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Druid...

AuthorMessage
Delver
Mar 09, 2018
260
Would like to preface this by saying I've seen zero posts asking for Satharilith to be nerfed and only a few asking for Devourer to be nerfed [even though I definitely think his damage could be toned down...].

The Renegade Druid has 175,000 health, is storm, and summons three minions that can't be killed. A rain of fire strategy seems to work here, but when the Sentinel effect decides it's not gonna absorb the right amount of damage and deal it all to the druid then we have a problem. It wouldn't be all bad if his health was halved and made 87,500 instead of the current 175k.

Keeping this short so here are my proposals:

Halve his health
Remove bugs entirely from Druid's spells, if you want to leave a shadow AOE in just give him like Nested or something
Remove bugs entirely from the Moon minion's spells
Configure it like you did with Darkmoor where the wizard team goes first every time, it's physically impossible to do when the star minion gets a random shad from first and unloads an eleven-pip snowball barrage that kills you the turn you hit
Maybe tone down his damage a bit

Armiger
Dec 09, 2008
2075
JewelKI on Mar 1, 2020 wrote:
Would like to preface this by saying I've seen zero posts asking for Satharilith to be nerfed and only a few asking for Devourer to be nerfed [even though I definitely think his damage could be toned down...].

The Renegade Druid has 175,000 health, is storm, and summons three minions that can't be killed. A rain of fire strategy seems to work here, but when the Sentinel effect decides it's not gonna absorb the right amount of damage and deal it all to the druid then we have a problem. It wouldn't be all bad if his health was halved and made 87,500 instead of the current 175k.

Keeping this short so here are my proposals:

Halve his health
Remove bugs entirely from Druid's spells, if you want to leave a shadow AOE in just give him like Nested or something
Remove bugs entirely from the Moon minion's spells
Configure it like you did with Darkmoor where the wizard team goes first every time, it's physically impossible to do when the star minion gets a random shad from first and unloads an eleven-pip snowball barrage that kills you the turn you hit
Maybe tone down his damage a bit
I'd be curious to hear what everyone thinks of these change proposals too. Thanks JewelKI for sharing!

Defender
Jun 10, 2012
198
Nerfing the Druid yeah, but I'm not totally ok:

- half life that's a classical for nerf so yeah

-remove bugs completely not from the main boss, thats a storm you can't replace bugs by another school spell but maybe reduce the probability he cast it and a weaker version. Ye from the minion, replaced by 7 pip siren (remove 1 blade and -35% accuracy)
And finally the damage ... thats a storm no, what remain if we lose our damages?

The 3 bosses are the worst plague for the spiral and stand in term of power between Morganthe and the Titans. If you remember Storm was only awake cuz the paradox chain still charged him so he were weaken at, let suppose, 30% of his true power. The Druid, salarilith and the Devourer must stay stronger than him.

So nerfing the druid ( as any other bosses in fact) by all ways (health/damage/spells/cheats)is too much(hello Rat).
If he get less health you will need less blades so that reduce the risk of a bad luck bugs before the hit and if the moon minion don't get bugs that reduce by 2 the risk.
And if there is no way to remove blades why did aegis spell exist?

Kane GoldenFlame;New storm titan

Survivor
Aug 19, 2010
8
JewelKI on Mar 1, 2020 wrote:
Would like to preface this by saying I've seen zero posts asking for Satharilith to be nerfed and only a few asking for Devourer to be nerfed [even though I definitely think his damage could be toned down...].

The Renegade Druid has 175,000 health, is storm, and summons three minions that can't be killed. A rain of fire strategy seems to work here, but when the Sentinel effect decides it's not gonna absorb the right amount of damage and deal it all to the druid then we have a problem. It wouldn't be all bad if his health was halved and made 87,500 instead of the current 175k.

Keeping this short so here are my proposals:

Halve his health
Remove bugs entirely from Druid's spells, if you want to leave a shadow AOE in just give him like Nested or something
Remove bugs entirely from the Moon minion's spells
Configure it like you did with Darkmoor where the wizard team goes first every time, it's physically impossible to do when the star minion gets a random shad from first and unloads an eleven-pip snowball barrage that kills you the turn you hit
Maybe tone down his damage a bit
Okay, so, I see what you mean but I'm a firm believer in the challenge here. I personally think the only really good changes for this particular battle, (The druid). Half his health would be nice, or at least bring it down to 100k. Removing bugs isn't necessary and I think that removes the actual challenge of the game... I very much agree with making it so the 3 catacombs boss battles have the players go first, good call on it. But Satharilith doesn't need to be nerfed, it's completely doable and really, really easy.

That said, I agree with the halfing health on Druid, and configuring the battle so players go first always, but I'm gonna be a firm one to say a no on removing bugs from the druid. Maybe take it away from the moon minion entirely, sure, I'd let that one pass. But not from the druid. It's meant to be hard, it's meant to be taken seriously and not as something you can expect to win on the first or even fourth battle, both the Druid and the Devourer are meant to make you work for it and I believe it should certainly stay that way. Tone down some of the Devourer's damage wouldn't be a stretch but aside from that, certainly leave that battle alone. It's meant to make it feel like a real reward for finishing that boss. It's meant to make you proud of getting through him. So it should remain that way.

That said, It's just my opinion and thoughts on your proposals. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it doesn't mean I don't have a point. In the end, just remember to have fun with it!

Thank you ~

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
Not sure what you people are referring to in referencing a challenge. If you have to hit before the second round to win and the boss and his minions are spawned for a seventh or eighth round hit, then how is being dead challenging? Reduce the enemy pip count to a second or third round hit probability and cut the damage out by say 25%. Give the players a chance to get a hitter configured to at least hit something that has 175000 hp that doesn't need a well geared healer by the second round.

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
It is impossible to win when the enemies are able to one shot every player in any given round. maybe might win one in some infinitely random number only because of some lucky miracle that caused them not to use a max pip tempest, a vengeance enhanced bugs or lulu, or a max pip vengeance penguins. Do they even have spells smaller than these in their decks. if i wanted to find the fastest method to wipe out any random group of players, those are the spells i would use on the first round of availability which these enemies do. Tone it down a lot so the players can take a few hits before they are all dead. They need to blade a player with a few blades before they have any chance of doing moderate damage and this fight literally denies them that time. Dial down the outgoing 25% to 50% and incorporate the dragoon gear stats so it aids the players in the fights. getting dragoon gear that has no impact on the fight whatsoever is ludicrous.

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
After looking at hints for the fight, those spells plus rain of fire are pretty much all these enemies use and have. It's not a wonder that so few people can pass it

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
why not go back to making dungeons like king Zeus in tartarus. if the team has the ability for a fast kill then let them take on the challenge and do it. Don't make every new fight so challenging that only a handful of people can actually complete it without having to get so angry and frustrated that they won't ever attempt it again. who wants to be that defeated in a quest mission. If the team fails the challenge timer, then put the fight into some other lesser mode that doesn't make it so frustrating. That goes for all fights. don't dumb them down so much that they get boring but don't make them so hard that only a few people can complete them. How will we ever get to new worlds if you start gating them behind fights like these?

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
I know that a that this fight can be done with almost any wizard that can set a "hit-all over-time" as long as their group members or of the same class type as them (spirit or elemental types) so they can support them with blades.
Not all wizards have access to pigsie, so low pip heals are not reliable. You have designed a fight that seems to be wanting of a fire wizard for their "Rain of Fire" spell and at least a life wizard for access to their critical "pigsie" heals.
Most fights like these almost always demand a death wizard for their "bad-juju" spell and a storm wizard helps with the dispels on the boss and the moon minion. So, the optimum team compliment for this fight is fire, life, storm, and death. How often do you find teams that are of those specific schools. now, in trying to workaround the deficiencies, you penalize the players with ridiculously hard hitting minions which almost forces them to not want to run this fight without optimum team compliment. That's what you need to sort out in this fight. How does a team that is not optimized fight this and win without pulling their hair out because you have a lot of players that run other school wizards and don't always have access to optimized runs. Start giving access to more opportunities for the pigsie spell since you most likely have generated the base revenue from the rarity of this spell already.

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
Let me put it another way: Everybody expects a boss to hit with hard hitting spells especially a boss with 175000 hp. He has a right to be mean, that's his job. His minions on the other hand, don't necessarily have that right, at least not minions with 1 health. the first position on the sigil is the tanking position because that's how you have taught us to play this game but you wipe that mentality away because then you give a boss fight with 1 hp minions hit-all spells that do massive damage and are used 90% of the time. so, you step on several of your own algorithms in the design of this fight. There aren't enough heals that can support a team where everybody is taking damage and that damage is almost always punishing. This has been a trend in your game for the past several end-area boss fights. You make them so punishing that only a handful of people can actually clear them. everybody else that's cleared them were just lucky enough to get lucky one time and they swear that they will never do it again after they finally win making it harder for later players to also manage to win. Go back to the king zues methodology and make so the challenge part of the fight is an elective and not a requirement.

Explorer
Oct 15, 2008
68
Stormwind 8108 on Mar 5, 2020 wrote:
Nerfing the Druid yeah, but I'm not totally ok:

- half life that's a classical for nerf so yeah

-remove bugs completely not from the main boss, thats a storm you can't replace bugs by another school spell but maybe reduce the probability he cast it and a weaker version. Ye from the minion, replaced by 7 pip siren (remove 1 blade and -35% accuracy)
And finally the damage ... thats a storm no, what remain if we lose our damages?

The 3 bosses are the worst plague for the spiral and stand in term of power between Morganthe and the Titans. If you remember Storm was only awake cuz the paradox chain still charged him so he were weaken at, let suppose, 30% of his true power. The Druid, salarilith and the Devourer must stay stronger than him.

So nerfing the druid ( as any other bosses in fact) by all ways (health/damage/spells/cheats)is too much(hello Rat).
If he get less health you will need less blades so that reduce the risk of a bad luck bugs before the hit and if the moon minion don't get bugs that reduce by 2 the risk.
And if there is no way to remove blades why did aegis spell exist?

Kane GoldenFlame;New storm titan
aegis is great but can't be used on treasure cards spells or otherwise enchanted spells and any player that's is gonna hit needs all these variations of blade spells to do any significant amount of damage. the issue isn't so much with the boss itself but more so with his minions. they are doing significantly more damage than the boss is doing by far. minions are supposed to help the boss nibble away at player health not do significant damage with each hit. where we need blades and traps to do any damage worth noting, these bosses and minions do all that same damage with one balance blade and they tend to hit together so,we take 2000 points from one minion, then the next and the next, a storm wizard cannot stand next to an ice wizard who might be able to take some of those hits. the storm will die every time. even fire will succumb to that onslaught. every minion is doing one hit-all each turn rather than just hitting whoever is standing on the first position or whoever has threat. all players can not be tanks yet they are expecting every player to be a tank. that's a high expectation for all the storm wizards out there. and the dragoon gear doesn't even offer enough defense to mitigate some of this damage which is odd all by itself.

Survivor
Feb 21, 2010
36
After seeing this fight for the seventh time and understanding the mechanics a bit better. it baffles me why you would have two enemies in this fight with the ability to completely remove all blades from the players. there is no chance at defeating this fight without blades and stocking two or three sets almost ensures that the player will not see the hits they need in a timely manner. At least put some conditions on when they can deploy the spell or something.

Survivor
Feb 21, 2010
36
completely, utterly wiped out the entire team by the second round using an over-powered storm lord and a bugs and neither had any blades set for that amount of damage. 12000 points in two rounds. who are you intending to stand and take those kinds of hits?

Survivor
Feb 21, 2010
36
today, the entire team was wiped out by a critical tempest that needed no blades. it did 8500 points damage and left nobody standing. that happened in the third round well before the fire guy had an opportunity to get enough blades set and rain of fire deployed for the tick. All you death wizards need to learn how to use your wards and pull down this damage to a somewhat tolerable level. it's not a perfect solution but it is better than taking a walloping hit that kills everybody.

Delver
Mar 09, 2018
260
Kitboone on Mar 6, 2020 wrote:
Okay, so, I see what you mean but I'm a firm believer in the challenge here. I personally think the only really good changes for this particular battle, (The druid). Half his health would be nice, or at least bring it down to 100k. Removing bugs isn't necessary and I think that removes the actual challenge of the game... I very much agree with making it so the 3 catacombs boss battles have the players go first, good call on it. But Satharilith doesn't need to be nerfed, it's completely doable and really, really easy.

That said, I agree with the halfing health on Druid, and configuring the battle so players go first always, but I'm gonna be a firm one to say a no on removing bugs from the druid. Maybe take it away from the moon minion entirely, sure, I'd let that one pass. But not from the druid. It's meant to be hard, it's meant to be taken seriously and not as something you can expect to win on the first or even fourth battle, both the Druid and the Devourer are meant to make you work for it and I believe it should certainly stay that way. Tone down some of the Devourer's damage wouldn't be a stretch but aside from that, certainly leave that battle alone. It's meant to make it feel like a real reward for finishing that boss. It's meant to make you proud of getting through him. So it should remain that way.

That said, It's just my opinion and thoughts on your proposals. That doesn't mean I'm right, but it doesn't mean I don't have a point. In the end, just remember to have fun with it!

Thank you ~
alr so I'm coming back to this thread and figured there'd be an elitist who tries to say reducing 2 ppl to spamming dispels & juju is ok

at the moment it's dumb hard to keep dispels on two enemies at once to prevent them from using bugs, especially when they have quicken. removing it from one is alright but you still need to dispel spam the boss in order to make sure all your blades don't get nuked

if you think the druid is in any way balanced, please refer to my comment about how the star minion cast an 11 pip snowball barrage and one-shot our entire team, which includes my ice with nearly 9k health

Survivor
Feb 21, 2010
36
Death wizards have 40% and 20% wards that can be used to pull down these numbers. i agree that having two enemies with bugs is overkill. I also agree that their outgoing damage and pierce is awful high for a single hp minion. the boss can do that because he's the boss but not 1 hp minions. the fight needs to be more realistically aligned but i am also of the opinion that these types of fights need to be gold key bosses and not so much part of the main story line. let the story line bosses drop gold keys then those can be used to chase the gold key bosses gear drops.

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
JewelKI on Apr 14, 2020 wrote:
alr so I'm coming back to this thread and figured there'd be an elitist who tries to say reducing 2 ppl to spamming dispels & juju is ok

at the moment it's dumb hard to keep dispels on two enemies at once to prevent them from using bugs, especially when they have quicken. removing it from one is alright but you still need to dispel spam the boss in order to make sure all your blades don't get nuked

if you think the druid is in any way balanced, please refer to my comment about how the star minion cast an 11 pip snowball barrage and one-shot our entire team, which includes my ice with nearly 9k health
As opposed to spamming blades and feints? I get that this boss is challenging- it is meant to be. 90% of Wizard101 bosses follow the exact same formula- blade spam, feint spam and then burst damage hit. This is one of the few bosses that mixes up that formula and forces players to actively use defensive measures.

Normally if this was in a storyline main area I would agree with the calls for a nerf. However this is in a side area, meant to offer challenge to those who want it. There are precious few areas like that in the game for max level players.

Survivor
Jun 23, 2013
13
Hi all,

I wonder why there are not MORE posts on this subject... except it's maybe so many people having trouble with the storm titan they are not making it to the druid?

So we are on our third run right now. And i can't help but think, why am i a max wizard if the bosses keep getting harder? Why am i no longer leveling up? See, my technical prowess isn't any better... some how i keep bumbling through and beating bosses (solo'd the storm titan after team after team fell out) yet these bosses here are LUDICROUISLY difficult.... i am still level 130, not getting more buff at all.

I think beyond all the cheats that these bosses have, this is a root issue. If my character could keep apace, maybe i would have a decent chance? Why CAN'T i keep leveling up to say 10 levels above the Druid, and then come back and wipe the floor with him? If I'm doing the work to level up by questing anf helping others, why can't i be Conan buff and come back and take out these guys?

Maybe something to think about?

Survivor
Jun 23, 2013
13
Eric Stormbringer on Apr 15, 2020 wrote:
As opposed to spamming blades and feints? I get that this boss is challenging- it is meant to be. 90% of Wizard101 bosses follow the exact same formula- blade spam, feint spam and then burst damage hit. This is one of the few bosses that mixes up that formula and forces players to actively use defensive measures.

Normally if this was in a storyline main area I would agree with the calls for a nerf. However this is in a side area, meant to offer challenge to those who want it. There are precious few areas like that in the game for max level players.
Hi Eric,

So this isn't the main storyline? So what IS the main storyline then? This is the only quest i have left right now?

Astrologist
Dec 16, 2009
1035
zillaniko1 on May 11, 2020 wrote:
Hi Eric,

So this isn't the main storyline? So what IS the main storyline then? This is the only quest i have left right now?
Hi, the current main storyline has finished at Empyrea. The Catacombs is a side area that explores some interesting wizard city lore while also offering the opportunity to craft some of the best gear in game.