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Feedback Friday - Deckathalon Event Feedback

1
AuthorMessage
Administrator
It’s Friday yet again, and we’ve got exciting things happening, so it’s time for feedback!

This week saw our first Deckathalon event – the Ice Deckathalon event. We had a lot of fun designing and probably even more playtesting it, but we want to know what YOU think. What’s your favorite thing about it? What’s the one thing that you’d improve? We’re excited to hear your thoughts!

Have a fiery Friday folks!


Standard disclaimer applies: We do not guarantee to use each and every idea submitted, and questions we pose may or may not be pertaining to things we are currently working on, or will ever undertake. Sometimes, there are just technical limitations that make changing things difficult to impossible, and though we possess all manner of magic wands here, there are technological beasts out there that are beyond our grasp. Sometimes, we may not feel it is within the spirit and vision of the spiral to add or change something. Also, we realize that some of these topics may have been addressed before in other threads - sometimes it's good to pick up a discussion again. Chances are I have read your threads and would like to hear more!

“If the Mind is like a candle, the Heart is like the sun.” Professor Falmea (aka Leah Ruben, your fearless Producer!)
Astrologist
Dec 31, 2009
1013
I think the point system could use some work to make it more advantageous to farm the higher stages, as it is now you can get more points just spamming the lower ones with ease.

We could also use some transmutes for the higher level reagents such as improvement and strengthening runes or an increase in the drop rate.

Was disappointed the incorrect leaderboard was posted as the final result this week.

Other than that I think its great, can not wait to see the other schools!

A+ Student
Jan 18, 2010
1947
I must say, this is quite a unique and throwback era that most "hardcore" fans have been dying for!

I also like the fact that this content is optional and not required to progress through the main storyline.

Additionally, I would like to see a few improvements made to the point system the event current uses.

Please also look into the drop rates of some these items as well.

I am anticipating what the and probably even the astral schools (which I think you should do) will be like!


Mastermind
Feb 07, 2010
388
Make versions for the remaining four schools of magic.

Historian
Feb 12, 2015
610
As for me, What I like best was the stat regulation. It made me feel a bit like I was playing the game all over again! It added a certain, underlying kind of element that I haven't felt in YEARS! I like how they all have casting sounds (The start of giving all the creatures casting sounds!) and increasing difficulty (each floor harder and better then the last.) and Tower Shields... okay, the Tower Shields are a bit annoying. But that's what I like!

Delver
Aug 21, 2013
230
Not related to the test content, but having the double gardening rewards more often would be greatly appreciated. Either that or adding an elixir to the crown shop to grant double gardening rewards for an hour or more.

Illuminator
Mar 31, 2009
1270
Well, I understand that it was test realms so bugs are likely to run amok, but I was a little disappointed that the boards were reset half way through.

I personally had some difficulty beating the fourth floor. I did so once, but I wasn't sure if that was the max level or not because I didn't unlock anything and had a time getting to it again.

I also don't know how I feel about the patching out of Insane Bolt. I feel like that was a viable strategy, though I suppose there is an unfair advantage for Storms making TCs from cards too easy.

I also thought it was dumb that Polymorph TCs are not allowed. If this is the case I feel that it should be mentioned somewhere in one of the tutorial information places.

I personally don't care for the ranking system, but that's because I don't have time to grind for hours upon hours. I much prefer the reaching a certain point level.

I also only experienced the get a pack at 165 crown price. I feel that is a fair price, but again I didn't get to try the other variants just heard about it.

I am interested in seeing the other Deckatholon events. I do feel that it was rather difficult to get Fire Runes, and that was even after purchasing a bunch of packs. I guess that will balance out a little bit more after the other schools get turns in the Deckatholon.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
First of all I must say I really enjoy this even and how it teaches players health, pip and card management all at once. I also enjoy both the cosmetic rewards and tangible ones such as new pets, a perm mount and new tc(as well as newly available tc for crafting). Well done!

On to the feedback- most of it relates to the point system. As it stands now players can more effectively farm the lower stages for points instead of the higher stages. Here are my observations:

It takes me less than a minute to complete the entire Stage 2 and I am awarded 8 total points
It takes me 8 minutes to complete the entire Stage 4 and I am awarded 16 total points
In the amount of time it takes me to do Stage 4 for 16 points I can do Stage 2 eight times and end up with 64 points.

As such either points need to be redistributed to more favor higher stages or you could add a completion reward to each stage that is significantly higher for the last stage.

The same issue occurs for different floors of the same stage. By my observations:

It takes me less than a minute to complete Stage 4 floor 1 and I earn 4 points
It takes me almost 6 minutes to complete Stage 4 floor 2 and I earn 8 points
It takes less than a minute to complete Stage 4 floor 3 and I earn 4 points

So once again in the time it would take me to complete Floors 1, Floors 2 and Floor 3 for a total of 16 points I can just spam Floor 1 eight times and earn 32 points.

Once again the solution to this is some kind of Stage completion point reward

Another issue is time invested vs skill. Speaking as the #1 person on the latest Test leaderboard I can safely say that time invested far trumps skill when it comes to getting and maintaining a high position on the leaderboard. This will be especially true once the Deckathalon comes to live realm and the ideal strategies become more well known.

A person who completes the Stages effectively and efficiently in a short amount of time still can't compete with the unskilled player who simply stays up all night. While I understand that rewarding a rigidly committed but unskilled player might make sense from a business perspective it really shuts out those who don't have a whole lot of free time regardless how skilled.

As such I recommend adding bonus points for completions that are faster than a certain time threshold and that use significantly less tc than the average. This will allow skillful players without a lot of time to compete with players with more free time. Players with more free time will still come out on top more often than not but a change like this could give skilled players with less time a chance to make it onto the leaderboards. Pirate 101 has successfully implemented this type of system in the Tower of Moo Manchu where completion of the initial Stages within a certain timeframe will reward the teams with bonus chests to open.

Finally I think the drops of rare tc and runes need to be improved. By my observations I only received one of the new Fire Wyvern tc in all my runs of the Ice Deckathalon and improvement runes drop only once the community progress bar has completely filled and only on Stage 4 floor 3. Improving drop rates will help keep player motivation up and will serve to ensure that crafting those sweet Infinity Gauntlets won't seem insurmountable.

Thanks for reading my thesis on deckathalon improvement ha ha.

Geographer
Aug 23, 2016
968
I love the fact that the deckathalon uses TCs. It now gives wizards something else to spend gold on.

Gamma really needs to let folks know that your health is going to be significantly lower than even your base. After listening to our favorite owl, I was aware that none of my gear would be functional but shocked when my health was 1/6th of what it should be without my gear.

Steven Ghoststalker
130

Defender
Jun 17, 2012
156
I love the deckathalon event and first of all would like to thank the developers for bringing this fun challenge to WC!
I see that there were a few videos on a strategy using the Shift Piscean spell, which only storm wizards can use. I looked up if there was a way to purchase these TC's but there is not. That was disappointing, but the rest of us can still use other spells. I am not sure how I feel about our school being irrelevant. The first few times I ran the deckathalon I was using death spells on my death wiz, balance spells on my balance wiz, etc. But the school that your wizard is doesn't really matter, we all have the same chance to cast a fire elf or a tempest even if we are not fire or storm wizards. While that is fun, there should be some kind of advantage from your school IMO. Since this was an ice deckathalon event, fire wizards have the obvious advantage and that will change as different school of magic are highlighted in each deckathalon. But how will a balance wizard have an advantage? Also I noticed that as you advance to the higher stages, the health of the enemies is higher and they have more pips PLUS power pips. The most us wizards have is two pips to start with and no power pips. I think if the enemies get power pips, we should also. Again this goes back to our school advantage. As we progress to the higher levels, we will NEED these power pips to cast our school spells!
While I understand that we are using strategy to get by and I support that, the amount of our base health should increase with each STAGE. Since the enemies health is increased we also need a health increase for those stage 3 and 4 levels. I appreciate that we can get a health boost from our equipped pet or deck, but this will not be enough to save us if there is a level 5. I also saw several videos where people were struggling with stage 3 and some wizards were never able to get past it to level 4. I know a few who were able to get past stage 4 but barely. Was there a stage 5? If you could increase our health a bit as we progress from stage to stage, this should make it doable for most and make it more competitive and less frustrating than dying repeatedly. The gold cost to buy more credits is spot on. Thank you for making this available for gold and not crowns. Really appreciate that. Thank you for all that you have done to make this event special and unique!

Survivor
Jul 03, 2012
2
I think that the leaderboards should be split between levels for certain tiers. I mean, higher level players are going to be the only ones getting to the top spots because lower level characters don't have the budget to buy the necessary treasure cards, and this would also give newer players more of a chance to get a neat pet. Other than that, this event is really cool and I'm liking it a lot so far.

Administrator
Thanks everyone for the feedback on this past Ice Deckathalon event! Now begins the Death Deckathalon!

Astrologist
Dec 31, 2009
1013
Nordic Champion on Apr 14, 2019 wrote:
I love the deckathalon event and first of all would like to thank the developers for bringing this fun challenge to WC!
I see that there were a few videos on a strategy using the Shift Piscean spell, which only storm wizards can use. I looked up if there was a way to purchase these TC's but there is not. That was disappointing, but the rest of us can still use other spells. I am not sure how I feel about our school being irrelevant. The first few times I ran the deckathalon I was using death spells on my death wiz, balance spells on my balance wiz, etc. But the school that your wizard is doesn't really matter, we all have the same chance to cast a fire elf or a tempest even if we are not fire or storm wizards. While that is fun, there should be some kind of advantage from your school IMO. Since this was an ice deckathalon event, fire wizards have the obvious advantage and that will change as different school of magic are highlighted in each deckathalon. But how will a balance wizard have an advantage? Also I noticed that as you advance to the higher stages, the health of the enemies is higher and they have more pips PLUS power pips. The most us wizards have is two pips to start with and no power pips. I think if the enemies get power pips, we should also. Again this goes back to our school advantage. As we progress to the higher levels, we will NEED these power pips to cast our school spells!
While I understand that we are using strategy to get by and I support that, the amount of our base health should increase with each STAGE. Since the enemies health is increased we also need a health increase for those stage 3 and 4 levels. I appreciate that we can get a health boost from our equipped pet or deck, but this will not be enough to save us if there is a level 5. I also saw several videos where people were struggling with stage 3 and some wizards were never able to get past it to level 4. I know a few who were able to get past stage 4 but barely. Was there a stage 5? If you could increase our health a bit as we progress from stage to stage, this should make it doable for most and make it more competitive and less frustrating than dying repeatedly. The gold cost to buy more credits is spot on. Thank you for making this available for gold and not crowns. Really appreciate that. Thank you for all that you have done to make this event special and unique!
Anyone can train any shift spell, as you are only getting white pips, the school of the spells you use do not really matter at all. Storm or any school blades (except balance) are readily available at the arcanum librarian.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1025
Nordic Champion on Apr 14, 2019 wrote:
I love the deckathalon event and first of all would like to thank the developers for bringing this fun challenge to WC!
I see that there were a few videos on a strategy using the Shift Piscean spell, which only storm wizards can use. I looked up if there was a way to purchase these TC's but there is not. That was disappointing, but the rest of us can still use other spells. I am not sure how I feel about our school being irrelevant. The first few times I ran the deckathalon I was using death spells on my death wiz, balance spells on my balance wiz, etc. But the school that your wizard is doesn't really matter, we all have the same chance to cast a fire elf or a tempest even if we are not fire or storm wizards. While that is fun, there should be some kind of advantage from your school IMO. Since this was an ice deckathalon event, fire wizards have the obvious advantage and that will change as different school of magic are highlighted in each deckathalon. But how will a balance wizard have an advantage? Also I noticed that as you advance to the higher stages, the health of the enemies is higher and they have more pips PLUS power pips. The most us wizards have is two pips to start with and no power pips. I think if the enemies get power pips, we should also. Again this goes back to our school advantage. As we progress to the higher levels, we will NEED these power pips to cast our school spells!
While I understand that we are using strategy to get by and I support that, the amount of our base health should increase with each STAGE. Since the enemies health is increased we also need a health increase for those stage 3 and 4 levels. I appreciate that we can get a health boost from our equipped pet or deck, but this will not be enough to save us if there is a level 5. I also saw several videos where people were struggling with stage 3 and some wizards were never able to get past it to level 4. I know a few who were able to get past stage 4 but barely. Was there a stage 5? If you could increase our health a bit as we progress from stage to stage, this should make it doable for most and make it more competitive and less frustrating than dying repeatedly. The gold cost to buy more credits is spot on. Thank you for making this available for gold and not crowns. Really appreciate that. Thank you for all that you have done to make this event special and unique!
Hi the shift Piscean spells are available to any class wizard once they have quested far enough. Talk to Arkyn Moonblade in the Eclipse tower(located in the moon cliffs of khyrsalis) to train this spell.

A+ Student
Jan 18, 2010
1947
Please keep the thread open so we can share our thoughts on this one as well!


Historian
Feb 12, 2015
610
Sparck on Apr 15, 2019 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the feedback on this past Ice Deckathalon event! Now begins the Death Deckathalon!
Death Deckathalon tips:

You don't have to worry about Tower Shield anymore, hooray!

These enemies enjoy steal health spells. Try to take them out in one big hit.

These enemies can use Infection. Heals aren't as helpful here.

Use an enhanced Tempest to clear them all out!

Defender
Jun 17, 2012
156
Thank you to the wizards who replied to my post about the Shift Piscean spell. I was aware that the spell could be trained, but since we can only use treasure cards in the deckathalon tower, I was wondering about the availability of Shift Piscean treasure cards. I have never seen one for sale in the bazaar and unless I am mistaken, only Storm wizards can craft these treasure cards.

Explorer
Jan 18, 2009
70
First of all, thank you for this event, it is lovely!

I would like to suggest the following, as I felt there was lack of clarity for wizards upon entering the event (or event knowing what the event is):

-Wizards should be allowed no-cost, no-reward practice runs (or at least one 'practice credit' per day) so that we can see what's actually happening inside the Deckathlon tower
-It should be clear that enchanted treasure cards are not available for use in the event - perhaps a warning "Wizard! You have enchanted treasure cards in your sideboard and they will be deactivated upon entry - proceed anyway?"
-It would be nice to know the total number of floors or creatures in a stage, so that we know at least vaguely whether to expect a fifteen-floor tower or a three-floor tower
-It should be clear how much pets contribute to a player's in-tower experience - currently I don't know whether pets's stats are disabled like other equipment, and how many of their may-casts are active in the tower, but I know at least that their healing may-casts are available despite the tower's purpose seemingly being to disable prepared combat benefits

But, most importantly, I would like for it to be visible which rank band we are in for final rewards! Currently my rank is simply displayed as ">999", but as the 1001-2500 and 2501-5000 bands have greatly different rewards (2501+ gets no pet!), I would really like to aim to be in 1001-2500 at least, so I would greatly appreciate being able to see my current overall rank or at least the exact band I'm in!

Thank you again for the event!,
Uune

Survivor
May 24, 2009
1
I think one thing thats very problematic is that I can't buy the transmute spells during the event. I've spent at least 200k gold just repeating the fourth stage over and over, yet I still don't have enough fire runes for the second tier of Hand of Fate.

After reading the wiki, it had said that she would be found in the library with all the transmutes I need. But was then told by helpful people that she is only present BEFORE the event. Isn't this kind of counterproductive? Is there anyway you can re-add Kera?

Survivor
Dec 23, 2009
6
I know a lot of people love this event and there are a lot of things to praise about it, however there are intrinsic flaws in the structure of it. The way it is able to put players of any level on the same playing field makes it a fair experience, something to consider participating in for players of any strength. The effort people put into preparing for the Deckathalon makes it feel like a real school event such as a triathalon, hence the name. Its a very clever idea, and so is the idea of up-gradable wands, despite the stats on said wand being fairly unimpressive. The wands have very nice models and I appreciate that, but it does take a fair amount of grinding the Deckathalon to get to a point at which you have all of the materials necessary to get it maxed. That brings me to my main point.

Once you figure out the formula to beat the stages and maximize your point gain, it is a fairly easy task. However, at this point, skill and strategy are placed aside for time investment. If you were limited to four credits a day and solely that, then strategy would be much more important to make the best out of your credits. However the fact that you can buy credits, for cheap might I add, creates a competition in which the top contenders are the people who have spent the most time on the game. If people can just spend as much time as they want grinding the Deckathalon, then those who don't have as much available time to play the game get shoved to the side. An hour is something most people have to play the game at least. In that time, all four credits can be used and you can make a contribution to your score. However, there are some people that have 15+ available hours and will willingly spend it in the Deckathalon in order to take top place. It doesn't seem fair to those who can't.

It would be an easy fix for a new system in the game. Limiting players to four credits a day, or limiting their ability to purchase credits would very quickly shift the focus from time investment back to strategy and skill. Another thing to address would be the creation of a simple formula to beating the stage easily to farm points. This can be rectified by slightly procedurally generating the enemies you fight. Creating a deck for multiple circumstances increases the player's range of strategies to use. Without knowing exactly what your enemy would be likely to use or their AI's strategy in the fight, it forces the player to be more strategic and adaptable, truly showcasing the abilities of the wizards of this community. Without a fix, there is simply no reason to participate in the Deckathalon besides grinding for those cool Hands of Fate skins. Unless you are willing to spend day after day to keep your rank, there is no reason to try to get leaderboard rewards. The main disappointment I have is with the purchasing of credits, they might as well not limit us at all.

Delver
Aug 10, 2009
224
I thoroughly enjoyed the first official Ice Deckathalon in Live Realm (once I got the hang of it ).

I almost have all of the reagents that are required for crafting the Freezing Hands of Fate. I'm just missing a few Improvement Runes, Strengthening Runes, Superior Ice Runes, and whatever Enhanced Ice Runes (that I'm not able to transmute). I (as well as other players who weren't able to participate as much in the Deckathalon due to other matters) would greatly appreciate a way to transmute (or another source to farm) above runes.

Defender
Mar 16, 2009
159
Ok, with the first Deckathalon on live realm finally over, I can give my final thoughts on this. Finished 6th place btw.

Despite my earlier posts about how brutal this event is on a competitive level in terms of time and gold (it still is), I actually think that this was a wonderful event, at least for people who weren't staying up forever just to get a high rank. I really liked the battles that weren't the regular ol' blade-up-and-aoe kind, though those were still somewhat present here. I'm also impressed by how this event took a ton of treasure cards that were not good, and suddenly made them good. Who knew that I would end up wanting Sunbird TC? I thoroughly enjoyed the theorycrafting behind figuring out the fastest way to earn points, as well as the cheapest way of obtaining points (both with and without crafting).

I don't know if you had added it during one of the maintenance sessions last week or if it had always been available and I had simply missed it, but thank you so very much for adding that Fireblade recipe. This recipe probably saved my sanity, and I'm only being slightly hyperbolic here. Judging by how low my Balance Runes are compared to my Ice and Storm Runes, I figure I have crafted somewhere between 800 and 1000 Fireblades for this event. By spending runes, I've managed to save around 350,000 gold (and for wizards who don't have access to a librarian who sells trap TC, this goes up to 800,000 to even a million gold in savings). Changing the way ranking works will also reduce this cost immensely because you're no longer spending 16 to 20 hours a day farming - another wonderful reason for it to change. :)

I may probably be too exhausted to competitively compete in the next Deckathalon when it comes around, even if competitive ranking is changed for the better, but I'm still looking forward to playing it at a much more casual level.

Survivor
Aug 26, 2015
45
Remove tc sun spell is not the solution. Hi again wizards.
Why not improve the quality of the game with more tc cards?
Example add forest lord tc in arcanum or extraordinary tc. Why balance tc is remove all sun spells?
No sense, if sun tc is removed next deckathlon, i have a question, for what we have tc vendor?. Explain it.
Oh unbalance deckathlon?,add crafting recipes for tc cards, or only add drops tc in the event.
Deckathlon is a event limited a week, no pvp or pve.
I do not want farm or use energy for i have tc cards, really?. No fun i farm tc for then i use tcs in a boss, and l lose tc because oh enemy cast tower shield or auras defense.
Obtain tc should be better, please allow obtain too tc from crafting, tc vendors and drops in deckathlon.
Yes members and crowns players have advantaje, because this add sun crafting tc in the event deckathlon.
I like think they listen your community.
Thanks.

Hero
Sep 07, 2011
761
Fun: ease of entry. Player level doesn't matter, anyone can do it with cards from the library.

Not fun: Very few of us will ever get high rank rewards, as you'd have to play 8 - 12 hours per day during the event to stay high on the leader board. Please consider changing to reward achievement, not rote grinding.

Survivor
Jul 18, 2011
15
I think the deckathalon is a great way for players of all levels to be on a (somewhat) equal playing-field. That being said, however, I do have 2 recommendations:

- I wish that players got back their TCs after their run was over. This would make it easier for lower-level players (without any high-level accounts) to more easily complete multiple runs. This isn't that important to me, but it's a minor change that I think would be beneficial.

- What I do think needs to change is both the top-tier reward structure. I know from the beginning of the ice deckathalon that there was no way I was going to make top 10 and get the ice pet. Though I'm interested in the game/event, there was no way I was going to grind 12 hours a day, every day. This turned me off from the whole event. Especially when marketed as a game for families and children, I think it is terribly irresponsible to give an exclusive, OP pet only to those who play for incredibly unhealthy amounts of time each day. I really like the idea of competition and even exclusive rewards. But I think you should be rewarding skill. I really hope you change the deckathalons in this way. I don't think encouraging children to play video games for 12 hours a day should be a part of this wonderful game

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