp loser.But leaving that aside,I have read some of your many
rambling post and in not one do I find a convincing argument for the
way KI implemented the change to wild bolt.If KI simply capped the
accuracy after the release of celestia I doubt people would be this
angry.You were unable to EVER hit with wild bolt?Well thats sad to be
sure.You had no gear that improved your accuracy,or herd of keen eyes
or sniper?Your statement that ONLY storm tested wild bolt? LOL Are
you kidding? The only way for non storm to test it would be to use the
storm polymorph!!! Since the new wild bolt is a detriment to cast about
66% of the time,you have trouble seeing why it is almost universally
hated by storm wizard?You need to make sense when you say I threatened
to cancel my subsciptions for 2 pips.I have to say after reading your
posts ,I not only find them rude for the most part, but very immature
as well.If you indeed have a lvl 60 storm I would be very surprise.

Legendary Storm
Legendary Balance
Legenary Life
LvL 59 Ice
LVL 59 Myth
LVL 59 Fire
LVL 50 Death sorry couldnt help this last dig XD

Survivor
Dec 12, 2009
30
Cortana99 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
ZoeC010 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Thank you all for the feedback, we are listening!

For those of you who are wondering where your posts went, swearing at us is not only going to result in your post being rejected, but you may find yourself expelled from Wizard101.

Please keep this civilized.


Anyway, let me ask this, how many people need to complain, quit, sign a petition, or do something drastic to get the spell back to its original state? Will it matter what we say or do? You say you are listening, but so far, almost everyone hates what you have done to Wild Bolt.

Here are the reasons. 1: You waste 2 pips on a supposed 33% chance at 1000 damage ( and like Elemental Blast, usually you get ice, the lowest )

2:You can use wand and get more damage without the use of pips.
3:Storm has low health to begin with, so we have to hit hard and fast to even have a chance!
4:We fizzle the most, so, if we can, use spells, and enchantments to get a spell to work 70, 80, 90, and even 100% of the time, which would take a lot of other casting and costs, would we not then earn that right?
5:We are trying to keep all the schools in balance, yet, this clearly takes a great spell from storm. Yet, we are now giving Ice an amulet that gives a +45 attack blade, plus you can have pet with DragonBlade, Plus other enchantments, to make their attacks very very powerful, plus they can steal your shields, have lots of tower shields, and have resistance to all magic. Meanwhile, Balance, there is only tower shield that will protect you, and that is an ice spell, unless you buy them, and at most we can only get 5, unless you buy them, they have 125 per pip judgement spell, plus blades, hex, add feints in, and without shields or dispel, your done for, especially with low health. So, we are trying to keep the playing field even, right?

Does any other school have a spell that wastes pips? why should storms?

Either make the spell have a 0 pip cost, which would then be fair, or make it be 200 or 1000 damage a 50/50 chance, that way, it would be fair.


I noticed you never mentioned Life in there. So having next to no attacks and until the new schools came about, no multi attacks either. All Life can do is keep healing themselves while they take umteen rounds to heal stack heal stack heal stack then attack. Hmmm wonder how many pips have to be used to get in a mediocre attack at best? And what was your complaint again? Oh yes that you have to waste TWO pips.

Storm Legendary
Life Legendary
Death Legendary
Myth Legendary
Fire Lvl Forty
Ice Lvl Thirty Two



Ok, this is the rudest player ever! Before you decide, to Post to everyone and especially try and quote numbers and statistics, learn how to do Math!

Next, actually give a good arguement, besides, oh, it makes the game a bit more challenging! I have stated my Opinion on Both Sides of this Issue and Apparently, your lack of intelligence prevents you from understanding the simplest grasps of reality.

I will not waste any more time replying to you or your comments, until you actually have a valid point. Learn to be Civilized and actually acknowledge that people do have a legitament complaint.

As for you comment about life, how about we take fairy, a 480 heal and make it heal for 10, 20, 0r 480! lol See how that works!

Seriously, where do people who post get the idea they should?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, unfortunately, some people do!


He (ZoeC010) is obviously anti-storm, i mean come on, 10 posts in a row, TEN IN A ROW, screaming about how good the change is, how fair it is, how we should "get over it", despite the masses of Storm Wizards who are disgusted with the change. Were you (Zoe) bolted one too many times in PVP and are trying your hardest to convince KI that they did the right thing so your PVP days are more fun? Ah that's right, you represent all the PVE players as well and hope your insane wall of posts will change the minds of anyone who used Wild Bolt pre-Celestia, and used it WELL. Sorry, not gonna happen.

You can keep ranting via your walls of complete garbage, the fact is, Wild Bolt WAS a great spell, it WAS extremely useful, and people relied on it because they spent weeks or even months getting the Accuracy needed to make that spell shine. Oh, spending alot of real cash as well, JUST for that one spell. Any Wild Bolt user before this "change" has every right to be sick of what KI did to it.


And you are so Anti-Civilized. Actually Cortana I play my Storm the most, She was my first Legendary, and She is awesome I love all my spells. You just can't comprehend that others can make do without what you are complaining about. As for the posts all being in a row that just happened that way because I was up late sick and was reading all the complaints from the few people who wanted their beloved bolt changed back. Guessing it's my fault when I responded to certain quotes and there not being others responding at the same time. I responded to quotes sporatically through the topic, how about you whine to Wiz for putting them all at then end? You guys are amazing lol you whine and complain about whatever doesn't agree with you doesn't matter if it's on topic or not. Closed minded I say.

As for "screaming about how good the change is, how fair it is, how we should "get over it", despite the masses of Storm Wizards who are disgusted with the change." Want some cheese with that whine? You apparently don't deal well with conflict do you? Is that how you guys get your opinions across by insulting others? And you wondering why you haven't gotten your way? Oh and despite the masses? Wow how about we just say that it is 62% of all the ten million players in the game then. Does that make it sound more important?

KI listens to ALL the people and makes adjustments as THEY feel the game needs to grow and improve. If they catered to all the whiners who complained about every little thing then they would be having to make changes so many times EVERY DAY. Then they would really start losing players for sure. So ya GET OVER IT!

:P


Survivor
Dec 12, 2009
30
Cortana99 wrote:


He (ZoeC010) is obviously anti-storm, i mean come on, 10 posts in a row, TEN IN A ROW, screaming about how good the change is, how fair it is, how we should "get over it", despite the masses of Storm Wizards who are disgusted with the change. Were you (Zoe) bolted one too many times in PVP and are trying your hardest to convince KI that they did the right thing so your PVP days are more fun? Ah that's right, you represent all the PVE players as well and hope your insane wall of posts will change the minds of anyone who used Wild Bolt pre-Celestia, and used it WELL. Sorry, not gonna happen.

You can keep ranting via your walls of complete garbage, the fact is, Wild Bolt WAS a great spell, it WAS extremely useful, and people relied on it because they spent weeks or even months getting the Accuracy needed to make that spell shine. Oh, spending alot of real cash as well, JUST for that one spell. Any Wild Bolt user before this "change" has every right to be sick of what KI did to it.


Forgot to mention, I have never nor do I intend to PVP. Not sure what you think the big deal about it is. To each their own. I am actually a quester, crafter and assisting the needs of others, and am quite happy with that. As for getting accuracy up, does that not help with ALL of Storm's amazing spells? Hmm So not much of a waste there now is it? Guess that depends on if your glass is half full or half empty.

:P

Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
31
ZoeC010 wrote:
Cortana99 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
ZoeC010 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Thank you all for the feedback, we are listening!

For those of you who are wondering where your posts went, swearing at us is not only going to result in your post being rejected, but you may find yourself expelled from Wizard101.

Please keep this civilized.


Anyway, let me ask this, how many people need to complain, quit, sign a petition, or do something drastic to get the spell back to its original state? Will it matter what we say or do? You say you are listening, but so far, almost everyone hates what you have done to Wild Bolt.

Here are the reasons. 1: You waste 2 pips on a supposed 33% chance at 1000 damage ( and like Elemental Blast, usually you get ice, the lowest )

2:You can use wand and get more damage without the use of pips.
3:Storm has low health to begin with, so we have to hit hard and fast to even have a chance!
4:We fizzle the most, so, if we can, use spells, and enchantments to get a spell to work 70, 80, 90, and even 100% of the time, which would take a lot of other casting and costs, would we not then earn that right?
5:We are trying to keep all the schools in balance, yet, this clearly takes a great spell from storm. Yet, we are now giving Ice an amulet that gives a +45 attack blade, plus you can have pet with DragonBlade, Plus other enchantments, to make their attacks very very powerful, plus they can steal your shields, have lots of tower shields, and have resistance to all magic. Meanwhile, Balance, there is only tower shield that will protect you, and that is an ice spell, unless you buy them, and at most we can only get 5, unless you buy them, they have 125 per pip judgement spell, plus blades, hex, add feints in, and without shields or dispel, your done for, especially with low health. So, we are trying to keep the playing field even, right?

Does any other school have a spell that wastes pips? why should storms?

Either make the spell have a 0 pip cost, which would then be fair, or make it be 200 or 1000 damage a 50/50 chance, that way, it would be fair.


I noticed you never mentioned Life in there. So having next to no attacks and until the new schools came about, no multi attacks either. All Life can do is keep healing themselves while they take umteen rounds to heal stack heal stack heal stack then attack. Hmmm wonder how many pips have to be used to get in a mediocre attack at best? And what was your complaint again? Oh yes that you have to waste TWO pips.

Storm Legendary
Life Legendary
Death Legendary
Myth Legendary
Fire Lvl Forty
Ice Lvl Thirty Two



Ok, this is the rudest player ever! Before you decide, to Post to everyone and especially try and quote numbers and statistics, learn how to do Math!

Next, actually give a good arguement, besides, oh, it makes the game a bit more challenging! I have stated my Opinion on Both Sides of this Issue and Apparently, your lack of intelligence prevents you from understanding the simplest grasps of reality.

I will not waste any more time replying to you or your comments, until you actually have a valid point. Learn to be Civilized and actually acknowledge that people do have a legitament complaint.

As for you comment about life, how about we take fairy, a 480 heal and make it heal for 10, 20, 0r 480! lol See how that works!

Seriously, where do people who post get the idea they should?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, unfortunately, some people do!


He (ZoeC010) is obviously anti-storm, i mean come on, 10 posts in a row, TEN IN A ROW, screaming about how good the change is, how fair it is, how we should "get over it", despite the masses of Storm Wizards who are disgusted with the change. Were you (Zoe) bolted one too many times in PVP and are trying your hardest to convince KI that they did the right thing so your PVP days are more fun? Ah that's right, you represent all the PVE players as well and hope your insane wall of posts will change the minds of anyone who used Wild Bolt pre-Celestia, and used it WELL. Sorry, not gonna happen.

You can keep ranting via your walls of complete garbage, the fact is, Wild Bolt WAS a great spell, it WAS extremely useful, and people relied on it because they spent weeks or even months getting the Accuracy needed to make that spell shine. Oh, spending alot of real cash as well, JUST for that one spell. Any Wild Bolt user before this "change" has every right to be sick of what KI did to it.


And you are so Anti-Civilized. Actually Cortana I play my Storm the most, She was my first Legendary, and She is awesome I love all my spells. You just can't comprehend that others can make do without what you are complaining about. As for the posts all being in a row that just happened that way because I was up late sick and was reading all the complaints from the few people who wanted their beloved bolt changed back. Guessing it's my fault when I responded to certain quotes and there not being others responding at the same time. I responded to quotes sporatically through the topic, how about you whine to Wiz for putting them all at then end? You guys are amazing lol you whine and complain about whatever doesn't agree with you doesn't matter if it's on topic or not. Closed minded I say.

As for "screaming about how good the change is, how fair it is, how we should "get over it", despite the masses of Storm Wizards who are disgusted with the change." Want some cheese with that whine? You apparently don't deal well with conflict do you? Is that how you guys get your opinions across by insulting others? And you wondering why you haven't gotten your way? Oh and despite the masses? Wow how about we just say that it is 62% of all the ten million players in the game then. Does that make it sound more important?

KI listens to ALL the people and makes adjustments as THEY feel the game needs to grow and improve. If they catered to all the whiners who complained about every little thing then they would be having to make changes so many times EVERY DAY. Then they would really start losing players for sure. So ya GET OVER IT!

:P



Your arrogance has no bounds. I'm sure your own self importance
keeps you from recognizing this, wich is sad.Dont bother replying
I have met your kind before, and there is no way to reason with
them.Good luck in your future rantings.

Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
31
ZoeC010 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
ZoeC010 wrote:
darthjt wrote:
Professor Greyrose wrote:
Thank you all for the feedback, we are listening!

For those of you who are wondering where your posts went, swearing at us is not only going to result in your post being rejected, but you may find yourself expelled from Wizard101.

Please keep this civilized.


Anyway, let me ask this, how many people need to complain, quit, sign a petition, or do something drastic to get the spell back to its original state? Will it matter what we say or do? You say you are listening, but so far, almost everyone hates what you have done to Wild Bolt.

Here are the reasons. 1: You waste 2 pips on a supposed 33% chance at 1000 damage ( and like Elemental Blast, usually you get ice, the lowest )

2:You can use wand and get more damage without the use of pips.
3:Storm has low health to begin with, so we have to hit hard and fast to even have a chance!
4:We fizzle the most, so, if we can, use spells, and enchantments to get a spell to work 70, 80, 90, and even 100% of the time, which would take a lot of other casting and costs, would we not then earn that right?
5:We are trying to keep all the schools in balance, yet, this clearly takes a great spell from storm. Yet, we are now giving Ice an amulet that gives a +45 attack blade, plus you can have pet with DragonBlade, Plus other enchantments, to make their attacks very very powerful, plus they can steal your shields, have lots of tower shields, and have resistance to all magic. Meanwhile, Balance, there is only tower shield that will protect you, and that is an ice spell, unless you buy them, and at most we can only get 5, unless you buy them, they have 125 per pip judgement spell, plus blades, hex, add feints in, and without shields or dispel, your done for, especially with low health. So, we are trying to keep the playing field even, right?

Does any other school have a spell that wastes pips? why should storms?

Either make the spell have a 0 pip cost, which would then be fair, or make it be 200 or 1000 damage a 50/50 chance, that way, it would be fair.


I noticed you never mentioned Life in there. So having next to no attacks and until the new schools came about, no multi attacks either. All Life can do is keep healing themselves while they take umteen rounds to heal stack heal stack heal stack then attack. Hmmm wonder how many pips have to be used to get in a mediocre attack at best? And what was your complaint again? Oh yes that you have to waste TWO pips.

Storm Legendary
Life Legendary
Death Legendary
Myth Legendary
Fire Lvl Forty
Ice Lvl Thirty Two



Ok, this is the rudest player ever! Before you decide, to Post to everyone and especially try and quote numbers and statistics, learn how to do Math!

Next, actually give a good arguement, besides, oh, it makes the game a bit more challenging! I have stated my Opinion on Both Sides of this Issue and Apparently, your lack of intelligence prevents you from understanding the simplest grasps of reality.

I will not waste any more time replying to you or your comments, until you actually have a valid point. Learn to be Civilized and actually acknowledge that people do have a legitament complaint.

As for you comment about life, how about we take fairy, a 480 heal and make it heal for 10, 20, 0r 480! lol See how that works!

Seriously, where do people who post get the idea they should?

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, unfortunately, some people do!


WOW i am so insulted by your lack of intelligence and ability to comprehend any one else's opinions and feel the need to trash talk others here instead of having a "Civilized" conversation yourself you hipocrit. Excuse me. You speak with a forked tongue. Sorry want me to explain what that means?

I am guessing I hit a nerve or did I hit the nail on the head? First off, I am keeping in line with the conversation, not insulting others specifically such as your self. Secondly, you didn't mention anything about Life in your whining which has it worse off than Storm by a long shot. Thirdly, sure turn fairy (2 pips) into heal of 10, 20, or 480 most Life schools don't use them anyways it's other schools who rely on them more. Forthly, you are whining and complaining that KI isn't listening to you (which they are) because they haven't accomodated your wishes. GET OVER IT! You can't please everyone all of the time

KI is well aware of the 33% blah blah blah and the 2 pip blah blah blah its in almost all of the posts of few people wanting it changed back but when they have to look at the big picture of everyone in the game, the very small minority doesn't rule sorry to say. Have a nice day. :P



The sheer arrogance displayed here is truely amazing.

Survivor
Nov 27, 2009
35
Ithink ki need recheck your poll from test realm

lately i seen many storm wizard are very very uspest about change to wild bolt spell

even know i am balance wizard i more understand balance lot more most people i read all book in game storm is to a harder hiting school

62% of people vote against the change

i got other way to fix wild bolt keep the old one outside of arena and only time the spell change while in inside arena

William HawkGrove legendary in Balance

Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
31
gtarhannon wrote:
I have followed this thread and several other related threads for some time now. Most of the new posts either rehash the same arguments, or are written by someone who clearly does not wish to read the entire thread. It occurred to me that it may be useful to have a post which summarizes all the salient points. In the interest of maximum usefulness, I will summarize the points separately from my opinions. Please reply if you feel I missed anything.

Damage Arguments
1. Damage of 10 or 100 is too low for a storm spell.
2. Wands can do more damage.
3. Storm is the most powerful school so the old bolt makes sense.

Strategic Arguments
1. Bolt has no strategic value anymore.
2. The old bolt was an equalizer for Storm's low health.
3. The new bolt wastes pips, traps, and blades.
4. Wild bolt isn't "wild" anymore.

Class Comparative Arguments
1. Does any other school have a spell that wastes pips?
2. Class x has attribute y and the old bolt was an equalizer.
3. The new critical system is KI giving every class a chance of bolt.

Customer Service Arguments
1. Much time and real money have been invested in items to help accuracy.
2. This change was made just because of PvP.
3. KI didn't listen to the community, the poll showed 62% disapproved of the new bolt.
4. If KI changes this spell, what might they do to the other spells?
5. The new wild bolt wasn't thought out, it and was "rushed" like Celestia.

Miscellaneous Arguments
1. The new bolt doesn't actually hit 33% of the time for 10, 100, and 1000.
2. Why couldn't they have just capped the old bolt at x% accuracy?
3. Why would they even add the 30% unstoppable card in the first place?

That completes the summary of points I have gleaned from the thread.

My Opinions
Before I address each point, I would like to assert that the old bolt was broken and in need of repair. Any spell that can deal 1000 base damage for 2 pips MUST be mitigated because it is wildly stronger than any other spell in the game on a per pip basis, even when compared to gargantuan versions of any other spell. The closest competitor I could find is a gargantuan thunder snake which only comes to 395 per pip at maximum damage, still 105 less than bolt.

The only real way to objectively compare spells would be to calculate an expected damage per pip score for each spell like so: (Average Damage / Pip Cost) * Accuracy. This figure would represent the amount of damage which you can expect to inflict on an enemy with repeated use of the spell over time. At just 40% accuracy, the old bolt jumps from its initial EDPP of 50, to an EDPP of 200. To put that in perspective, the EDPP of triton (the next closest EDPP score in the game) at 100% accuracy and assuming it always hits for the maximum possible base damage only comes in at 145.833.

Since it is widely acknowledged (and I believe largely undisputed) in this thread that it was common for bolt to be boosted to around 70% with just gear and enchantment cards, it should also be acknowledged that it was broken and in need of repair. The moment you were able to get the effective accuracy above 40% using only gear and enchantment cards, bolt went from being "broken" to "wildly broken". It is with these opening assertions in mind that I continue addressing each point with my opinion.

Damage Argument Opinions
Damage of 10 or 100 isn't too low if it can also hit 1000. While I don't agree with the design decision from a strategic standpoint, the new wildbolt is mathematically still stronger on an EDPP basis that most other spells. It

Class Comparative Argument Opinions
Every school has at least one spell which is a waste of pips in the same sense that the new bolt wastes pips in all but a handful of situations. Comparing any other school to Storm and then asserting that bolt was an equalizer for that difference is disingenuous at best. So too is asserting that the new critical system is a way to give every other class wild bdamage in the game.

Customer Service Argument Opinions
The change to wild bolt is a big deal because many customers put a huge amount of time and money (often real money in the from of crowns) into obtaining items and pets which could be used to boost storm accuracy specifically for the purpose of making bolt more useful. The change as it stands now makes much (if not most) of that work futile. I am of the opinion that KI should come up with a third option for bolt. However, I do believe that KI was listening to the larger group of customers when they decided to change bolt.

I acknowledge that it was a HUGE public relations mistake for KI to author a poll which ended up showing that 62% of people hated the change to wild bolt. But if you think that poll was representative of the larger 10 million strong Wizard 101 customer base then I think you are naive. The total number of participants in that survey never topped a couple thousand. Just look at the number of views on the wild bolt thread vs. the "Are there many older gamers playing W101?" thread in Ravenwood Commons. It should be clear that the majority interest in that survey was comprised of t

No one likes change, even when its for the better. That is just human nature. It is natural to defend something that was clearly out of balance for fear of something you use being the next target. For what its worth, I don't think that KI has demonstrated any willingness to change things simply because people complain. I think that they try very hard to listen to their customer base and try to only change those things that are thought to be clearly broken.

Miscellaneous Argument Opinions
I believe firmly that when the new bolt hits, there is a one in three chance of doing 10, 100, or 1000 damage contrary to many assertions made in this thread. This post is not meant to be a primer on statistical averages or computer programming, but I will say that I find it highly unlikely that with a sufficiently large sample size (likely 1000 casts or more of a spell) that you will find a statistically significant deviation from the published accuracies on any of these spells. As to why you couldn't just cap the old wild bolt to x% accuracy... well, depending on the suggestion, it may simply not be that easy to implement in the game. Finally... Why would they even add the 30% unstoppable card in the first place? I believe that to be primarily for the use of storm spells by characters who use them as a secondary school and therefore do not benefit from gear accuracy boosts.


Some of your assertions are wrong,and others I disagree with.

From your salient points

Damage of 10 or 100 is too low for storm

I say damage of 10 or 100 for 2 pips is too low for ANY school.

From your opinion section

You state that it is widely acknowleged(and largely undisputed) in
this thread that is was common(pre celestia) for bolt to be boosted
to around 70% with just gear and enchantment cards.


You couldnt be more wrong on that.The best accuracy enchantment
(pre celestia) was a VERY RARE sniper that gave 25%.These where
hard to come by to say the least.With the best storm gear you got
15% storm accuracy.So the BEST accuracy you could get with gear
and enhancement cards was 45%. You did not include the possibility
of storm shot from a pet(which I did not have),with that you get
what,6%?So it was NOT common to have a pre celestia wild bolt
with a 70% accuracy,in fact it wasnt possible.The vast majority of
wild bolts used pre celestia where 30% to 40%.

In the same opinion section you state that it should be acknowleged
that the pre celestia bolt was "broken". Thats just plan silly,your
information was incorrect.

You aso stated that all schools have a spell that wastes pips

Please tell me what those are.I have wizards from all schools and
cant for the life of me think what those are.

From your customer service argument opinion section

You state that you personally know a lot of people who complained
about storm players who used bolt in PvE.Why on earth would ANYONE
complain about the use of wild bolt in a PvE situation?The ONLY
reason I can think of is some sort of irrational jealously,and thats
so childish its not worth disscussing.

For those of you that have never used the "new wild bolt" you cannot
understand how truely awful it is.KI needed to change wild bolt with
all the enhancements and gear that came with celestia,and you wont
find many storm wizards that disagree with that.It was the WAY they
changed it that has angered so many people.I have posted before that
if KI simply capped the accuracy of bolt most would have accepted that
as fair.By making the "new wild bolt" such a terrible spell they have in
effect removed it from the game.Was this intentional on the part of
KI? I'm starting to suspect it was.

I apologize to this poster for deleting some of his/her post,it was
over the character limit.Please look to the original post.


Survivor
Nov 25, 2009
9
The old Wild Bolt's problem isn't just PvP. Having a 70% 1000damage 2pip spell with Celestia gear in PvE is just as broken, essentially making all Storm Wizards at the highest level a one trick pony in PvE. Why would ANY Storm Wizard use anything other than Wild Bolt if you can hit 70% of the time? There's no strategy if they kept the old Wild Bolt.

I don't like the change, mainly because the pip cost is too high for what it does, but they shouldn't change it back. They should have just capped the accuracy on the old Wild Bolt to 10% so people can stop complaining though.

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
My Opinions
Before I address each point, I would like to assert that the old bolt was broken and in need of repair. Any spell that can deal 1000 base damage for 2 pips MUST be mitigated because it is wildly stronger than any other spell in the game on a per pip basis, even when compared to gargantuan versions of any other spell. The closest competitor I could find is a gargantuan thunder snake which only comes to 395 per pip at maximum damage, still 105 less than bolt.

The only real way to objectively compare spells would be to calculate an expected damage per pip score for each spell like so: (Average Damage / Pip Cost) * Accuracy. This figure would represent the amount of damage which you can expect to inflict on an enemy with repeated use of the spell over time. At just 40% accuracy, the old bolt jumps from its initial EDPP of 50, to an EDPP of 200. To put that in perspective, the EDPP of triton (the next closest EDPP score in the game) at 100% accuracy and assuming it always hits for the maximum possible base damage only comes in at 145.833.

Since it is widely acknowledged (and I believe largely undisputed) in this thread that it was common for bolt to be boosted to around 70% with just gear and enchantment cards, it should also be acknowledged that it was broken and in need of repair. The moment you were able to get the effective accuracy above 40% using only gear and enchantment cards, bolt went from being "broken" to "wildly broken". It is with these opening assertions in mind that I continue addressing each point with my opinion.

Damage Argument Opinions
Damage of 10 or 100 isn't too low if it can also hit 1000. While I don't agree with the design decision from a strategic standpoint, the new wildbolt is mathematically still stronger on an EDPP basis that most other spells. It is true that wands can do more than 10 damage for 0 pips, but they also do not have a chance at 1000. Storm has never been said to be the most powerful class, just the most damaging. There is nothing anywhere in the storm class (or the rest of the game for that matter) that justifies an EDPP score of 350 (Old Bolt at 70% accuracy) when the average EDPP score of any other storm damage spell at 100% accuracy hovers just shy of 140.

Strategic Argument Opinions
While I wouldn't go so far as to say that bolt no longer has any strategic value, it has most certainly been substantially deflated. It is now "wild" in terms of damage instead of accuracy and also has the dubious honor of being the first spell I can think of to attain a third tactical state. While every other damage spell is either tactically benign (fizzles) or useful (hits), bolt can be tactically detrimental in that a score of 10 or 100 will effectively waste two pips (compared to a wand which will do similar or greater damage for 0 pips) and waste any traps or blades (again compared to a wand from a different school) which have been placed for a more tactically assured storm spell. The chance of a detrimental outcome actually increases as the spell becomes more accurate which is counter to every other spell in the game. I reject the notion that bolt was somehow intended to be an equalizer for Storm's low health, but I acknowledge that it had tremendous tactical value before the change and has now been reduced to a niche spell.

Class Comparative Argument Opinions
Every school has at least one spell which is a waste of pips in the same sense that the new bolt wastes pips in all but a handful of situations. Comparing any other school to Storm and then asserting that bolt was an equalizer for that difference is disingenuous at best. So too is asserting that the new critical system is a way to give every other class wild bolt damage. I acknowledge that there are things which should be looked at and evaluated in other classes, but criticals can be blocked simply by having gear with a block rating (as opposed to bolt cast on an unshielded opponent). I further need to point out that since a critical effectively ups your damage multiplier by 100%, storm has more to gain from this system than any other class because they have the highest base damage in the game.

Customer Service Argument Opinions
The change to wild bolt is a big deal because many customers put a huge amount of time and money (often real money in the from of crowns) into obtaining items and pets which could be used to boost storm accuracy specifically for the purpose of making bolt more useful. The change as it stands now makes much (if not most) of that work futile. I am of the opinion that KI should come up with a third option for bolt. However, I do believe that KI was listening to the larger group of customers when they decided to change bolt.

I acknowledge that it was a HUGE public relations mistake for KI to author a poll which ended up showing that 62% of people hated the change to wild bolt. But if you think that poll was representative of the larger 10 million strong Wizard 101 customer base then I think you are naive. The total number of participants in that survey never topped a couple thousand. Just look at the number of views on the wild bolt thread vs. the "Are there many older gamers playing W101?" thread in Ravenwood Commons. It should be clear that the majority interest in that survey was comprised of the people who relied on bolt and didn't like the change.

In much the same way it is assumed in this thread that the only complaints about bolt came from PvP folks who lost. I think that is a wrong assumption as well because it is clear from perusing these forums that bolt has been considered a problem for a very long time. I personally know a lot of people who used to complain about Storm players who used bolt in PvE. You can chalk it up to jealousy, but it chapped people's hides that in addition to having an arsenal of the most damaging spells in the game, Storm also got a 2 pip spell which could take a strong enemy out on round one with no boosts.

Particularly because this is an all ages game where much of the revenue comes from kids who are notoriously less objective than adults, I think its safe to say that KI was protecting their revenue stream. I think that a lot of thought was put into the change, but I don't think that programmers think about those changes in the same way that the rest of us do. In other words, I think that a lot of positive tactical applications were overlooked in favor of preserving the term "wild" while keeping the expected damage per pip closer to the rest of Storm's spells.

No one likes change, even when its for the better. That is just human nature. It is natural to defend something that was clearly out of balance for fear of something you use being the next target. For what its worth, I don't think that KI has demonstrated any willingness to change things simply because people complain. I think that they try very hard to listen to their customer base and try to only change those things that are thought to be clearly broken.

Miscellaneous Argument Opinions
I believe firmly that when the new bolt hits, there is a one in three chance of doing 10, 100, or 1000 damage contrary to many assertions made in this thread. This post is not meant to be a primer on statistical averages or computer programming, but I will say that I find it highly unlikely that with a sufficiently large sample size (likely 1000 casts or more of a spell) that you will find a statistically significant deviation from the published accuracies on any of these spells. As to why you couldn't just cap the old wild bolt to x% accuracy... well, depending on the suggestion, it may simply not be that easy to implement in the game. Finally... Why would they even add the 30% unstoppable card in the first place? I believe that to be primarily for the use of storm spells by characters who use them as a secondary school and therefore do not benefit from gear accuracy boosts.


This is an icredible post!! enjoyed reading it and thought you touched on every area of the argument. Good work, i agree with everything in here and recomend everyone to read it before posting their complaint.

Survivor
Apr 17, 2010
1
zenmetsu wrote:
The old Wild Bolt's problem isn't just PvP. Having a 70% 1000damage 2pip spell with Celestia gear in PvE is just as broken, essentially making all Storm Wizards at the highest level a one trick pony in PvE. Why would ANY Storm Wizard use anything other than Wild Bolt if you can hit 70% of the time? There's no strategy if they kept the old Wild Bolt.

I don't like the change, mainly because the pip cost is too high for what it does, but they shouldn't change it back. They should have just capped the accuracy on the old Wild Bolt to 10% so people can stop complaining though.

In the interest of proposing a compromise to fix Bolt that my Storm Wizard could live with, why not keep the old bolt at 10% accuracy, cant be charmed, cant be used in pvp. The 10 or 100 damage has to go. Like before You hit or you miss. It's fun to have a truly wild card in the deck.

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Draco0209 wrote:

Some of your assertions are wrong,and others I disagree with.

From your salient points

Damage of 10 or 100 is too low for storm

I say damage of 10 or 100 for 2 pips is too low for ANY school.


Damage of 10 and 100 are too low for any school except when balanced with a change to also hit at 1000 which seems to be the thing everyone wants to gloss over on this change. Having said that, I still disagree with the change for tactical reasons.

Draco0209 wrote:

From your opinion section

You state that it is widely acknowleged(and largely undisputed) in
this thread that is was common(pre celestia) for bolt to be boosted
to around 70% with just gear and enchantment cards.


You make a good point here. I didn't catch this mistake before I posted it. The "pre celestia" is an error where I combined two thoughts. The 70% is common and largely undisputed as of Celestia, not pre. I will go edit the post.

I thought you had quoted me with the "common(pre celestia)" portion. While that isn't what I said, I certainly didn't clarify so I edited the original post for clarity.

Draco0209 wrote:

You couldnt be more wrong on that.The best accuracy enchantment
(pre celestia) was a VERY RARE sniper that gave 25%.These where
hard to come by to say the least.With the best storm gear you got
15% storm accuracy.So the BEST accuracy you could get with gear
and enhancement cards was 45%. You did not include the possibility
of storm shot from a pet(which I did not have),with that you get
what,6%?So it was NOT common to have a pre celestia wild bolt
with a 70% accuracy,in fact it wasnt possible.The vast majority of
wild bolts used pre celestia where 30% to 40%.


My figures are the aggregate casting accuracy. What was common pre-celestia (particularly among the "bolter" group) was the base card at 10%, standard storm "grand gear" for 15%, a pet having storm shot at 6% (varied from 1% to 8%, but 6% seems to have been the most common), plus a 20% sniper for a total of 51% accuracy out of the gate. While not the "wildly broken" 70% accuracy which one obtains in Celestia, it is still broken.

Draco0209 wrote:

In the same opinion section you state that it should be acknowleged
that the pre celestia bolt was "broken". Thats just plan silly,your
information was incorrect.


Its not silly, even by your numbers. I pretty clearly showed how out of balance the old bolt becomes at even 40% aggregate accuracy. A failure to admit that weakens any other arguments you might make in order to convince KI that they should come up with a third option.

Draco0209 wrote:

You aso stated that all schools have a spell that wastes pips

Please tell me what those are.I have wizards from all schools and
cant for the life of me think what those are.


The new bolt is now more of a niche spell than the old one because its best tactical use is only at the beginning of a match when you hope for 1000 damage to take out one weaker enemy. Outside of that use, it can now be considered a "pip waster" (or worse) should it hit for 10 or 100. Many schools have niche spells that are only tactically useful in a limited number of situations as well. Off the top of my head, the following "waste" pips in the wrong situations: choke-2, blinding light-2, taunt-2, power play-4, and doom and gloom-3. Rebirth for life is arguably in that group as its real tactical value is only realized when playing in a group, but I'm leaving it out for the sake of argument. Yes, I know they aren't damage spells but they are class spells which cost pips and have an even more limited number of tactical uses than the new wild bolt.

This argument has merit because it goes to the balance of the game. Given that storm already has a full compliment of damage spells, wild bolt is an "extra" class spell meant for tactical purposes in a similar way to the spells previously mentioned. Due to what I will term "a lack of foresight" on the part of KI, the old wild bolt became a spell that was being relied upon for the "heavy lifting" of fighting (particularly once Celestia was released), instead of just the occasional tactical advantage. I purposely omitted the minion spells and the threat level spells (except taunt because distract would be the most appropriate comparison to other threat spells, its an AoE, and because the Player Guide touts it as a specific ice ability) from the list because most classes get those and they obviously have limited tactical value. I am certain that there is wide ranging opinion on what others consider "useless" spells, but what I am illustrating is that if people wish to refer to the new bolt as a "pip waster" without specifying the specific circumstances under which that is true, then it becomes more of a "join the club" response for me.

Do not get me wrong... I am arguing that KI come up with a third option because I disagree with how the tactical value of the spell has been limited with the release of the new bolt. However, I cannot let statements such as "pip waster" go without being very specific in terms of how that is being applied.

Draco0209 wrote:

From your customer service argument opinion section

You state that you personally know a lot of people who complained
about storm players who used bolt in PvE.Why on earth would ANYONE
complain about the use of wild bolt in a PvE situation?The ONLY
reason I can think of is some sort of irrational jealously,and thats
so childish its not worth disscussing.


Childish isn't worth discussing in a "children's" game? Really? The people I mentioned complained to me personally so I have no idea if anyone ever complained directly to KI about it. However, it stands to reason that there were people complaining about it. Therefore, childish or no, it is a reality and worthy of discussion. KI has made an all ages game and is largely dependent on a wide variety of ages for its income. Dismissing feelings is a dangerous road for you to take in this thread because it is precisely feelings that have lead many people here to be upset about the change in the first place.

Due to the damage level of storms spells, many already feel that storm is the "favored child" of Wizard 101. Many (if not most) people carry emotional baggage around that this mentality can trigger so don't think for one minute that seeing 4 or 5 successful old bolts in a row isn't going to make some people complain. Not everyone is pleased with a win when they don't get to make a kill; just walk around the spiral for a bit to see evidence of that fact. (Did I use the semicolon correctly there? ) What I am saying with this argument is that just because you don't see the complaints in forums (where people expose themselves to public attacks and often ridicule by those who disagree) doesn't mean that they didn't complain to KI in any of several more private avenues. Therefore, arguments that "no one complained about bolt in PvE" do not necessarily hold water.

Draco0209 wrote:

For those of you that have never used the "new wild bolt" you cannot
understand how truely awful it is.KI needed to change wild bolt with
all the enhancements and gear that came with celestia,and you wont
find many storm wizards that disagree with that.It was the WAY they
changed it that has angered so many people.I have posted before that
if KI simply capped the accuracy of bolt most would have accepted that
as fair.By making the "new wild bolt" such a terrible spell they have in
effect removed it from the game.Was this intentional on the part of
KI? I'm starting to suspect it was.


While I cannot understand how you feel about the new bolt, I can understand intellectually why this change to bolt isn't the right one. In this, you and I can agree. The limitation on tactical value with the new bolt is my primary argument for a third option. You will see that I have discussed and proposed a solution which should be programmatically easy to implement and which also addresses emerging "out of balance" issues on other classes as well. It may not be popular (because no one wants to impact their school, just other schools) at the moment, but I hope that KI weighs it carefully and implements at least something similar to not only fix the wild bolt "fix", but to prevent this kind of thing from getting out of control again in the future with other classes as well.

Draco0209 wrote:

I apologize to this poster for deleting some of his/her post,it was
over the character limit.Please look to the original post.


No apologies necessary. As it was, I had to cut off some stuff from that post to get it to fit in the first place. :)

Survivor
Jun 15, 2009
3
I think the new wild bolt should be called wild fail(although it is luck if u get hit by it in pvp)

Squire
Jan 05, 2010
548
gtarhannon wrote:
Before I address each point, I would like to assert that the old bolt was broken and in need of repair. Any spell that can deal 1000 base damage for 2 pips MUST be mitigated because it is wildly stronger than any other spell in the game on a per pip basis, even when compared to gargantuan versions of any other spell. The closest competitor I could find is a gargantuan thunder snake which only comes to 395 per pip at maximum damage, still 105 less than bolt.

The only real way to objectively compare spells would be to calculate an expected damage per pip score for each spell like so: (Average Damage / Pip Cost) * Accuracy. This figure would represent the amount of damage which you can expect to inflict on an enemy with repeated use of the spell over time. At just 40% accuracy, the old bolt jumps from its initial EDPP of 50, to an EDPP of 200. To put that in perspective, the EDPP of triton (the next closest EDPP score in the game) at 100% accuracy and assuming it always hits for the maximum possible base damage only comes in at 145.833.

Since it is widely acknowledged (and I believe largely undisputed) in this thread that it was common for bolt to be boosted to around 70% with just gear and enchantment cards (51% pre-celestia which does include a pet), it should also be acknowledged that it was broken and in need of repair. The moment you were able to get the effective accuracy above 40% using only gear and enchantment cards, bolt went from being "broken" to "wildly broken". It is with these opening assertions in mind that I continue addressing each point with my opinion.

Damage Argument Opinions
Damage of 10 or 100 isn't too low if it can also hit 1000. While I don't agree with the design decision from a strategic standpoint, the new wildbolt is mathematically still stronger on an EDPP basis that most other spells. It is true that wands can do more than 10 damage for 0 pips, but they also do not have a chance at 1000. Storm has never been said to be the most powerful class, just the most damaging. There is nothing anywhere in the storm class (or the rest of the game for that matter) that justifies an EDPP score of 350 (Old Bolt at 70% accuracy) when the average EDPP score of any other storm damage spell at 100% accuracy hovers just shy of 140.

Strategic Argument Opinions
While I wouldn't go so far as to say that bolt no longer has any strategic value, it has most certainly been substantially deflated. It is now "wild" in terms of damage instead of accuracy and also has the dubious honor of being the first spell I can think of to attain a third tactical state. While every other damage spell is either tactically benign (fizzles) or useful (hits), bolt can be tactically detrimental in that a score of 10 or 100 will effectively waste two pips (compared to a wand which will do similar or greater damage for 0 pips) and waste any traps or blades (again compared to a wand from a different school) which have been placed for a more tactically assured storm spell. The chance of a detrimental outcome actually increases as the spell becomes more accurate which is counter to every other spell in the game. I reject the notion that bolt was somehow intended to be an equalizer for Storm's low health, but I acknowledge that it had tremendous tactical value before the change and has now been reduced to a niche spell.

Class Comparative Argument Opinions
Every school has at least one spell which is a waste of pips in the same sense that the new bolt wastes pips in all but a handful of situations. Comparing any other school to Storm and then asserting that bolt was an equalizer for that difference is disingenuous at best. So too is asserting that the new critical system is a way to give every other class wild bolt damage. I acknowledge that there are things which should be looked at and evaluated in other classes, but criticals can be blocked simply by having gear with a block rating (as opposed to bolt cast on an unshielded opponent). I further need to point out that since a critical effectively ups your damage multiplier by 100%, storm has more to gain from this system than any other class because they have the highest base damage in the game.

Customer Service Argument Opinions
The change to wild bolt is a big deal because many customers put a huge amount of time and money (often real money in the from of crowns) into obtaining items and pets which could be used to boost storm accuracy specifically for the purpose of making bolt more useful. The change as it stands now makes much (if not most) of that work futile. I am of the opinion that KI should come up with a third option for bolt. However, I do believe that KI was listening to the larger group of customers when they decided to change bolt.

I acknowledge that it was a HUGE public relations mistake for KI to author a poll which ended up showing that 62% of people hated the change to wild bolt. But if you think that poll was representative of the larger 10 million strong Wizard 101 customer base then I think you are naive. The total number of participants in that survey never topped a couple thousand. Just look at the number of views on the wild bolt thread vs. the "Are there many older gamers playing W101?" thread in Ravenwood Commons. It should be clear that the majority interest in that survey was comprised of the people who relied on bolt and didn't like the change.

In much the same way it is assumed in this thread that the only complaints about bolt came from PvP folks who lost. I think that is a wrong assumption as well because it is clear from perusing these forums that bolt has been considered a problem for a very long time. I personally know a lot of people who used to complain about Storm players who used bolt in PvE. You can chalk it up to jealousy, but it chapped people's hides that in addition to having an arsenal of the most damaging spells in the game, Storm also got a 2 pip spell which could take a strong enemy out on round one with no boosts.

Particularly because this is an all ages game where much of the revenue comes from kids who are notoriously less objective than adults, I think its safe to say that KI was protecting their revenue stream. I think that a lot of thought was put into the change, but I don't think that programmers think about those changes in the same way that the rest of us do. In other words, I think that a lot of positive tactical applications were overlooked in favor of preserving the term "wild" while keeping the expected damage per pip closer to the rest of Storm's spells.

No one likes change, even when its for the better. That is just human nature. It is natural to defend something that was clearly out of balance for fear of something you use being the next target. For what its worth, I don't think that KI has demonstrated any willingness to change things simply because people complain. I think that they try very hard to listen to their customer base and try to only change those things that are thought to be clearly broken.

Miscellaneous Argument Opinions
I believe firmly that when the new bolt hits, there is a one in three chance of doing 10, 100, or 1000 damage contrary to many assertions made in this thread. This post is not meant to be a primer on statistical averages or computer programming, but I will say that I find it highly unlikely that with a sufficiently large sample size (likely 1000 casts or more of a spell) that you will find a statistically significant deviation from the published accuracies on any of these spells. As to why you couldn't just cap the old wild bolt to x% accuracy... well, depending on the suggestion, it may simply not be that easy to implement in the game. Finally... Why would they even add the 30% unstoppable card in the first place? I believe that to be primarily for the use of storm spells by characters who use them as a secondary school and therefore do not benefit from gear accuracy boosts.
This is an incredible post! well written and touches every area of the argument. Everyone should have the chance to read this before giving their complaint. Good work

Survivor
Jul 18, 2009
2
I think that the changes to the wild bolt spell is that the spell should just be taken out of the game because i hardly ever see anyone use that spell

Survivor
Nov 25, 2009
30
I don't think the 10 is fair. I mean even the first rank spells do more damage than that. Just saying. :?

Survivor
Jun 05, 2009
31
gtarhannon wrote:
Draco0209 wrote:

Some of your assertions are wrong,and others I disagree with.

From your salient points

Damage of 10 or 100 is too low for storm

I say damage of 10 or 100 for 2 pips is too low for ANY school.


Damage of 10 and 100 are too low for any school except when balanced with a change to also hit at 1000 which seems to be the thing everyone wants to gloss over on this change. Having said that, I still disagree with the change for tactical reasons.

Draco0209 wrote:

From your opinion section

You state that it is widely acknowleged(and largely undisputed) in
this thread that is was common(pre celestia) for bolt to be boosted
to around 70% with just gear and enchantment cards.


You make a good point here. I didn't catch this mistake before I posted it. The "pre celestia" is an error where I combined two thoughts. The 70% is common and largely undisputed as of Celestia, not pre. I will go edit the post.

I thought you had quoted me with the "common(pre celestia)" portion. While that isn't what I said, I certainly didn't clarify so I edited the original post for clarity.
.

Draco0209 wrote:

I apologize to this poster for deleting some of his/her post,it was
over the character limit.Please look to the original post.


No apologies necessary. As it was, I had to cut off some stuff from that post to get it to fit in the first place. :)


Firstly,thank you for your relpy.I'm glad there is at least one thing
you and I agree on,and that is the implemention that KI choose for
the changed to wild bolt was poor one. (ty for the gracious no need
to apologize as well)

Damage of 10 and 100 are too low for any school except when balanced with a change to also hit at 1000 which seems to be the thing everyone wants to gloss over on this change. Having said that, I still disagree with the change for tactical reasons.

The detrimental negates this. On the test realm I did a test of the new
wild bolt.(previously posted).It took 5 turns,and a total of 8 pips to
kill a lost soul (65 hp).That is is possible for this to happen with a 2 pip
spell, is in my opinion a spell so broken it is rendered useless.

You couldnt be more wrong on that.The best accuracy enchantment
(pre celestia) was a VERY RARE sniper that gave 25%.These where
hard to come by to say the least.With the best storm gear you got
15% storm accuracy.So the BEST accuracy you could get with gear
and enhancement cards was 45%. You did not include the possibility
of storm shot from a pet(which I did not have),with that you get
what,6%?So it was NOT common to have a pre celestia wild bolt
with a 70% accuracy,in fact it wasnt possible.The vast majority of
wild bolts used pre celestia where 30% to 40%.


My figures are the aggregate casting accuracy. What was common pre-celestia (particularly among the "bolter" group) was the base card at 10%, standard storm "grand gear" for 15%, a pet having storm shot at 6% (varied from 1% to 8%, but 6% seems to have been the most common), plus a 20% sniper for a total of 51% accuracy out of the gate. While not the "wildly broken" 70% accuracy which one obtains in Celestia, it is still broken.

I made an error here myself.I should have said the average wild bolt
cast by GRANDMASTER storm with the best gear was 30% to 40%.
Anyone below lvl 50 could not achieve this.Please explain what you
mean by "bolter" group.I'm at a loss. Your figure of 51% is missleading
at best.Too many assumptions.(1) That it was common to have a pet with
storm shot.(2) That the 20% sniper was common and easy to find.(3)
that the caster was a gm with the best gear.The best accuracy I achieved
was 45%(and not for the lack of trying).I joked that it was my "miracle"
bolt.As a side note it took 3 tries before it hit. :)

Its not silly, even by your numbers. I pretty clearly showed how out of balance the old bolt becomes at even 40% aggregate accuracy. A failure to admit that weakens any other arguments you might make in order to convince KI that they should come up with a third option.

That would only be the case if your opinion ( or mine) was undeniable
fact.

You aso stated that all schools have a spell that wastes pips

Please tell me what those are.I have wizards from all schools and
cant for the life of me think what those are.


The new bolt is now more of a niche spell than the old one because its best tactical use is only at the beginning of a match when you hope for 1000 damage to take out one weaker enemy. Outside of that use, it can now be considered a "pip waster" (or worse) should it hit for 10 or 100. Many schools have niche spells that are only tactically useful in a limited number of situations as well. Off the top of my head, the following "waste" pips in the wrong situations: choke-2, blinding light-2, taunt-2, power play-4, and doom and gloom-3. Rebirth for life is arguably in that group as its real tactical value is only realized when playing in a group, but I'm leaving it out for the sake of argument. Yes, I know they aren't damage spells but they are class spells which cost pips and have an even more limited number of tactical uses than the new wild bolt.

None of those are attack spells.Its an apples to oranges comparrison
and does not work.I would also take issue that all of those spells are
"pip wasters".

Childish isn't worth discussing in a "children's" game? Really? The people I mentioned complained to me personally so I have no idea if anyone ever complained directly to KI about it. However, it stands to reason that there were people complaining about it. Therefore, childish or no, it is a reality and worthy of discussion. KI has made an all ages game and is largely dependent on a wide variety of ages for its income. Dismissing feelings is a dangerous road for you to take in this thread because it is precisely feelings that have lead many people here to be upset about the change in the first place.

Not to discount the feelings of children,or anyone else,I would say that
it is irrational to feel jealously over another schools spells.(easy enough
to make a wizard of that school)That you have had people complain to
you about a storm wizard (or any other) astounds me.I simply cannot
understand the thinking there(in a PvE situation).Please tell me why they
would complain at all if they were questing,or farming, and a storm
wizard was helping?

Due to the damage level of storms spells, many already feel that storm is the "favored child" of Wizard 101. Many (if not most) people carry emotional baggage around that this mentality can trigger so don't think for one minute that seeing 4 or 5 successful old bolts in a row isn't going to make some people complain. Not everyone is pleased with a win when they don't get to make a kill; just walk around the spiral for a bit to see evidence of that fact. (Did I use the semicolon correctly there? ) What I am saying with this argument is that just because you don't see the complaints in forums (where people expose themselves to public attacks and often ridicule by those who disagree) doesn't mean that they didn't complain to KI in any of several more private avenues. Therefore, arguments that "no one complained about bolt in PvE" do not necessarily hold water.

"Many"feel storm is the "favored child"??? Well, I know Many storm
wizards that feel quite the opposite on that!!!! If you look at the guide
it says (I'm paraphrasing here) that storm deals high damage at the cost
of poor accuracy and low health.As to the jealously issue again,make a
storm wizard if you feel that way. (I am sadly not the person to ask
about punctuation,as I'm sure you have noticed.:) ) lol


lol I have to apologize again for deleting some of your post

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
Draco0209 wrote:

Firstly,thank you for your relpy.I'm glad there is at least one thing
you and I agree on,and that is the implemention that KI choose for
the changed to wild bolt was poor one. (ty for the gracious no need
to apologize as well)


No problem.

Draco0209 wrote:
gtarhannon wrote:
Damage of 10 and 100 are too low for any school except when balanced with a change to also hit at 1000 which seems to be the thing everyone wants to gloss over on this change. Having said that, I still disagree with the change for tactical reasons.


The detrimental negates this. On the test realm I did a test of the new
wild bolt.(previously posted).It took 5 turns,and a total of 8 pips to
kill a lost soul (65 hp).That is is possible for this to happen with a 2 pip
spell, is in my opinion a spell so broken it is rendered useless.


The old bolt (pre massive accuracy boosts) could have easily taken many more than 5 rounds to kill the lost soul also. While I agree that the new bolt is tactically limited (the point you and I agree on), that doesn't mean it isn't balanced. The expected damage over time with this spell is still greater per pip than most other spells in the game.

Draco0209 wrote:
gtarhannon wrote:
My figures are the aggregate casting accuracy. What was common pre-celestia (particularly among the "bolter" group) was the base card at 10%, standard storm "grand gear" for 15%, a pet having storm shot at 6% (varied from 1% to 8%, but 6% seems to have been the most common), plus a 20% sniper for a total of 51% accuracy out of the gate. While not the "wildly broken" 70% accuracy which one obtains in Celestia, it is still broken.


I made an error here myself.I should have said the average wild bolt
cast by GRANDMASTER storm with the best gear was 30% to 40%.
Anyone below lvl 50 could not achieve this.Please explain what you
mean by "bolter" group.I'm at a loss. Your figure of 51% is missleading
at best.Too many assumptions.(1) That it was common to have a pet with
storm shot.(2) That the 20% sniper was common and easy to find.(3)
that the caster was a gm with the best gear.The best accuracy I achieved
was 45%(and not for the lack of trying).I joked that it was my "miracle"
bolt.As a side note it took 3 tries before it hit. :)


I assumed it common knowledge that the real problems with bolt began at Grand Master with full storm "grand gear" and became magnified with the arrival of Celestia. I apologize for not being more clear on that point. The "bolter" group I refer to is the collective group of players who spammed wild bolt primarily in the arena. You can find numerous references to them scattered throughout these forums. I disagree that my figure of 51% is misleading, particularly among the bolters. Obtaining this level of accuracy was well documented and mostly required time and tenacity. However, in the interest of moving this discussion forward can we at least agree that pre-Celestian aggregate bolt accuracy was commonly around 40% as it is clear that you often obtained that figure?

Draco0209 wrote:
gtarhannon wrote:
Its not silly, even by your numbers. I pretty clearly showed how out of balance the old bolt becomes at even 40% aggregate accuracy. A failure to admit that weakens any other arguments you might make in order to convince KI that they should come up with a third option.


That would only be the case if your opinion ( or mine) was undeniable
fact.


What is deniable here? Clearly you often achieved 40% accuracy before the release of Celestia and the formula for expected damage per pip is simple math. Once Celestia had been completed, it was extremely easy to get around 60% accuracy with 70% quite common. Just look at the comments in this thread alone. The old bolt was definitely out of balance and becoming more so every day.

Draco0209 wrote:
gtarhannon wrote:
The new bolt is now more of a niche spell than the old one because its best tactical use is only at the beginning of a match when you hope for 1000 damage to take out one weaker enemy. Outside of that use, it can now be considered a "pip waster" (or worse) should it hit for 10 or 100. Many schools have niche spells that are only tactically useful in a limited number of situations as well. Off the top of my head, the following "waste" pips in the wrong situations: choke-2, blinding light-2, taunt-2, power play-4, and doom and gloom-3. Rebirth for life is arguably in that group as its real tactical value is only realized when playing in a group, but I'm leaving it out for the sake of argument. Yes, I know they aren't damage spells but they are class spells which cost pips and have an even more limited number of tactical uses than the new wild bolt.


None of those are attack spells.Its an apples to oranges comparrison
and does not work.I would also take issue that all of those spells are
"pip wasters".


I thought I was very clear here. I even mentioned that I acknowledged that they weren't damage spells. Because I am referring to its use as a tactical spell, it is not an apples to oranges comparison. I am illustrating that using the new bolt outside of its area of tactical value (ie. possibly removing one enemy for only two pips usually at the beginning of the duel) makes it a "pip waster". In the same way, using any of the above spells would make them a "pip waster" outside of their respective areas of tactical value.

It should be obvious that neither version of wild bolt was ever intended by KI to be relied upon as a "go to" attack spell. Therefore, its only other possible use was a tactical one. It then follows that judging it against other class tactical spells is an apt and accurate comparison. While I freely admit that the above mentioned spells have tactical use, how effective are choke, blinding light and taunt in solo play? How useful is power play when it boosts enemy power pip chance the same amount it boosts yours? When was the last time you saw someone derive strategic value from doom and gloom outside the arena? If these comparisons don't apply to wild bolt, then it isn't a primarily tactical spell. If it isn't a primarily tactical spell, then the only real argument for a third option goes away leaving the new bolt just fine the way it is.

Draco0209 wrote:
Not to discount the feelings of children,or anyone else,I would say that it is irrational to feel jealously over another schools spells.(easy enough to make a wizard of that school)That you have had people complain to you about a storm wizard (or any other) astounds me.I simply cannot understand the thinking there(in a PvE situation).Please tell me why they would complain at all if they were questing,or farming, and a storm wizard was helping?


Of course it isn't rational. People aren't rational. However, what is rational is for a company who relies on irrational people for their income to make a change so that those same irrational people won't leave and take their money with them. As to the why... who knows? As previously stated, people aren't rational.

Draco0209 wrote:
gtarhannon wrote:
Due to the damage level of storms spells, many already feel that storm is the "favored child" of Wizard 101. Many (if not most) people carry emotional baggage around that this mentality can trigger so don't think for one minute that seeing 4 or 5 successful old bolts in a row isn't going to make some people complain. Not everyone is pleased with a win when they don't get to make a kill; just walk around the spiral for a bit to see evidence of that fact. (Did I use the semicolon correctly there? ) What I am saying with this argument is that just because you don't see the complaints in forums (where people expose themselves to public attacks and often ridicule by those who disagree) doesn't mean that they didn't complain to KI in any of several more private avenues. Therefore, arguments that "no one complained about bolt in PvE" do not necessarily hold water.


"Many"feel storm is the "favored child"??? Well, I know Many storm
wizards that feel quite the opposite on that!!!! If you look at the guide
it says (I'm paraphrasing here) that storm deals high damage at the cost
of poor accuracy and low health.As to the jealously issue again,make a
storm wizard if you feel that way. (I am sadly not the person to ask
about punctuation,as I'm sure you have noticed.:) ) lol


Have you never farmed with a storm where every duel is basically blade, blade, storm lord, and *poof* it smells like bacon in here? I have and its incredibly boring. Can you not see how that could make others feel that Storm was the "favored child"? Obviously they are balanced against low health and accuracy... but do you not see the constant comparisons to storm damage in these forums? How about the many statements from storm wizards which read "Storm is the most powerful class" instead of "Storm is the most damaging class"? Clearly a lot of people have a complex about it.

Human nature is human nature. Its not rational and it never will be. Contrary to popular wisdom, if the jealous cannot "beat them", they seldom "join them". I could go into a whole detailed expose on what I think the psychological reasons are as to why people might complain, but it doesn't really matter. The reality is that people will complain and I have heard them complain. I am illustrating that KI may have been listening to the larger community regardless of the PR mistake that was the new wild bolt poll. These are but a few of the realities that KI has to deal with if they want to stay in business.

Draco0209 wrote:
lol I have to apologize again for deleting some of your post


LOL. Again, no need. :)

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Ok, Gtarhannon and Draco, time to set the "Record" Straight on the "New Wild Bolt" vs "Old Wild Bolt"

1.Old Wild Bolt, did not waste pips.
2.Old Wild Bolt, had 10 + 15 (Grand Gear) = +25 Accuracy! Now, back then it was not common to find Sniper! but you did get lucky from time to time. And then, on very very rare, you could find +25 sniper. But most often, you found keen eyes enchanted, or accuracy of +15%
So, normal accuracy boost for Wild bolt was around 40%! add 6% for those who took the time and trouble to add storm shot to their pet, but I think they deserve that feature, since they earned it!

So, where exactly is wild bolt broken? Oh, because of the PVP whiners! That's right! Sorry, no love for them! They whine about healing, they whine about dispel, they whine about shields, they just whine!

Now, Old Wild Bolt in Celestia
Even with Celestian Gear, the Accuracy only goest up 24%
Of course, now there is Unstoppable +30% (Common Drop), accuracy aura +10%, lightning strike +10% so accuracy is now boosted to 84% but takes 2 rounds to boost!
(Now, correct me if I am wrong, but ice with 85% accuracy and death with 85% accuracy, fizzle A LOT! and have had many complaints about how often they fizzle at that accuracy!)
Ok, so you can have a pet, and take accuracy to 90% and fizzle less, but it still takes 2 rounds to boost the accuracy up!

I would say, the only reason the Old Wild Bolt is Broken now, is because of how easy it is to get Unstoppable! But that is what unstoppable is meant to be, is Unstoppable!

Now, New Wild Bolt!
1.Useless to anyone that does not have critical boost!
2.Wastes of pips and time
3. Is even More OverPowered than Old Wild Bolt - What nobody ever considered is this. Now, with 70% accuracy, and 24% accuracy to celestian gear, you have 94% accuracy, plus 6% from pet, =100% accuracy! Never Fizzle again! Now, add in 150 to critical Hits and 225 or 250 gargantuan to the New Wild Bolt = 388,536,or 2021 damage for 2 pips using card
or 429,578, or 2063 with Treasure card
Now Critical Hit these, because you can't fizzle!
776,1072,4042 or 858,1156,4126

Talk about spam bolting pre celestia, why would anyone do anything else now with this gear? And these numbers are right off the bat, no need to cast anything at all. If anything, storm might want to cast vengeance, to ensure Critical every attack!

But, you brainiacs always think you are right and that the old bolt was so broken and unfair! Yet, you miss the most simple equations!

Now, New Wild Bold, 70#

Explorer
Mar 22, 2009
71
i think you should ONLY change wild bolt when going in any pvp battle. outside of pvp it should be like it usually is without changes. or a new rule saying wild bolt is restricted in pvp- (NOT THE REAL GAME) as a pyromacer i dont see how regular wild bolt ouside pvp is a problem. because when me and my diviner friend are in a super tough battle, he uses wild bolt to get us through. it doesnt work like that anymore.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
Ok, I have posted a reply a few times to some of the facts and figures that have been addressed. In my reply, I gave exact facts and figures on how the old wild bolt is not broke, but the new wild bolt is broken. I have never downed KI for this, nor have I talked bad about any of the other posters.

Yet, for some reason, my posts are not making it! So, that leaves me to believe that I hit a critical nerve and someone is trying to cover up a mistake, because, the New wild bolt is the bolt that is broken.

The only thing broken about the old wild bolt, is the complaints it recieved from PVP, that is the old broken record!

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

So, normal accuracy boost for Wild bolt was around 40%! add 6% for those who took the time and trouble to add storm shot to their pet, but I think they deserve that feature, since they earned it!

So, where exactly is wild bolt broken?


So you agree that 40% (or higher) was common. Great. With an expected damage per pip of 200 for 40% accuracy, it is broken at that point, just not broken enough to do anything about it yet.

darthjt wrote:

Now, Old Wild Bolt in Celestia
Even with Celestian Gear, the Accuracy only goest up 24%
Of course, now there is Unstoppable +30% (Common Drop), accuracy aura +10%, lightning strike +10% so accuracy is now boosted to 84% but takes 2 rounds to boost!
(Now, correct me if I am wrong, but ice with 85% accuracy and death with 85% accuracy, fizzle A LOT! and have had many complaints about how often they fizzle at that accuracy!)
Ok, so you can have a pet, and take accuracy to 90% and fizzle less, but it still takes 2 rounds to boost the accuracy up!


So you also agree that around 70% is a good figure for what is common for just gear, pets, and enchantment cards as of Celestia. Cool again. Now that you are up to an expected damage per pip of 350 at 70%... Wildly broken to the point KI must do something.

darthjt wrote:

Now, New Wild Bolt!
1.Useless to anyone that does not have critical boost!
2.Wastes of pips and time
3. Is even More OverPowered than Old Wild Bolt - What nobody ever considered is this. Now, with 70% accuracy, and 24% accuracy to celestian gear, you have 94% accuracy, plus 6% from pet, =100% accuracy! Never Fizzle again! Now, add in 150 to critical Hits and 225 or 250 gargantuan to the New Wild Bolt = 388,536,or 2021 damage for 2 pips using card
or 429,578, or 2063 with Treasure card
Now Critical Hit these, because you can't fizzle!
776,1072,4042 or 858,1156,4126


Yes, the new bolt is broken as well. However, I don't think you've successfully made the case that it is MORE overpowered than the old bolt. Both versions would have been affected by the gear you have featured (and which you have obviously used to calculate the damage scores) so to break it down to base spell expected damage per pip... The old bolt was 350 at 70%. The new bolt is 185 at 100%. Because I'm sure you'll go there next, the expected damage per pip of a treasure gargantuan new bolt is 310 at 100% accuracy.

darthjt wrote:

But, you brainiacs always think you are right and that the old bolt was so broken and unfair! Yet, you miss the most simple equations!


Why do you insist on constantly throwing these little barbs into so many of your posts? You have belittled almost everyone's education (though were it you posting this, I'm certain you'd use the term "intelligence" based on your previous postings) but it seems to be you who is failing to grasp the most simple of equations... damage * accuracy / pip cost.

Survivor
Jul 26, 2010
8
Professor Greyrose wrote:
We've listened to our community, done internal balance testing and had exhaustive discussions about the spell Wild Bolt, and have change the Wild Bolt spell based on this research.

Wild Bolt will now have 70% accuracy and do 10, 100, or 1000 damage.

We will continue to monitor how this impacts the balance of the game, as well as listen to all players feedback.

We ask that you take some time to play with this version of Wild Bolt before jumping to conclusions. It's truly a Wild Bolt now!

All posts regarding this change MUST go in this thread, other posts will not be approved. Let's keep it civilized, constructive and creative please.
seriosly 1000 damage is like cheating.

Armiger
May 10, 2010
2080
gtarhannon wrote:
darthjt wrote:

So, normal accuracy boost for Wild bolt was around 40%! add 6% for those who took the time and trouble to add storm shot to their pet, but I think they deserve that feature, since they earned it!

So, where exactly is wild bolt broken?


So you agree that 40% (or higher) was common. Great. With an expected damage per pip of 200 for 40% accuracy, it is broken at that point, just not broken enough to do anything about it yet.

Ok, I agree with you so far, damage per pip is 200 at 40% accuracy. Of course we are only talking about level 45 and above to have this much accuracy. Let's not forget the entire journey storm has to take with this spell, since storm learns it at lvl 35, IF they have done all the side quests up to this point!

darthjt wrote:

Now, Old Wild Bolt in Celestia
Even with Celestian Gear, the Accuracy only goest up 24%
Of course, now there is Unstoppable +30% (Common Drop), accuracy aura +10%, lightning strike +10% so accuracy is now boosted to 84% but takes 2 rounds to boost!
(Now, correct me if I am wrong, but ice with 85% accuracy and death with 85% accuracy, fizzle A LOT! and have had many complaints about how often they fizzle at that accuracy!)
Ok, so you can have a pet, and take accuracy to 90% and fizzle less, but it still takes 2 rounds to boost the accuracy up!


So you also agree that around 70% is a good figure for what is common for just gear, pets, and enchantment cards as of Celestia. Cool again. Now that you are up to an expected damage per pip of 350 at 70%... Wildly broken to the point KI must do something.

Okay, I do understand your math skills here, and according to that, I must agree with you, however! In normal mathmatical equations, 90% means 9 out of 10, correct? 70% means 7 out of 10? Yet, this is not the way of accuracy in terms of Wizard 101. Take ice, death, or any school you like, and test the so called accuracy and see if you actually get those percentages! Fact is, you wont!

Now, Still on your point, Storm gets 70% accuracy at what, level 55 or 56? and that is, if storm has a pet that gives storm shot or sure shot! Otherwise we are down to 64%, not that it would change much based on damage * accuracy / pips.


darthjt wrote:

Now, New Wild Bolt!
1.Useless to anyone that does not have critical boost!
2.Wastes of pips and time
3. Is even More OverPowered than Old Wild Bolt - What nobody ever considered is this. Now, with 70% accuracy, and 24% accuracy to celestian gear, you have 94% accuracy, plus 6% from pet, =100% accuracy! Never Fizzle again! Now, add in 150 to critical Hits and 225 or 250 gargantuan to the New Wild Bolt = 388,536,or 2021 damage for 2 pips using card
or 429,578, or 2063 with Treasure card
Now Critical Hit these, because you can't fizzle!
776,1072,4042 or 858,1156,4126


Yes, the new bolt is broken as well. However, I don't think you've successfully made the case that it is MORE overpowered than the old bolt. Both versions would have been affected by the gear you have featured (and which you have obviously used to calculate the damage scores) so to break it down to base spell expected damage per pip... The old bolt was 350 at 70%. The new bolt is 185 at 100%. Because I'm sure you'll go there next, the expected damage per pip of a treasure gargantuan new bolt is 310 at 100% accuracy.

Not sure where you get 310 at 100% accuracy, but lets check the figures, shall we? Oh, wait, I am adding in the gear boosts of 65%!
260=130, 350=175, or 1250=625 all at 100% so, you added them up, and then divided by 3 for 310. Gotcha! Yet, 310 per pip is a lot more than 200 ever was, is it not?

Yet, we are still talking about the boosting of gear, from Grand gear of 15% accuracy and 40% damage, to 24% accuracy and 65% damage at level 55!

darthjt wrote:

But, you brainiacs always think you are right and that the old bolt was so broken and unfair! Yet, you miss the most simple equations!


Why do you insist on constantly throwing these little barbs into so many of your posts? You have belittled almost everyone's education (though were it you posting this, I'm certain you'd use the term "intelligence" based on your previous postings) but it seems to be you who is failing to grasp the most simple of equations... damage * accuracy / pip cost.


I am quite well aware of the the mathmatics thank you very much. Yet, what everyone still fails to realize, is Bolt is worse off now than it has ever been! If the old Bolt was still in play, a 70% chance is still mostly fizzles. Look how often storm fizzled at the beginning with normal spells! Yes, the damage ratio is 200, but it is not 310 as with the new Wild Bolt. Also, the old wildbolt is still statistically sound to use throughout the game, while the New WildBolt, is completely useless until the character reaches level 56!

I am not missing any equation that has been involved, everyone else has. Bolt is not only for Grandmasters and Legendaries!

Astrologist
Jun 04, 2010
1008
darthjt wrote:

Ok, I agree with you so far, damage per pip is 200 at 40% accuracy. Of course we are only talking about level 45 and above to have this much accuracy. Let's not forget the entire journey storm has to take with this spell, since storm learns it at lvl 35, IF they have done all the side quests up to this point!


I don't see where you are going with this argument. If we're still talking about damage arguments then the new bolt is more advantageous on an expected damage per pip basis during this phase of the game. In fact, the tipping point isn't until you have an aggregate accuracy boost of 26% (old bolt at 36% and new 96%) where old bolt comes in at 180 and old comes in at 177.6.

darthjt wrote:

Okay, I do understand your math skills here, and according to that, I must agree with you, however! In normal mathmatical equations, 90% means 9 out of 10, correct? 70% means 7 out of 10? Yet, this is not the way of accuracy in terms of Wizard 101. Take ice, death, or any school you like, and test the so called accuracy and see if you actually get those percentages! Fact is, you wont!


Yes. In this context, 90% would mean 9 out of 10 given a large enough sample size. For instance, I'm sure that you would agree that flipping a coin has a 50% chance of heads or tails. Note that each individual flip has a 50% chance. However, you are very likely to get heads multiple times in a row and in a small enough sample set (say 10 flips) you could easily come out with 80% heads. That doesn't mean its an 80% chance instead of 50%. It means that your sample size isn't large enough. So the fact is, over the course of the game the accuracy is (ironically enough) accurate.

darthjt wrote:

Now, Still on your point, Storm gets 70% accuracy at what, level 55 or 56? and that is, if storm has a pet that gives storm shot or sure shot! Otherwise we are down to 64%, not that it would change much based on damage * accuracy / pips.


There are a lot of variables here depending on what gear they choose, how they arrange it, and what enchantment cards they apply. I really can neither confirm nor deny your statements here. I have seen very high gear accuracy as low as level 52, and you typically have access to the archivist at this point as well.

darthjt wrote:

Not sure where you get 310 at 100% accuracy, but lets check the figures, shall we? Oh, wait, I am adding in the gear boosts of 65%!
260=130, 350=175, or 1250=625 all at 100% so, you added them up, and then divided by 3 for 310. Gotcha! Yet, 310 per pip is a lot more than 200 ever was, is it not?


Why do you insist on doing this? 310 assumes gargantuan (and a treasure gargantuan at that) and a 30% accuracy gear boost. To keep the comparison at the same level you MUST assume the old wild bolt at 70% accuracy (30% gear + 30% unstoppable) which makes the figures 310 (new bolt) and 350 (old bolt).

darthjt wrote:

Yet, we are still talking about the boosting of gear, from Grand gear of 15% accuracy and 40% damage, to 24% accuracy and 65% damage at level 55!


And?

darthjt wrote:

I am quite well aware of the the mathmatics thank you very much. Yet, what everyone still fails to realize, is Bolt is worse off now than it has ever been! If the old Bolt was still in play, a 70% chance is still mostly fizzles.


*sigh* I suppose if you define 30% of the time to be mostly fizzles, then yes, it would fizzle most of the time. "Worse off" is totally different than "more overpowered" which is what you asserted in your previous post.

darthjt wrote:
Look how often storm fizzled at the beginning with normal spells! Yes, the damage ratio is 200, but it is not 310 as with the new Wild Bolt. Also, the old wildbolt is still statistically sound to use throughout the game, while the New WildBolt, is completely useless until the character reaches level 56!


You and I have already hashed and rehashed this. I don't understand why in your examples you never seem to want to break them down to even footing. 200 is the old bolt at 40% accuracy and 310 is the new bolt at 100% accuracy with a treasure card gargantuan. Those figures aren't even remotely from the same stage of the game. While I think the new bolt is broken, terming it as completely useless is inaccurate at best. A simple tough card freely available at the library for 50 gold can be used to offset the low damage outcomes while giving you a good shot at 1075. Being that you're such a fan of comparing the new bolt with damage enchantments added to it, I would think you'd be inclined to acknowledge that.

darthjt wrote:
I am not missing any equation that has been involved, everyone else has. Bolt is not only for Grandmasters and Legendaries!


You're right... Its everyone else that's missing something. You aren't making an emotional argument at all. The new bolt has absolutely no value until Grandmaster and beyond. Now kindly let Draco0209 and I resume our conversation in peace please.